Reputations....

[Ray Pina]

Man, I've been doing a lot of traveling lately and missed out on all the drama but I find a lot of it is based around "reputations"... someone has built one up, or deserves one based on associations with teachers, groups, styles, etc.

Frankly, I don't think many people in the martial world at large would recognize most of the people on this board aside from Gene, the superstar. However, that aint a big deal. Coach Ross has certainly added to the martial community, at least in NYC (that's saying a lot) and the tri-state area. Knifefighter, he looks tough. He looks like a man of experience who isn't shy with his fists. GreenCloud, sounds like you're throwing down and training guys to do the same.

This is all good, but the thing about reputations is that they are based on past actions, but they can be changed by present and future conduct. You've worked hard to be where you are. Don't ruin it with talk on the net. Train. Get better. Progress your technique. ITeach your students. If you're going to go beat someone, do it.

I say this with respect. You guys aren't kids.

[Knifefighter]

Ray,
I have lots of respect you because you are out there mixing it up, trying to get better and contstantly putting your stuff to the test.

Go to that school, spar with them (especially Green Clown), and see if they actually have any clues about fighting. Let us know if they compete in this upcoming tourney in one of the full contact events and not just a point sparring tag match.

If all that is the affirmative, I'll change my tune.

[CoRWiN]

See if you actually read ray's post you wouldn't refer to my sifu as green clown...

Still missing the point....

[Knifefighter]

As I said, once something is proven to show that I am wrong, I will change my tune.

Looks like it won't be, since your "sifu" is now claiming hip replacement as his latest excuse.

[Jules]

See if you actually read ray's post you wouldn't refer to my sifu as green clown...

Still missing the point....

I think Knife Fighter is maybe a little obsessed with Sifu Gus. He is definitely jealous that Sifu Gus has earned the respect of his students. Ray made a good point and didn't make any personal attacks. Knife Fighter can't let go and can't stop with the pettiness and name calling. His behavior towards Sifu is classic envy from someone who doesn't understand what it is to be respected by others. If you're in 4th grade, I mean.

~~Jules

[Green Cloud]

As I said, once something is proven to show that I am wrong, I will change my tune.

Looks like it won't be, since your "sifu" is now claiming hip replacement as his latest excuse.


First of all I promised gene ching that we would stop this flame war. So if you want to talk about getting together just give me a call. This discussion is over, were in Jean's house so we have to abide by his wishes.

As far as needing a hip replacement, It has nothing to do with age. I've been doing High Impact MA since I was six.

Let's say that after so many kicks the warranty ran out. Please don't take this as a weekness, Just pointing out that maybee the match might be more even between us.

None the less even though we provided much excitement for everyone this is plaid out, so call me and we will discuss it like the Mature men that we are supposed to be.

[SevenStar]

I think Knife Fighter is maybe a little obsessed with Sifu Gus. He is definitely jealous that Sifu Gus has earned the respect of his students. Ray made a good point and didn't make any personal attacks. Knife Fighter can't let go and can't stop with the pettiness and name calling. His behavior towards Sifu is classic envy from someone who doesn't understand what it is to be respected by others. If you're in 4th grade, I mean.

~~Jules

Who cares about envy and respect over the internet? And why would he care about how you two feel about your sifu? As put by jay-z:

"males shouldn't be jealous, that's a female trait..."

Guys tend to have a respect - or lack thereof - for those who do (or don't) put their money where their mouth is. He could really care less about you two and the respect you have for him. He cares about what he's done in the ring. If you're talking about what you can do, you should be able to back it up somehow, preferably with verifiable evidence.

[Jules]

"males shouldn't be jealous, that's a female trait..."


Ahh, I see what you're saying. You're trying to tell me that you're a sexist idiot. I read you loud and clear, and I'll keep it in mind.

~~Jules

[Knifefighter]

Jules,
Why would I be jealous of someone who calls people names, makes death threats, can't spell, and has no evidence of having ever fought or competed?

Actually, there is one thing I am jealous of... his ability to brainwash unsuspecting kids out of their money.

[Green Cloud]

Who cares about envy and respect over the internet? And why would he care about how you two feel about your sifu? As put by jay-z:

"males shouldn't be jealous, that's a female trait..."

Guys tend to have a respect - or lack thereof - for those who do (or don't) put their money where their mouth is. He could really care less about you two and the respect you have for him. He cares about what he's done in the ring. If you're talking about what you can do, you should be able to back it up somehow, preferably with verifiable evidence.


Your rifgt 7 srar this is the internet, I guess I got caught in the drama. I mean realy we all live in different parts of the country, and we all work these chalenges are silly there never gona happen.

I mean really if anyone wants to contact me I am very easy to reach. If there are personal differeces thats what the telephone is for. The weekend is over so I got to go to work and pay the bills.

[WinterPalm]

Hey Ray Pina, did you ever post your videos? I am interested in seeing them.

[Jules]

Jules,
Why would I be jealous of someone who calls people names, makes death threats, can't spell, and has no evidence of having ever fought or competed?

Actually, there is one thing I am jealous of... his ability to brainwash unsuspecting kids out of their money.

Sorry, but you now sound like a skipping CD and I'm bored with you. I'm not fond of pointless repitition, in others, or in myself when others keep purposely dodging the point. You're entitled to hang onto your pettiness, Knife Fighter. Have fun with it, don't let it drive you to an early grave, okay? It's not healthy. Also, it's not good for this forum in the long run.

~~Jules

[GreenCloudCLF]

You're entitled to hang onto your pettiness, Knife Fighter. Have fun with it, don't let it drive you to an early grave, okay?

Have you seen the pics????

He is already passed the ability to go to an early grave:D

[PangQuan]

Hey Ray Pina, did you ever post your videos? I am interested in seeing them.

me too.


PS

while im here...PEOPLE NEED TO GROW UP.

develope some mental poise and learn to slide the insults of your iron will. seriously im 26 lecturing my seniors.

its embarassing.

[SevenStar]

Ahh, I see what you're saying. You're trying to tell me that you're a sexist idiot. I read you loud and clear, and I'll keep it in mind.

~~Jules


LOL, now who's disrespectful? go train or something...

[Jules]

LOL, now who's disrespectful? go train or something...

What do you expect? I don't give respect to people who make sweeping statements, regarding gender or race or anything. You can say whatever you want; no one can take away that right. But you are accountable for it and you're not exempt from people's opinions on it. So if you're going to make generalizations like that ("jealousy is a female trait,") you're just going to have to learn to live with that opinion not being respected, and often being mocked.

~~Jules

[SevenStar]

What do you expect? I don't give respect to people who make sweeping statements, regarding gender or race or anything. You can say whatever you want; no one can take away that right. But you are accountable for it and you're not exempt from people's opinions on it. So if you're going to make generalizations like that ("jealousy is a female trait,") you're just going to have to learn to live with that opinion not being respected, and often being mocked.

~~Jules


1. it's the internet. your respect means nothing here. I was mocking you based on what you have posted in the past.

2. it's not a sweeping generalization. It's a definition of something a man shouldn't be. what it says is that any man that is on top of his business shouldn't have time to be jealous of anyone.

[Ou Ji]

Umm, Jules, he didn't say it.


Who cares about envy and respect over the internet? And why would he care about how you two feel about your sifu? As put by jay-z:

"males shouldn't be jealous, that's a female trait..."

Maybe you should take it up with Jay-Z.

[SevenStar]

I was gonna say that, but didn't wanna waste the time. The rest of that line is

"what, you mad cuz you push dimes and he sell weight?"

instead of being jealous, make things happen to get where you want to be. that's all the line is saying.

[Jules]

1. it's the internet. your respect means nothing here. I was mocking you based on what you have posted in the past.


Then why did you bother to post? If you didn't care, you wouldn't have pointed it out.



2. it's not a sweeping generalization. It's a definition of something a man shouldn't be.


Which is a sweeping generalization. People shouldn't define themselves only by gender. The only "definition of something a man shouldn't be" is female. Jealousy, respect, things like that, these have nothing to do with gender. By assigning "jealousy" to women, you misunderstand and insult both of the sexes.

It doesn't matter if it's your original quote or not: you still said it. For instance, if I came on here quoting Hitler like I meant it, I'd still have to be held accountable for that kind of asshattery, whether or not I'd made up the words myself.

I'd be happy to take up this discussion of ignorance and sexism in a PM if you want instead of wasting more space on the forum. Well, maybe not happy, but willing, just to clear this thread of it.

~~Jules

[Ou Ji]

Maybe you shouldn't have cluttered the thread in the first place.

The problem I see is you guys/gals get all huffy over crap that you're guilty of as well. Sevenstar's post was on topic, yours was venting because you felt insulted by his quote.

You guys rant and rave over someone insulting you but you guys/gals consistently insult others.

I've noticed the forum seems to have taken a nose dive since you guys'gals showed up.

[Knifefighter]

Jules,
What's with all the pop-psycho babble all the time?

Methinks your gentle sensiblities would be less offended and the topics more to your liking here:

http://www.askmen.com/message_boards/index.html

[Jules]

Maybe you shouldn't have cluttered the thread in the first place.


I always speak out against things that I think are wrong; that's how I'm built. To let things like sexism, racism, and other -isms go is against my nature. I don't think that standing up for what's right is ever "clutter." You do? Wow. I care so much.

Hey, knife fighter, you're still not over me? Gee, I'm flattered. I've never heard of the board you're trying to link me to. But clearly you are familiar with it.

~~Jules

[CoRWiN]

WoW Flame On... and way to gang up.

A. Your all a bunch of retards, you quote Jay-Z but then defend yourself by saying "I'm not the one who said it". That's completly absurd. Oh so then the argument is it's not taken in complete context ... well that's all you put up, if you ment more post it.

B. "We're Guilty of" ... SOOooo what your really saying is Jules shouldn't point out the Sexest tone of that message because she actually is Completly guilty of it in the first place. Can you get any more ignorent?! Sounds like you climbed up the dumba$$ tree and hit every branch as you fell down. Please don't waste your time, my time and this posts time unless you have something actually worth typing.

C. "We ruined your little commnuity" ... Life's a I3itch. Sorry it's not your private little party anymore, but I know i've been having some great conversations with the more respectful members of this group. Seems that the people we're having a problem with are annoyiences in the respectful guy's sides as well. I guess it must suck that the new boys/girls on the block make you look stupid.

D. "Psycho-Babble.... Methinks ..." Methinks Ug here should go back to his cave with his club, cause he's WAY out of his league. We make you look dumb in ways you wouldn't comprehend in a hundred years. You had no place posting knifefighter, unless you can justify tagging along on a gang bang. Way to Flame! even after Gene basically said "Shut the **** up" for at least a week. Still missing the point.....

In conclusion way to pick on someone, your all a bunch of winners!!!

Remember ME = 23 > You = probably older then me... so act it

[Mook Jong]

This is getting childish. I am a student of green cloud and think this is out of hand. To get back to ray's very valid point "You've worked hard to be where you are. Don't ruin it with talk on the net." 7 star, in the future i would suggest just not putting things up that are general and offensive. Can you honestly say you have no idea why Jules is upset. I wouldn't expect any less from any women with a free will and the ability to type. Ou Ji, your right, we have cluttered up the boards; it's because this is a public forum, so when someone has an opinion contrary, they will likely voice it. And what you said is true, this board is becoming petty. In general, just have your fights via PM. It helps save room and time so people aren't involved in such frequent flame wars.

[Ou Ji]

I always speak out against things that I think are wrong;


Well, I have to say that I can agree with that, hence my post. But I'm sure it's only ok when YOU speak out and not me. Is that how it works?

[Ou Ji]

B. "We're Guilty of" ... SOOooo what your really saying is Jules shouldn't point out the Sexest tone of that message because she actually is Completly guilty of it in the first place. Can you get any more ignorent?! Sounds like you climbed up the dumba$$ tree and hit every branch as you fell down.

Funny how you guys prove my point every time you respond.


Please don't waste your time, my time and this posts time unless you have something actually worth typing.

Take your own advice. Or do you believe you just posted something important?


C. "We ruined your little commnuity" ... Life's a I3itch. Sorry it's not your private little party anymore,

Gee, wasn't it the Green Cloud crew that wanted they're own private forum? Having trouble playing with others? Maybe you should quit insulting people and we wouldn't have to go through all this crap.


even after Gene basically said "Shut the **** up" for at least a week. Still missing the point.....

And he was talking about KF only? Pss, got a mirror?

[CoRWiN]

"Funny how you guys prove my point every time you respond"

that makes NO sense in responce to my post... please explain if you can.

"Gee, wasn't it the Green Cloud crew that wanted they're own private forum? Having trouble playing with others? Maybe you should quit insulting people and we wouldn't have to go through all this crap"

How about to post class cancellations or modifications, or how about issues that are directly related to us... oh gee never thought of that...

"And he was talking about KF only? Pss, got a mirror?"

Actually he was talking about KF, Alba, and Green Cloud. Of the three only Green Cloud stopped, unless Alba has stopped as well .... clearly KF hasn't. But who he definitly Wasn't talking to was me. I posted to just make the odds a little more fair this time ... well not quite fair.

remember Me > you.

Your Flame-Fu is poor

[Jules]

Well, I have to say that I can agree with that, hence my post. But I'm sure it's only ok when YOU speak out and not me. Is that how it works?

Uhh, if you re-read my post, I specifically pointed out that everyone has the right to their opinion. But they must be ready for someone to call them on it. You (and I mean the general "you")--along with anyone else--have every right in the world, if you wanted, to be a sexist jerk. You have the right not to be one. You have the right to make generalizations, I have the right to refute them. I'm sure I said that already, but hey, what's a little repetition going to hurt?

To Corwin you said,


Take your own advice. Or do you believe you just posted something important?



It seemed to me that Corwin was also standing up for what he believed in, and speaking out against generalizations. Didn't you just say in your post to me that you agreed with that?

Mook Jong makes a whole bunch of valid points here. We could all take a lesson from him in net-fu.

~~Jules

[Ou Ji]

Well, I was going to reply but you guys consistantly miss the point and I'm convinced you're never going to get it. For some reason you fail to see that you do the same things you fault others for doing.

You want to post internal school specific stuff that's what school websites are for, not online public forums. But you seem to have missed the fact that my comment was in response to Corwin thinking we want our own private party here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoRWiN
C. "We ruined your little commnuity" ... Life's a I3itch. Sorry it's not your private little party anymore,

We all know it's a public forum. Only ones I've seen wanting their own private little party is you guys.

And I'm ssure Gene meant everyone, on this thread and others. Are going to play the childish 'he didn't specifically say me so I can keep flaming' game?

Oh, and Jules, Corwin was ranting and raving about other people ranting and raving. Basically he was doing essentially what he's complaing about others doing. Typical MO for you guys apparently. Maybe put as much effort into discussing the topic.

And yes, I'm guilty of it as well because I haven't touched on the topic in these posts either.

[CoRWiN]

This is the part in the thread where you own up to your mistake and apologize to Jules... and then we can all go on our merry way.

[Jules]

Well, I was going to reply but you guys consistantly miss the point and I'm convinced you're never going to get it. For some reason you fail to see that you do the same things you fault others for doing.
[quote]

The only thing I'm faulting anyone for here is making sweeping, false statements. I don't think I've done that.

[quote]
You want to post internal school specific stuff that's what school websites are for, not online public forums. But you seem to have missed the fact that my comment was in response to Corwin thinking we want our own private party here.


In fact we've got one now. That conversation is in a completely different thread. What does that have to do with anything in this thread?

Ah, Corwin, I thank you, but I don't require an apology from these folks here, because I don't think it would mean much. I made my point--that jealousy is not a female trait and that sexism and other -isms are silly and pointless--and either people will understand that, or they will not. If guys don't respect girls, they're not going to get girls anyway. :p

~~Jules

[Green Cloud]

Who cares about envy and respect over the internet? And why would he care about how you two feel about your sifu? As put by jay-z:

"males shouldn't be jealous, that's a female trait..."

Guys tend to have a respect - or lack thereof - for those who do (or don't) put their money where their mouth is. He could really care less about you two and the respect you have for him. He cares about what he's done in the ring. If you're talking about what you can do, you should be able to back it up somehow, preferably with verifiable evidence.


I have to add to my original post, I only agreed to Seven Star's quote Who cares about envy and respect over the internet? The first paragraph is on the money, Know one really cares about this stuff, These guys on the forum just like to get a response for attention

I really don't take the time to read everything. So after reading the rest of the tread I realized what he was implying and I don't agree with this statement. I need to warn you guys (jewsl and corwin). These guys are realy crafty, kind of like jackles. They like to lure you in by striking a nerve and then they attack.

In the little time that I have spent on this forum, It's clear to me that you have to be very selective about who you debate with. Corwin I've read some of your post and they were very interesting when you were having discussions with objective individuals.

The best way to **** these guys off is to not give them attention, unless you have the time to discuss pointless subjects.

The funny thing I gave seven star props before I even finished reading his post.

I'm speaking from experience I wasted the whole weekend arguing with NF and these guys. What did it get me Carpel Tunnel.

Not that it wasn't fun it was. The thing is Most of these guys are not busy runing full time MA studios, they are weekend warriors, not authorities when it comes to MA. Think about it what impact have they made in the MA comunnity?? How many guys/gals have they trained??

That's why they are so cunning. They have the time to cut and paste and post pictures and spend all their time thinking of ways to insight reactions out of you guys.

Realy how can you take someone seriously when they are pointing out things like bad spelling. Common like I spend the time to use my spell checkLoL

Like I have the time to convince and provide evidence to nameless people on the internet.

My only goal on this site is to talk to several of my friends training brothers and answere some questions to students, Not to debate with a few people that haven't made any impact in the Ma community what so ever.

Even though we are on an internet forum you'l still run into the same bully's that you run into everyday, exept this is the internet not face to face.

Think about this for a second, this is New York we got the best of the best, Gracies, Shaolin temple (three of them), and some of the greatest Ma schools in the country. In suffolk county alone there is over three hundred schools.

I ask you how is it that I am still in buisness?? Could it be that maybee I know what I'm doing??? I challenge the touf guys to try to own and operate their own schools.

You think fighting is hard give it a shot open a school. By the way this is New York it's a touf place. I opened my first school when I was 17 and still run three full time, I'm now 39.

Think about it guys if I still have to get in the ring To get respect after all these years, Well all that proves is that I'm insecure about my skill wich I'm not

As far as challenges go, I've never turned one down after all I do have to protect the honor and integrity of my school.

My point is that if your'e in a mood for a snapping contest cool but don't take it seriously, If you feel like having an intelectual conversation and these guys jump in, don't get frustrated just ignore them, and pretend they don't exist.

Why add fuel to their fire that's just what they want. Joy gin

[Jules]

I have to add to my original post, I only agreed to Seven Star's quote Who cares about envy and respect over the internet? The first paragraph is on the money, Know one really cares about this stuff, These guys on the forum just like to get a response for attention

I really don't take the time to read everything. So after reading the rest of the tread I realized what he was implying and I don't agree with this statement.


I got what you meant when you wrote it. :)



I'm speaking from experience I wasted the whole weekend arguing with NF and these guys. What did it get me Carpel Tunnel.

Not that it wasn't fun it was.


Yeah, it's blowing off steam, I'll admit that. Rough day at work, sometimes I come home and look for someone rude to verbally kick. Not a good habit, this shooting of fish in a barrel.



Think about this for a second, this is New York we got the best of the best, Gracies, Shaolin temple (three of them), and some of the greatest Ma schools in the country. In suffolk county alone there is over three hundred schools.


No kidding? I had no idea there were quite so many. I looked at a handful before calling up Green Cloud one day last year--none of them appealed to me up until I spoke to Lao Shir on the phone. Sometimes you just get a feeling about something and it's right on the money.



My point is that if your'e in a mood for a snapping contest cool but don't take it seriously, If you feel like having an intelectual conversation and these guys jump in, don't get frustrated just ignore them, and pretend they don't exist.

Why add fuel to their fire that's just what they want. Joy gin

You're right on this. It was fun though, wasn't it? ;)

~~Jules

[Green Cloud]

Jewls it was a lot of fun. Actualy it was good therapy.

[Knifefighter]

Jules is a woman??? :confused:

I thought Jules was just kind of an effeminate man, hence the askmen's website.

That explains the psychobabble. :eek:

GC-
Running a successful school has nothing to do with being a good fighter. The most successful schools, long-term, are usually Mc Dojos.

Obviously, I don't know you, so there's no way for me to know whether or not your school is any good. I can only go by your posts and your website. I can only base my opinion on my 35 years of being involved in combatives and based on that, I don't see any evidence of fighting proficiency at your school. A real fighting school (not necessarily a financially successful one) will have photos of the students fighting, or at least sparring. There is not one of those types of pics on your website. It's all forms, demos, and posed two man techniques. The photos on a website are usually pretty representative of what normally goes on there, training-wise.

[Green Cloud]

You have a valid point, but my website is desighned to atract buiss. It's desighned to be warm and inviting. What you want to see in the web site would scare people from comming to my schhol.

Keep in mind we are striving for a main steam clients. The hard core guys that would normaly go to a dog bros event usually don,t have any money. Trust me I know what I am talking about.

I see schools open up everyday they come off hard core and they go out of buiss. the next day.

Think about your clients, your a personal trainer you know you have to calm peoples fears before you train them.

I didn't see anyone sparring on your site.

Ask any buiss. consultant and they will tell you the same thing.

[Ludeviews]

I see schools open up everyday they come off hard core and they go out of buiss. the next day.


Unfortunately this seems to be true.

At the federation I train there a load of different classes run by different instructions. Some play hard and some don't.

In my experience the classes that play hard always have a lower attendance than the classes that don't.

I know my instructor has had to tone it down a little as he wasn't getting enough students to cover costs.

[rogue]

Makes sense as training with fighting in mind isn't pleasant for the average person. The more serious the fight being trained for the harder the training which means fewer customers. You might be right about the money issue GC. I have cash but train purely as a hobbiest and not as a fighter. Then you have those with cash that train to live a fantasy and not to fight, those who train to fight because they think it's their way out of being broke. But then you do find the guys with cash in hand and the desire to test themselves in the ring and they're able to and will seek out the best training.

[Mr Punch]

I can't believe all this dumb flaming is still going on. Has no-one anything interesting to say or relevant to kung fu or any other MA?

And Green Cloud, will you stop all this 'they' BS? There is no 'they' as in any kind of group of people on this site... it's just a very disingenuous way of lumping together people who disagree with you! Take a leaf from your student's book about not liking generalisations will you!

[rogue]

Trust me I know what I am talking about.
Green Cloud, with your typing half the time I can't even figure out what you're talking about.


Wrong Mat, They are out there and They are watching us. ;)

[Ray Pina]

I don't want to be a "martial artist" anymore.... this term has lost all meaning.

[hjt]

I don't want to be a "martial artist" anymore.... this term has lost all meaning.

sorry to say this ray

but no one wants to be a martial artist, anymore. they want to be famous, want to be on the cover of black belt and inside kung fu mag, want to sell thousands of dvds, be in movies, open schools globally and make alot of money.

the martial artists of old are dead, just like the samurai and the dodo bird.

[rogue]

Thank god that's been cleared up. I never liked samurai anyways, not very good role models for the kids.

[Green Cloud]

Green Cloud, with your typing half the time I can't even figure out what you're talking about.


Wrong Mat, They are out there and They are watching us. ;)


relax I wasn't talking about you (they). I suck at typing so forgive my spelling, I'm aware it sucks. Hell I have trouble sighning my signature, Maybee I'l just stop writing. Don't you watch LOST, watch out for the others

[Green Cloud]

I can't believe all this dumb flaming is still going on. Has no-one anything interesting to say or relevant to kung fu or any other MA?

And Green Cloud, will you stop all this 'they' BS? There is no 'they' as in any kind of group of people on this site... it's just a very disingenuous way of lumping together people who disagree with you! Take a leaf from your student's book about not liking generalisations will you!


Mat the flame war is over, I just saw some guys trying to get it started again. I was just implying that negative comments shouldn't be dignified with an answere.

Beside I wasn't refering to you. The trolls that start trouble know who they are. Besides Mat I love you and you love me right;)

[Mr Punch]

Wrong Mat, They are out there and They are watching us. ;)Don't be ridiculous, they're just behind the curtains.


Besides Mat I love you and you love me rightAnd now they're coming to take me away. Haha, heehee, hoho. They're coming to take me away.