Black Tiger video clip.

[jmd161]

Ok everyone,

Everywhere i go people want to see what Hak Fu Muhn looks like, so they're always asking to see a vid of Black Tiger. Hak Fu Muhn is very rare and still very secretive, even up to this day. I along with a sisook in Hong Kong are trying to change that, but somethings take time to start the wheels turning.

In any case, here's a Black Tiger longrange form performed on the roof in Hong Kong sometime ago. It has been edited to not show the entire form, even so, you can still see how long the form is. Hak Fu Muhn has some very long forms...

enjoy!

http://www.zippyvideos.com/5650193903423236/hak_fu_muhn/


jeff:)

[CLFNole]

It has a lot of CLF and Lama type techniques and so rather unique short hand techniques as well. Not what I was expecting it to look like. I was thinking more hung like.

Peace.

[jmd161]

It has a lot of CLF and Lama type techniques and so rather unique short hand techniques as well. Not what I was expecting it to look like. I was thinking more hung like.

Peace.

Yep,

Everyone expects Hung Garish type stuff, we do have it, but there's alot more to Hak Fu Muhn than people are aware. I can put up another vid and you'd swear it was Hung gar.


jeff:)

[hskwarrior]

i liked it though

i agree very choy lee fut-ish. but is hak fu man the style or the name of the school?


who is that performing it and where?

[jmd161]

i liked it though

i agree very choy lee fut-ish. but is hak fu man the style or the name of the school?


who is that performing it and where?


hsk,


Sil Lum Hak Fu Muhn = Shaolin Black Tiger Assoc/sec/clan

It's a si dai of my sifu on the roof in Hong Kong. I put that video to show the longrange side of Black Tiger. Most people have never seen Black Tiger and only think, "it looks just like Hung Kuen/Gar", but Black Tiger has it's own distinct flavor.


jeff:)

[David Jamieson]

awesome jeff.

that's the third of the forms that wyh has laid on me.
it's a cool set.

[Phil Redmond]

hsk,


Sil Lum Hak Fu Muhn = Shaolin Black Tiger Assoc/sec/clan

It's a si dai of my sifu on the roof in Hong Kong. I put that video to show the longrange side of Black Tiger. Most people have never seen Black Tiger and only think, "it looks just like Hung Kuen/Gar", but Black Tiger has it's own distinct flavor.


jeff:)
I studied at Fu Jow Pai in 1970 when Sifu Wai Hong was teaching class. Fu Jow Pai history claims lineage to Hak Fu Mun as well. Is there a connection with the HFM in HK?
Phil

[David Jamieson]

btw and fwiw, i learned some black tiger not of this family before and it's not the same system.

[jmd161]

I studied at Fu Jow Pai in 1970 when Sifu Wai Hong was teaching class. Fu Jow Pai history claims lineage to Hak Fu Mun as well. Is there a connection with the HFM in HK?
Phil



I'm sure somewhere down the line they all crossed paths, but where noone knows. There were from what i was told only two schools of black tiger in china Hak Fu Muhn and Shantung Black Tiger, so something happened because you have atleast four counting Fu Jow Pai and the Black Tiger that Sifu Wes Cameron teaches.

Also Su Hak Fu taught Black Tiger in Canton for a long time, so who knows.

But right now the only connection to Fu Jow Pai, is my sifu's friendship with Grandmaster Wai Hong:D

jeff:)

[jmd161]

awesome jeff.

that's the third of the forms that wyh has laid on me.
it's a cool set.


Hey Dave,


When you get a chance i need to speak with you off the forum.....tell Wai Yee Ho i said hello!

So you know that one and the three dummy forms now right?

Did you start Golden Buddha or Sam Sing Po?



jeff:)

[Phil Redmond]

I'm sure somewhere down the line they all crossed paths, but where noone knows. There were from what i was told only two schools of black tiger in china Hak Fu Muhn and Shantung Black Tiger, so something happened because you have atleast four counting Fu Jow Pai and the Black Tiger that Sifu Wes Cameron teaches.

Also Su Hak Fu taught Black Tiger in Canton for a long time, so who knows.

But right now the only connection to Fu Jow Pai, is my sifu's friendship with Grandmaster Wai Hong:D

jeff:)
According to Fu Jow Pai history Wong Mun Toi learned Haak Fu Muhn and taught Ng Wai Hong. Thanks for the input Jeff.
Phil

[jmd161]

According to Fu Jow Pai history Wong Mun Toi learned Haak Fu Muhn and taught Ng Wai Hong. Thanks for the input Jeff.
Phil


Yeah, i've read that before in their history, but the Hak Fu Muhn he learned had to have already been influenced by something else. I say that because they share none of the common well known black tiger sets or the 9armed Black Tiger Grinder Dummy.

There are a few sets that are known within some Hung family styles like Hung Kuen and Hung Fut that also share these forms, and Fu Jow Pai doesn't have them. Wai Hong has been a friend of my sifu since my sifu came to America in the mid-late 70's. My sifu even performed at a celebration for Wai Hong, he still has the banners from the event. It was labled as come see the Black Tiger style all the way from Hong Kong. I don't know if you were still with Wai Hong at that time, if you were?

You should remember my sifu as C.Kuen Wu or Fred Woo.


jeff:)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I also agree that there are many, Hung, Choy Lay Fut and Lama techniques in this form. I liked it.

I'm not sure if all of you will subscribe to this idea, but - I don't think many styles get further than a generation without being substantially 'altered'. Look at CLF for a second. It's in it's 4-6th generation (depending on who you train with or who you are) and it already has (so everyone claims) over 100 hand forms, between the different branches.

Do you realize what that means? Supposedly, there were 8 original forms (some say a few more). You would have to add approximately 20 forms per generation to get up to that number. Do the math. It's only a 170 year old style.

Now, I'm not saying this is bad. I think this IS the true spirit of CMA. It is always evolving, combining, stealing/sharing with other styles, in hopes to create a better one. All styles have done this in one way or another.

Look, teaching methods change/improve, goals of students/instructors are different, society morphs, etc. Things have to change. It is the nature of the universe. I think it's great, as long as the people changing or adding to a style are 'competant' enough to do so.

When I in Hong Kong recently, I spent a lot of time with the Lau family, specifically Lau Ga Yung and his even more famous uncle, the great shaw bros. movie star and director Lau Ga Leung. We talked about this very concept. Although they carry on a tradition (Lau Ga Leung's father was a disciple of Lam Sai Wing) they believe that CMA must constantly evolve to improve, otherwise it will die.

Just some thoughts. I did like the form very much. I have also seen Fu Jow Pai in NY for over 20 years....doesn't even resemble it.

Post some more forms!

[jmd161]

Look at CLF for a second. It's in it's 4-6th generation (depending on who you train with or who you are) and it already has (so everyone claims) over 100 hand forms, between the different branches.

Do you realize what that means? Supposedly, there were 8 original forms (some say a few more). You would have to add approximately 20 forms per generation to get up to that number. Do the math. It's only a 170 year old style.

Just some thoughts. I did like the form very much. I have also seen Fu Jow Pai in NY for over 20 years....doesn't even resemble it.

Post some more forms!



Lama Pai Sifu,


I agree with you on this, it's the same with Black Tiger. Black Tiger started out with around five fist forms, and now there's over a hundred also. I will be posting others as soon as i can get them edited for the internet.



jeff:)

[WinterPalm]

Thanks for the clip. It is always nice to see a different version of the Black Tiger style. I must say, that is a very well done form! Man, that guy's legs are built!!
I did catch quite a few "hung" movements but done in a quicker than Hung Gar fashion.

Good stuff.

[Phil Redmond]

Yeah, i've read that before in their history, but the Hak Fu Muhn he learned had to have already been influenced by something else. I say that because they share none of the common well known black tiger sets or the 9armed Black Tiger Grinder Dummy.

There are a few sets that are known within some Hung family styles like Hung Kuen and Hung Fut that also share these forms, and Fu Jow Pai doesn't have them. Wai Hong has been a friend of my sifu since my sifu came to America in the mid-late 70's. My sifu even performed at a celebration for Wai Hong, he still has the banners from the event. It was labled as come see the Black Tiger style all the way from Hong Kong. I don't know if you were still with Wai Hong at that time, if you were?

You should remember my sifu as C.Kuen Wu or Fred Woo.

jeff:)
That name does sound familiar. I was there before Tak Wah Eng. Paul Vizzio,
Sidney Ko, etc., were Sifus. Here's a funny story. We wore the school T-shirts under our uniforms and when it got hot we could take our tops off. Well, Morgan Fairchild was my training partner since we were the shortest in the class
Paul Vizzio would often yell out "Fairchild, put your top back on" when the guys got distracted. The male students were not happy about that. ;)
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Yeah, i've read that before in their history, but the Hak Fu Muhn he learned had to have already been influenced by something else. I say that because they share none of the common well known black tiger sets or the 9armed Black Tiger Grinder Dummy.

There are a few sets that are known within some Hung family styles like Hung Kuen and Hung Fut that also share these forms, and Fu Jow Pai doesn't have them. Wai Hong has been a friend of my sifu since my sifu came to America in the mid-late 70's. My sifu even performed at a celebration for Wai Hong, he still has the banners from the event. It was labled as come see the Black Tiger style all the way from Hong Kong. I don't know if you were still with Wai Hong at that time, if you were?

You should remember my sifu as C.Kuen Wu or Fred Woo.

jeff:)
That name does sound familiar. I was there before Tak Wah Eng, Paul Vizzio,
Sidney Ko, etc., were Sifus. Here's a funny story. We wore the school T-shirts under our uniforms and when it got hot we could take our tops off. Well, the actress Morgan Fairchild was my training partner.
Paul Vizzio would often yell out "Fairchild, put your top back on" when the guys got distracted. The male students were not happy about that. ;)
Phil

[jmd161]

That name does sound familiar. I was there before Tak Wah Eng. Paul Vizzio,
Sidney Ko, etc., were Sifus. Here's a funny story. We wore the school T-shirts under our uniforms and when it got hot we could take our tops off. Well, Morgan Fairchild was my training partner since we were the shortest in the class
Paul Vizzio would often yell out "Fairchild, put your top back on" when the guys got distracted. The male students were not happy about that. ;)
Phil


Ha Ha... that's a funny story.:D


jeff:)

[Fifth Brother]

Ok everyone,

Everywhere i go people want to see what Hak Fu Muhn looks like, so they're always asking to see a vid of Black Tiger. Hak Fu Muhn is very rare and still very secretive, even up to this day. I along with a sisook in Hong Kong are trying to change that, but somethings take time to start the wheels turning.

In any case, here's a Black Tiger longrange form performed on the roof in Hong Kong sometime ago. It has been edited to not show the entire form, even so, you can still see how long the form is. Hak Fu Muhn has some very long forms...

enjoy!

http://www.zippyvideos.com/5650193903423236/hak_fu_muhn/


jeff:)

Won't play. All I get is download and when it starts to play, the video section disappears and just the control section is left at the bottom. I have IE6

[jmd161]

Won't play. All I get is download and when it starts to play, the video section disappears and just the control section is left at the bottom. I have IE6


Hmmm,



I don't know why it won't play for you???



jeff:)

[hakka jai]

I liked the clip ,the dude sure perfromed the form well.,looks a mege long form but i enjoyed the clip.

[Infrazael]

WHAT WAS THAT THING.

I still can't decide how to place it. Totally different flavor than anything I've seen.

Very nice; thanks for posting it Jeff.

[hskwarrior]

i thought the kwan do was pretty good.

i noticed that there are no specific techniques to specific styles when using the kwan do. it seems that most systems have that gallop --general kwan riding his horse. we have that, except that ours looks pretty.

but we also have alot of the same stuff in our kwan do.

thanks for putting that up for us.

[Green Cloud]

Intersting hmm, it doesn't look like anything that the Fu Jow pai people in New York.. Maybee Wai Hong made it up.

[Phil Redmond]

Intersting hmm, it doesn't look like anything that the Fu Jow pai people in New York.. Maybee Wai Hong made it up.
When I was at Fu Jow Pai in the 70's we were told that Fow Jow Pai was a mixture of Haak Fu Mun, Mi Chung I, and I think CLF.
Phil

[Southern Fist]

Phil:

Fu Jow Pai is from Hak Fu Moon, Mi-Chung I and Hung Ga (not CLF).

The 1st Generation teacher Wong Bil Hung was a Hung Ga practioner initailly and was Later taught Hak Fu Moon and Mi-Chung I (Lost Track). which he then taught it to his nephew Si-Tai-Gung Wong Moon Toy which then to Si-Gung Ng Wai Hong.

[jmd161]

Intersting hmm, it doesn't look like anything that the Fu Jow pai people in New York.. Maybee Wai Hong made it up.


Ok,


let's try to get this straight once and for all.


Fu Jow Pai "IS NOT" Hak Fu Mun!


Fu Jow Pai was created from Hak Fu Mun and other styles. Hak Fu Mun is the style of Soo HaK Fu aka Soo Chi Er of Gwongdung Sap Fu (Ten Tigers Of Canton) fame. Hak Fu Mun is very rare and still very secretive even to this day. Because of this secrecy and the fact most people have never seen any of the Black Tiger styles, other than Fu Jow Pai. People tend to think Fu Jow Pai is Hak Fu Mun or even Shantung Black Tiger, but it's not.

Hak Fu Mun and Shantung Black Tiger are very rare, with Hak Fu Mun being the rarest of them all. At this current time there are only three known people teaching Hak Fu Mun in the world. My sifu the senior disciple of Grandmaster Wong Cheung C. Kuen Wu in the United States, WYH a sidai of my sifu in Canada, and E.Tsai another sidai of my sifu in Hong Kong. Those are the only "known" members of Wong Cheung's lineage teaching Hak Fu Mun.

Most Hak Fu Mun elders have chosen to take their knowledge to the grave with them. I along with E.Tsai in HK, and another Black Tiger brother in Texas named Jerry are trying to preserve what knowledge our sifu's have to keep Hak Fu Mun from dying out.


jeff:)

[Southern Fist]

jmd161:

Why get fustrated as I mentioned it is from HFM, HG, MCI, did I imply FJP was HFM.

But, anyway thank you for the informative information on who still teaches the style.

[David Jamieson]

Jeff, is WC not involved with the association anymore?

Just curious as he still writes about it it seems.

[jmd161]

jmd161:

Why get fustrated as I mentioned it is from HFM, HG, MCI, did I imply FJP was HFM.

But, anyway thank you for the informative information on who still teaches the style.


Southern Fist,

There was no fustration on my end what so ever. I just used that instance to explain to people who don't know, a lil BT history. I didn't even quote you in my post, so i'm not sure how you took it as being fustrated or upset with you?



Jeff, is WC not involved with the association anymore?

Just curious as he still writes about it it seems.


David,

I haven't talked to him in sometime now, so i'm not sure. I know he and sifu have talked, but i don't know what they've discussed.


jeff:)

[Phil Redmond]

Phil:

Fu Jow Pai is from Hak Fu Moon, Mi-Chung I and Hung Ga (not CLF).

The 1st Generation teacher Wong Bil Hung was a Hung Ga practioner initailly and was Later taught Hak Fu Moon and Mi-Chung I (Lost Track). which he then taught it to his nephew Si-Tai-Gung Wong Moon Toy which then to Si-Gung Ng Wai Hong.
I stand corrected. It was a long time ago.
Thanks.
Phil