In order of importance... list 'em

[Ray Pina]

1) Coordination
2) Structure
3) Technique
4) conditioning

[TenTigers]

"Yat-dahm, Yee Lik, Sahm Gung-Fu"

Courage first, strength second, technique third

[MasterKiller]

1+1+1+1 = 1+1+1+1

They are equally important.

[David Jamieson]

the order in which the grow is generally

1,4,2,3

but they are all of equal importance.

[hskwarrior]

coordination first because without the ability to place the first foot in front of the other you are doomed.

Conditioning second because if you cannot go the distance you are doomed.

Structure third because in my opinion you will be learning the blue print of the techniques. it helps with proper weight distribution, center of gravity etc etc.

Technique last because by know you shoould know how to punch kick or whatever. so now all thats left is to practice your technique.


HSK

but these are just MY opinion

[Ray Pina]

I put conditioning last because no matter how much I condition, I will never have the hight and reach of Silvia. So do I just work my straight jab hours after hours to try to make it faster, when he doesn't need to block my straight, just jab me out like Ali?

Or, at 32, do I sprint myself silly .... will I be able to match the 19 year old college wrestler who is also sprinting himself silly? Impossible!

Putting conditioning first is betting on something you have no control over. After 23 (probbaly sooner) you start losing reaction speed, timing .... can the 40 year old kick to the head the same way as the 19 year old?

How much time to condition to kick that high and fast in the first place? How easy to learn to stop that attack?

So I beleive in investing in coordinated movement and structure, something that gives you a technical-power advantage, such as torque.

This is my personal philosophy. Of course, if I was 22 maybe I'd feel differently. But philosophy is important. Taking mixing Thai boxing and BJJ .... two different ideas all together. One doesn't start business until clinching, or on the ground outright. The other is a striking game. So do you divide your focus (along with a million kids younger than you doing the same?) or do you specialize?

Anyway, condition is a must. You must condition yourself to be the best you can be. But conditioning in the view of gaining an advantage by it .... only if you are fighting the old, fat guy .... but that aint martial arts anyway. How do you fight the young, big guy as the old fat guy?

The answer to that is martial art. I see a lot of good "fighters" today, but not many good martial artists. Randy Coutier, however, is a good example of a martial artist to me. Royce Gracie is another. Older men who can overcome the young fighter with technology.

[TenTigers]

conditioning is key.
Not only does one need physical conditioning, strength, power, in order to effectively protect themselves-which is why I adamantly oppose Adult Ed self-defense classes, or Krap -magoo.
But-you cannot develop real physical conditioning without mental conditioning. The ability to push yourself beyond the comfort zone regularly requires extreme mental discipline. This will carry over to the fight by developing the will. Too many people lose fights not because they were beaten up, but because they were beaten down. They lost the will to continue. Whether it was from pain, or mental or physical exhaustion. The will to continue no matter what, to never give up. That will be the deciding factor of whether you win or lose, live or die.

[MasterKiller]

The answer to that is martial art. I see a lot of good "fighters" today, but not many good martial artists. Randy Coutier, however, is a good example of a martial artist to me. Royce Gracie is another. Older men who can overcome the young fighter with technology.

Both of these guys condition like madmen.

[Knifefighter]

1- Technique. Technique is the foundation.
2- Conditioning. Conditioning can be maintained throughout life.
3- Coordination. Coordination, comes with time spent doing the activity.
4- Structure. Structure comes from good technique.

[hskwarrior]

ten tigers,

i learned that "never give up" mentality when overcoming being paralyzed from the waist down. in that respect, your belief in what you set your mind to has to be stronger than your personal belief in god. I speak out of experience, because i don't know too many people who could have returned from where i came.

to be able to do what i do today and keep striving to do is a blessing. i was given a second chance. Unfortunately i will never get the chance to fight professionally because i am not afraid to admit i still have some limitations as a result, but i'm have never given up. when you give up you die. and i will never do that.

in regards to "MY" being --'Fat'----it's not biological. i have a bonified reason ---the paralyzation. no one could understand to do what "WE" do with all the love and passion and then to have that all taken away along with the use of your legs. FOREVER!!!! imagine that!!!!! feel just for a second what that would be like for you?

now stop and think about what i've accomplished so far. it is the true sense of "Never Give UP!"

hsk

[Ray Pina]

Ten Tigers, what you say is true.

Unfortunately, I believe fight spirit, or lack there of, was a major factor in my last fight. I was mentally tough the month out preparing, had a few challenge matches going in, but the day of the fight my head was elsewhere. I was there to fight, stepped in the ring, got up after taking a hell of a shot off the ropes that put me down and busted my nose, kept fighting, but the whole time I was lacking the fire to kill that guy ..... I choked. First time it's happened to me in fighting. It happened a few times in my football days. I'll tell you what though, I'll never let that happen again.

hskwarrior, I could only imagine what that must have been like. Sometimes I wonder what I would do if I lost my legs. Never thought about it in terms of martial arts, the first thing that comes to my mind is "O my God, I won't be able to surf anymore."

I'd boogie board, but it wouldn't be the same.

[David Jamieson]

you could also look at it from the perspective of what feeds of the last.

co-ordination is required to simply stand. It's a prerequisite to even attempting anything to do with body motion.

conditioning is indeed something you can work on and maintain consistently throughout life, but in context to fighting, it is something that serves as a defensive mechanism that will always be required. It could be considered defensive technique, but it is more like endurance method.

structure is the base for technique and is dependent on co-ordination. Technique is vague and undefined when it is not within structure.

technique is refined when the above three are in place. then it becomes a matter of choosing techniques and working them. I'm talking about offensive techniques and defensive techniques, ie: - principled solutions to given attack/defense types in a given range.

[hskwarrior]

Ray,

the funny thing is when my accident happened the first and only thing i thought of was " I will never be able to practice martial arts again. in my entire life." that was a lot to deal with mentally.

the thought of losing my legs was so traumatic for me i will tell you something that i don't normally tell people (because i get emotional over it still) is that when the doctor told me i had 6 months to stay in the hospital for recovery that was it. i called my best friend who witnessed my accident and asked him to bring me a gun. i said to him "don't allow me to live like this" "not like this, I'm too young to spend the rest of my life in a wheel chair."

needless to say, i hit rock bottom and had nowhere to go but up. so it was do or die and i did. but it was hardest trial of my life to date man. it's taken my years to get the strength back in my legs. but i never gave up. my sifu had a lot to do with that as well. he wouldn't let me give up. i can remember i couldn't throw a kick "at all" and now to easily take down a 315lb guy makes me look back at how far i've come from exchanging my legs for a set of wheels.

So do you surf professionally or just for fun? i went body surfing in SF-bay area and it was hella fun. my lady had fun too. we were talking about getting a boogie board this summer and have a ball.

[lkfmdc]

For what it is worth, I tore BOTH my shoulders rotator cuff (two in one shoulder, one in the other) in 1996 and almost totally lost the use of one arm for over 12 months... I did over 19 months of PT... but being married (unhappily) and not being able to work out I got up to 225 lbs.... I'm now around 180 depending upon the size of my daily cup of coffee ;)

45 lbs is a huge difference in your performance... not to mention your health

[Ray Pina]

When I talk about coordination I don't mean basic balance. I mean, if you're a total doofis you're out already, forget about figthing.

I mean training coordination of movement to seek an advantage, such as punching with the arm alone vs punching with the arm/shoulder/upper back vs punching with the arm/shoulder/upper back/hip/foot .... everything! Coordinating that movement until it's natural.

Or, planting to kick with vertical balance VS kicking while in motion, driving off the back leg into the target + the normal kicking motion. Stuff like that.

hskwarrior: I just surf for fun, but it's pretty much the best thing in my life, the time I'm most at peace. Total let go. Very similiar to fighting in that you train ability and technique but when you're looking over the edge of a giant wave there's no time to think .... you just go and express your skill.

[hskwarrior]

yeah it sucks huh dave when we get injured?

I gained a lot of weight because i just didn't have the strength to do anything but get to the bathroom. metabolism sunk like hell. its hard to do things when your heart and mind are on the same page, but my legs had a whole other idea about what they were doing.

i'm around 225 now, but i feel good at this weight. i don't feel sluggish, my sifu always brags that i walk slow (because of the accident) but wait till you see him move. "not bad for someone who was never going to walk again?"

but i wanted to continue my martial art career so bad it was my main focus. from my experience i gained alot of insight to things. bascially i had to re-learn my gung fu from scratch, and i mean literally. that meant from standing to horse, to movement. thats why i feel i'm all choy lee fut because of being re-shaped from "0" . it taught me alot about balance and proper weight distribution as well as sensivity.

glad to see you better dave, and oh, thanks for ignoring my plea for your help there brother. no biggy, got it done anyway.:D

peace.

[hskwarrior]

yeah it sucks huh dave when we get injured?

I gained a lot of weight because i just didn't have the strength to do anything but get to the bathroom. metabolism sunk like hell. its hard to do things when your heart and mind are on the same page, but my legs had a whole other idea about what they were doing.

i'm around 225 now, but i feel good at this weight. i don't feel sluggish, my sifu always brags that i walk slow (because of the accident) but wait till you see him move. "not bad for someone who was never going to walk again?"

but i wanted to continue my martial art career so bad it was my main focus. from my experience i gained alot of insight to things. bascially i had to re-learn my gung fu from scratch, and i mean literally. that meant from standing to horse, to movement. thats why i feel i'm all choy lee fut because of being re-shaped from "0" . it taught me alot about balance and proper weight distribution as well as sensivity.

glad to see you better dave, and oh, thanks for ignoring my plea for your help there brother. no biggy, got it done anyway.:D

peace.

[SevenStar]

I put conditioning last because no matter how much I condition, I will never have the hight and reach of Silvia. So do I just work my straight jab hours after hours to try to make it faster, when he doesn't need to block my straight, just jab me out like Ali?

Or, at 32, do I sprint myself silly .... will I be able to match the 19 year old college wrestler who is also sprinting himself silly? Impossible!

Putting conditioning first is betting on something you have no control over. After 23 (probbaly sooner) you start losing reaction speed, timing .... can the 40 year old kick to the head the same way as the 19 year old?

How much time to condition to kick that high and fast in the first place? How easy to learn to stop that attack?

So I beleive in investing in coordinated movement and structure, something that gives you a technical-power advantage, such as torque.

This is my personal philosophy. Of course, if I was 22 maybe I'd feel differently. But philosophy is important. Taking mixing Thai boxing and BJJ .... two different ideas all together. One doesn't start business until clinching, or on the ground outright. The other is a striking game. So do you divide your focus (along with a million kids younger than you doing the same?) or do you specialize?

Anyway, condition is a must. You must condition yourself to be the best you can be. But conditioning in the view of gaining an advantage by it .... only if you are fighting the old, fat guy .... but that aint martial arts anyway. How do you fight the young, big guy as the old fat guy?

The answer to that is martial art. I see a lot of good "fighters" today, but not many good martial artists. Randy Coutier, however, is a good example of a martial artist to me. Royce Gracie is another. Older men who can overcome the young fighter with technology.


I think you still miss the point of conditioning, man. One of our guys trains with couture. His name is mike pyle - you can find him on sherdog, he's the WEC champ right now. When I talked to him a few months ago, he told me that he has problems keeping up with couture - and he's younger. Don't use age as an excuse to not condition - you condition to the best of your ability. You aren't that old - you're only 30. there's really no reason why you can't be in similar shape to the young guys.

[lkfmdc]

I worked out with Mr Couture about a year ago, he scared me, he scared me big time, he said he works around his age and doesn't do certain things but he is in monster shape :)

[Yum Cha]

1. Sprit/heart - without it, it goes no further.
2. Courage and determination - props up the Spirit/Heart.
3. Structure - protects you from the inevitable mis-adventures, counters and failures of your technique
4. Technique - the tools in your box.
5. Conditioning - all things being equal, conditioning will win the day.