What Pak Mei Form is this?

[Vince]

http://homepage.mac.com/stevefarrell/images/SifuLee.mov

[Ao Qin]

:eek: Hi Vince - it's a Dragon Style form called Touch Bridge (Lung Ying Moh Kiew).

Cheers - Ao Qin

[Vince]

Thanks a lot for clearing that. Though it looked like Pak Mei.

[Ao Qin]

Both arts are similar in many respects.

This person plays his Lung Ying with much larger movements than most of the Dragon I've seen. It reminds me more of what I've seen from the mainland / Canton area than Hong Kongers. Does anyone else here share this view or no?

[Southern Fist]

Lung Ying Mo Kiu in Dragon and Ying Jow Nim Kui in Bak Mei are the same set.
Only done different.

Lung Ying and Bak Mei are very similar in techniques and theory. The difference comes with the way the technique is executed.

As for the teacher performing that is definitely Lung Ying Mo Kiu secondary to the way he bows.
If it would Bak mei the bow (Hand positions) would be done differently.
The way the teacher plays is somewhat bigger then usual, but it still is the set.

[Yum Cha]

I think there is still some question as to if the Lung Ying More Que and Ying Jau Lin Que are the same forms, or how much of them are the "same", but Ying Jau is a from taken/given from Dragon into Pak Mei. That form looks a bit like Ying Jau, but I'm told by others that Sifu Lee is a Loong Ying player, and that the video is mis-labeled.

The Ying Jau we have was taught to Si Gung by Lam Yeu Gwai, not by CLC. This is one reason for my statement above.

I think the best person I know to resolve that issue is mantis 108, as he studied with Master Chow Fook who was a renowned dual Dragon and Pak Mei student. He has been know to chime in on these kinds of questions. Do any of you Dragoners recognise Sifu Lee's form?

Yes, I will agree that Guangzhou plays the forms "bigger" than hong kong.

I like the performance by Sifu Lee, it looks good and demonstrates much of the character of Pak Mei, in my humble opinion. Not bad for an old boy...:D

[mantis108]

Thank you Yum Cha, you've given me too much credit., my friend. :)

I agreed with Ao Qin that this is no doubt Lung Ying Mor Kiu but the movements are expressive and the "circle" is a lot bigger that the direct Lam family lines. The bow as Southern Fist pointed out is Lung Ying specific. Bak Mei bow would be in use for the Ying Jow Liam Kiu. Although the structure of the form is almost identical, there some technical differences (ie more pronounced claw action in BM's version).

Sifu Lee's mor Kiu form is done similar to our way of doing things. Lam Woon Kwong's line would have done things differently. Personally, I think Lam's way is more refined. For example the second road's jumping double kick in LWK's line is done from a full kneeling position which follows a turn with double elbow plus backward right stomp (agile cat catches mouse). The kick is called Lok Dei Hey Lin Poon (falling to earth; rising lotus throne). As seen in the clip, it's far more simplified.

To play Mor Kiu to its full potential, there are a few key area to pay attention to:

The opening sequence of Kow Pak, Boi Kim must be fluid and tight with forward pressure. This should be strong (Gang).

The retreating mor kiu or Tui Mor should be tight, round, and subdue. Being compact is the key here. But this does not mean that the footwork would be shy. This should be subtle (You).

The Tan Ging (lifting power) that follows Tui Mor should be whole body's power coming from the feet. The core strength is every thing. Also you should feel the Chi expand through the finger this is why it's done with the open hand. The entire bridge is like charged with electric current. If done properly, you can uproot a heavier person.

Kicking sequence as mentioned above should be done with finesse and grace.

The chasing mor kiu (jiu mor) have to be agile and fast (make haste without being hasty). Most people pay too much attention to the hands and they don't pay attention to the footwork. It is said that higher level Lung Ying came form Mui Fa (plum blossom) of Ng Mui from the north which I believe is a relative of Yong Chun He Fa (Yong Chun crane method).

Lung Ying is about the spirit - Zhen Qi/shun hei. This is quite vigorously demonstrated by Sifu Lee.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[meltdawn]

Robert, nice call on the Lam Woon Gong version.

Ho Lei was a student of Lam Yiu Kwai. he was (i'd guestimate) 73 when he performed this set at the NYC Chinatown Master's demo. thus, i would expect him to "simplify".

nice comments on everything!

[Southern Fist]

Yum Cha:
Ying Jow in LungYing is not done or is the same form as Ying Jow Nim Kiu.

CLC also learned and taught Lung Ying prior to Bak Mei so Sigung CLC aslo knew this form. :D

[Ao Qin]

This is a nice conversation!

Yes, Sifu Lee does indeed perform his techniques "larger" than conventional to HK at least, but his spirit is there, and that's what's ultimately important to a Dragoner. He obviously has a very high level of skill and dedication! What I was taught is that softer, smaller and tighter is better as you progress. This is easier to accomplish at a younger age...Sifu Lee at his age though, demonstrates to us a vigour that most people on this forum can only aspire to!

Mantis 108 - you have obviously reached a high level in Chow Fook's art and are a true scholar in the martial tradition - thank you for continuing to share your insights with us!

Sincerely- kevin