OT: The worst superhero ever...

[GreenCloudCLF]

You know, I've never really been a fan of Superman. A character with ever ability imaginable just doesn't thrill me...For all intents and purposes he is immortal (technically he did die once, but they brought him back).

But what really gets me is his costume. He wears glasses when he's "normal" and takes them off to be Superman.

So I have a question: What happens when Superman gets a smudge on his glasses and needs to take them off to wipe them? Can;t people see he is Superman?

[splinter]

He's got super speed. He can take his glasses off, wipe them, and put them back on his face before anyone even notices.

Duh.:D

[Judge Pen]

He never cleans his glasses. He justs looks through the smudge with his X-Ray vision.

The thing that is interesting about Superman, that hasn't been explored in the films (I don't watch the T.V. shows much nor do I read comics) is the choices he makes. What kind of temptation exists for a man who could be God to a world, but yet choses to serve humanity? I'd like to see that played out more in the new movie. The Donner movies deal with that theme, but steer clear of any real dark side. Isn't that interesting for you?

[SimonM]

The thing that is interesting about Superman, that hasn't been explored in the films (I don't watch the T.V. shows much nor do I read comics) is the choices he makes. What kind of temptation exists for a man who could be God to a world, but yet choses to serve humanity?

Pen: watch Smallville. The juxtaposition between the choices of Clark and Lex is a major part of the series. And both of them are represented as men who (for different reasons) have massive power compared to those around them.

[Judge Pen]

Pen: watch Smallville. The juxtaposition between the choices of Clark and Lex is a major part of the series. And both of them are represented as men who (for different reasons) have massive power compared to those around them.

I really lost interest in the series early. They are out on DVD. When does it start to get good? Maybe I'll pick it up from there.

As for GCCLF's first post, you have to consider the histroical perspective of Superman's origins. One who choses the American way of life at a time when the country needed a strong here. He was American propoganda for the Depression era nation.

[SimonM]

Each season gets progressively better as the characters mature.

Lana is still a dumb, annoying little girl but the clark/lex dynamic gets really good in seasons 3 & 4.

I'd say if you are going to watch only part of the series watch seasons 3, 4 and 5.

The season 5 episode "Lexmas" is EXACTLY about what you are talking about.

[Chief Fox]

I'm sure you guys have seen Kill Bill part 2. The part were Bill talks about superman was an interesting take on how superman sees humanity. Basically week an unable to take care of itself.

[Judge Pen]

I'm sure you guys have seen Kill Bill part 2. The part were Bill talks about superman was an interesting take on how superman sees humanity. Basically week an unable to take care of itself.

I liked that dialouge, but I thought it was out of place for Bill's character.

[David Jamieson]

I really lost interest in the series early. They are out on DVD. When does it start to get good? Maybe I'll pick it up from there.

As for GCCLF's first post, you have to consider the histroical perspective of Superman's origins. One who choses the American way of life at a time when the country needed a strong here. He was American propoganda for the Depression era nation.


What's interesting is that he was created by a canadian before that canadian got to america.

Anyway, he represents an ideal, a neitzche like super man! lol the galactic man. a hero who does the right thing. A person who uses power responsibily. YOu know, all those things that regular humans are not. :p

p.s don't lay no kirkegaard on me

[PangQuan]

(technically he did die once, but they brought him back).

actually (warning: nerd knowledge coming)

he never died. he simply depleted himself of his energy reserves and was stored under ground in a grave, thus making it impossible to recharge his energy using earths yellow sun. He was sleeping.

[@PLUGO]

IS that he's pretty much the FIRST superhero. Sure characters like THE PHANTOM, DOC SAMPSON and THE SHADOW saw print before that issue of Action Comics but the collection of concepts that have been loosely associated with the "super hero" first came together with SUPERMAN. Yes that character is a sort of god... or perhaps more accurately, a sort of fallen angel. I remember coming across an essay that made reference to his Kryptonian name, Kal-EL, and its similarity to many of the Angels named in Jewish scripture which end with an EL; Raphael, Michael, Gabriael, Azrael, etc.

So in a sense the story of superman could be read as an allegory for anangel amongst humans. Some would cast superman as a sort of "Christ" figure, but to loosely quote a current superman writer: "what would modern day religion look like if God rocketed his only son to earth to save him from the distruction of Heaven?" Along these lines Judge's Pen is spot on about the interest being more strongly rooted in his choices rather than his "powers."

Readers and writers seem to have generally forgotten that over the course of 70 plus years of publishing his core "powers" have changed quite often. He didn't always fly; hence the "leap a tall building in a single bound." The same is true for that character's design as well. (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/comics.php?topic=articles/the-s-story) Take a look at what he used to sport. (http://superman.ws/Costumes/S.php)

Still, writers have gotten a bit superficial in their need to continually "up" the stakes with stronger and stronger villains. Or as was done in the 80's, make superman "more realistic" with a specific set of abilities and limitations. The key to superman's dramatic potential (right; this is a comicboook character we're talking about here) is not the SUPER part of SUPERMAN, but the MAN part of SUPERMAN.

Recently DC comics have decided to relaunch a new Superman comic All Star Superman (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=4400). The goal of that particular book is to sort of detach the character from the DC comics mainstream and present it with-in the context of its iconic nature. Not everyone reads comics and still fewer read superman comics, but most everyone has some sort of idea about Superman, based of the movies or the Black and white series or the cartoons or whatever. This comics seeks to tap into all or any of that.

I'd recommend it to anyone, Old reader or new who wants to check out superman with-out any of the baggage associated with comics these days. No mega crossovers or secret twists based on some obscure character mention on page 5 of some obscure comic spin-off. Just a good, fun and colorful comic with great art and writing.

[GeneChing]

Raphael = healed by god
Michael = like god
Gabriel = man of god
Azrael = whom god helps

The aspect that always bothered me was the whole secret-identity/love-interest thing. Spiderman was worse that way. Just tell Mary Jane or Lois or whoever who the hell you are. Don't give me that whole 'protect them from villains if they remain naive" rap. I mean it's not like Lois or MJ escaped the damsel in distress fate. It just reeked of this nerdy "if only she know who I really was" attitude. Come on, it's spidey, it's the man of steel (and woman of tissue). Just be honest. The only secret identity that worked for me was Batman, and that was just because of the nature of that particular character. OK, ok, I accepted the Diana Prince thing too, but for entirely different reasons.

As for the glasses, if I could accept that a man could fly, or secrete webs, or whatever, I could easily accept the glasses thing.

[Judge Pen]

It just reeked of this nerdy "if only she know who I really was" attitude.

You have to cater to your market. :p

[Chief Fox]

... if I could accept that a man could fly...
So how do you think that Superman has the ability to fly?

The four things that come into play in flight are thrust, lift, drag and weight.

A bird flys because it is very light and very steamlined. The thrust and lift come from the wings and tail feathers.

A plane flys also because they are light and streamlined. The thrust comes from the engines and the lift comes from the shape of the wings.

So how does Superman fly. As I understand it, he is extremely dense. He's not streamlined especially with that cape flapping around. There is no thrust unless he has extremely powerful ****s and there is no lift.

My guess. ESP. He's got such a powerful mind, he can levitate.

[Judge Pen]

My guess. ESP. He's got such a powerful mind, he can levitate.

Wouldn't that be telekinesis? If that's true, why can't he move other objects with his mind?

[@PLUGO]

All Star Superman (or ASS) is addressing the "Secret Identity" aspect of Superman and Lois in an interesting manner. Currently Lois and Clark are actually married, (so are Spiderman and Mary Jane so how's that for wish fulfilment there Gene?) IIRC this happened after Clark's brush with death.

The premise behind the Clark->Lois->Superman triangle went something like this: Clark Kent wants to be loved by Lois for who he was rather than for being Superman (Superman is actually Clark's secret Identity which allows Clark to do all the things he would normally seek to do). Lois has a huge infatuation with Superman and as a result tends to compare bumbling Clark to that seemingly impossible standard. Superman would then disregard Lois's interest in hopes that she would eventually see those same characteristics in Clark (strength, compassion, kindness, small town values etc...). How effective this rationalization of that classic adolescent fantasy is, depends on the writer.

For your amusement and edification I present to you the SUPERMAN IS A D*CK website (http://www.nationallampoon.com/supermanisa****/).

As for the rational for his Flight,amongst other powers, it depends on when you're reading. Back in the 80's it would be said that he sort of nullified Gravity by force of will... So, he would actually be able to lift greater weights when flying then when standing (this also meant he could fly a sinking ship out of harm's way with-out it cracking in half or him punching right through it). Allot of the 80's logic was indeed based on Clark having Telekinetic abilities.

These day his powers are generally written as Kryptonians having existed in a "higher plane of reality" and the destruction of their planet forced the baby Kal-EL to crash land on a lower plane of reality; earth. As a Kryptonian he could in essence disregard any law of physics he chooses. However, as Clark Kent, he's limited by a very human upbringing and tends to only manifest "powers" as needed.

[SimonM]

These day his powers are generally written as Kryptonians having existed in a "higher plane of reality" and the destruction of their planet forced the baby Kal-EL to crash land on a lower plane of reality; earth. As a Kryptonian he could in essence disregard any law of physics he chooses. However, as Clark Kent, he's limited by a very human upbringing and tends to only manifest "powers" as needed.

That's some good crack the writers are smoking these days ain't it?

[Li Kao]

Design,

Here is the link for the original page hosting the images shown at the link you provided. Not sure if you have seen it yet, but if not, check it out. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time (perhaps because I'm a former comic book junkie myself) Note: for link to work, you have to replace the astericks with Richard's nickname (hope this is okay to post Gene)

http://www.super****ery.com/galleries.html

I have watched Smallville since it's inception and while it has a teen beat vibe to it, I am still hooked. I agree that it has picked up some steam since the first couple of seasons as the most captivating aspect of the show is the relationship between Clark and Lex. Lately, there has been a lot of tension in that area as they slowly but surely are drifting apart and beginning to embrace their respective destinies that we all know ... kinda like watching these last few Star Wars movies: you knew who the characters would eventually become to be, but it was interesting to see the choices and circumstances that led them on that path.

SimonM -- I agree with your overall assessment of Smallville too, but I didn't care for the Lexmas episode. To me, it felt like a feel-good filler episode (kinda like the Krypto episode) that presented an interesting scenario but didn't really advance the current storyline in any way. I'm also not to crazy about the whole Jonathan Kent vs. Lex Luthor political race as of late, but I still really enjoy the show and watch it faithfully every week.

[SimonM]

I understand where you are coming from RE: the Lexmas episode and had it focussed on the Clark / Chloe / Santa plot more I'd agree. However Lex's little failed Christmas Carol routine really drove home what is going on within the man who eventually becomes one of the most iconic villains of comic books in a way that kept him quite human.

[SimonM]

I have just been looking at that super****ery.com site. That is one of the greatest computerized time-wasters since tetris!

[WanderingMonk]

simonM

out of curosity, is smallville on tv in China or do you "import" it via download or something?

[GreenCloudCLF]

The current (or one of the current) Superboys is a clone of Superman (and I think LEx also, but not sure) and he has the power of "tactile telekenesis". This means whatever he touches he can move, so insted of actually lifting a tank with strength, he touches it and uses his mind.

Perhaps Superman is similiar.

[@PLUGO]

Spot on with the current Superboy.

He started off as a "clone" combining the DNA of Clark and LEX. His "tactile telekenesis" was based on the character guide John Byrne developed when he was hired to restart the Superman line of comics back in the early 80's. Back then all of Superman's powers were prettymuch based on that model but could not be explained as such.

By the 90's Superman had not only become more powerful (again) but had been killed. The Superboy concept was . . . ah, resurected using the "tactile telekenesis" explisitly. In the past couple of year it's been reveal that Lex Luther planted various subliminal suggestions that caused Superboy to Shave his head and act like a sort of Villian. In the ensueing conflict he was freed of those suggestions given a good dose of angst and has since developed more Kryptonian abilities.

Even more recently the "original Superboy" has returned, from outside of current continuity, seeking to oust Conner Kent (the clone Superboy). This resulted in a BLOODY battle, various deaths and other world shattering evens. . . .

So yes indeed SimonM, I dunno what they're smoking in those comic publishing offices, but it ain't Moxa.

[GeneChing]

A friend just alerted me to this: Spiderman Japonês (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZLUxlKHsuA)

[Jimbo]

I heard that Superman can fly because the gravity on Krypton was supposed to be much heavier than Earth's; that on Krypton he would be a normal man, but because he was designed for that heavier environment, he has these powers on this planet. Also why Kryptonite drains his powers.

I never really got into the DC characters. Back in the late '60s and '70s I used to like the Marvel comics. And my fave back then was always the Hulk. I liked the fact he could be a 'hero' sometimes and then turn around and be the villain at the drop of a hat. Also, some of the old Werewolf by Night and Tomb of Dracula series were quite dark and more mature, which I liked.

[@PLUGO]

Superman has also flown in outer space as well as on other planets. Early on in Superman's continuity (40's-50's?) he couldn't fly and this gravity distance allowed extreme jumping. Like what the Hulk does.

Since then, Superman's ability to fly has been explained a number of ways. I think there's even a book out there about the Physics of Superman; that might even be the title. Back in the 60's flight was just flight. In the 80's he was using his mind to shut the gravity off, as a result he could lift more when he flew than while standing on the ground. Plus he wouldn't fly right through the center of an oil tanker while trying to lift it off the rocks it washed up upon. After crimping the hole in its hull of course.

These days GREEN Krytonite radiation forces the solar radiation out of Superman's cells. This drains him of power. Afterwards, the radiation poisons him, too death. Black Krytonite was recently discovered (http://cgi.ebay.com/All-Star-Superman-4-Grant-Morrison-Frank-Quitely_W0QQitemZ250092640016QQcmdZViewItem) and it seems to turn him evil.

Marvel's Tomb of Dracula was indeed some classic stuff. The series has been recently collected in hardcover format. Marvel comics has been getting more into their horror side with tons of Zombies as well as BLADE and other lesser known characters.

But what you might be interested in is WORLD WAR HULK. Recently exiled to a planet where he's not the strongest there is he's made himself their warlord. Now Hulk is returning to earth with an army and ANGRY. He's out for revenge on those who sent him away, they include Iron Man, Mr Fantastic and a few other Marvel big shots.

[Li Kao]

Here is a link for a brief World War Hulk teaser: http://www.marvel.com/videos/World_War_Hulk_Teaser

Personally, I really like the whole idea of the story, and hopefully ole Jade Jaws opens a can of whoop-a s s on the rest of the Marvel pantheon -- should be like an old Godzilla movie, but instead of stomping through Tokyo, the Hulk takes on the whole planet. Iron Man should of course receive the first beating, as a payback for what happened to Captain America. :D

[Li Kao]

All this talk of Superman and the Hulk reminded me of the old SNL skit called Superman's Funeral. Here's a link to the video, for those who haven't seen it:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2725233. So many funny moments, but my favorite was Chris Farley as the Hulk -- priceless.

[5Animals1Path]

Unless the Hulk can survive open Space, the Sun, or a Black Hole, I gotta give it to Supes. Even if he couldn't out duke him, he'd wing him into something that could. ;)

[Chief Fox]

All this talk of Superman and the Hulk reminded me of the old SNL skit called Superman's Funeral. Here's a link to the video, for those who haven't seen it:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2725233. So many funny moments, but my favorite was Chris Farley as the Hulk -- priceless.

Classic. Thanks for the vid.

[doug maverick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTXRIbQzS4

[ittokaos]

Good Morning,

First, let me say that I think its awesome that we can talk about comic stuff on a kung fu forum.

Anyway, the reason that no one notices that Clark Kent is actually Superman,glasses or no, is because of there own arrogance and preconceived notions.

They see this clumbzy nerd and nothing else. When you think about it. it's kinda sad. If you look throughout the years many people have been thought to be Superman but time and time again Clark is overlooked. Why? Because at the end of the day people just see clark as far too pathetic to be this"godlike" figure that constantly saves the world from it's impending doom.

They see Superman as this Odonis who is without fault. Of course they aren't going to notice the fact ****y Clark looks a lot like their hero when he's sans specs. They can't. He's been built up to much.

I hope this helps.

Sorry about the rant. I've been into comics since I was about 7yrs old.

Have a good one!

WF

[doug maverick]

its a ****ing comic book. and besides that its freaking hilarious that a room full of reporters can't figure out that clark kent is super man.