Risk Management / Longevity

[Ao Qin]

:confused: I am interested in health and longevity for whatever reason,

So...I did some research on the lifespans of the founders / grandmasters / famous practitioners, etc...if you only care about fighting with people and dying young, this won't interest you. However, please look, read comment, contribute, etc. This is obviously not a scientific study, so please no-one get their hair in a knot. I am obviously lacking in all kinds of info - especially internal / Northern arts - so let's get this started and see where it goes - there must be some benefit to living a long, healthy, and productive life, even if the practioner doesn't engage in UFC competitions to "prove" how tough they are (Dragon motto; "It's not when you start to count, but when you finish - making the difference").

Sort of a "risk management" question - what would the insurance people rate you on based on the art you practice?


Dragon Style:

Lam Yiu Kwai (1876-1968); 93 years old
Chow Fook (1910-1999); 89 years old
Lam Woon Kwong (1902-1982); 80 years old

Average retirement age: 87.3 years old

Hung Gar:

Wong Fei Hung (1850-1933); 83
Lam Sai Wing (1861-1942); 81
Tang Fung (1874-1955); 80
Yuen Ling (1910-1967); 57

Average retirement age: 75.25

Choy Lee Fut:

Chan Heung (1806-1875); 69
Chan Goon Bak (1847-1920); 73
Lee Koon Hung (1943-1996); 53
Chan Yiu Chi (1888-1965); 77

Average retirement age: 68

Others:

Lum Tai Yong (Fut Gar) 1895-1957; 62
Lee Siong Pheow (Jook Lum) 1886-1960; 74
Dean Chin (Jow Gar) 1950-1985; 35
Yip Man (Wing Chun) 1895-1973; 78
Bruce Lee (Wing Chun) 1940-1973; 33
Wang Shu Chin (Pa Kua) 1905-1981; 76
Sun Lu Tang (Tai Chi) 1859-1933; 74
Yin Fu (Hsing-I, Ba Gua) 1840-1909; 69
Ueshiba Morihei (Aikido) 1883-1969; 86
Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan) 1868-1957; 88
Chojun Miyagi (Goju) 1889-1953; 6

Looking forward to responses!

AQ

[green_willow]

:confused: I am interested in health and longevity for whatever reason,

So...I did some research on the lifespans of the founders / grandmasters / famous practitioners, etc...if you only care about fighting with people and dying young, this won't interest you. However, please look, read comment, contribute, etc. This is obviously not a scientific study, so please no-one get their hair in a knot. I am obviously lacking in all kinds of info - especially internal / Northern arts - so let's get this started and see where it goes - there must be some benefit to living a long, healthy, and productive life, even if the practioner doesn't engage in UFC competitions to "prove" how tough they are (Dragon motto; "It's not when you start to count, but when you finish - making the difference").

Sort of a "risk management" question - what would the insurance people rate you on based on the art you practice?


Dragon Style:

Lam Yiu Kwai (1876-1968); 93 years old
Chow Fook (1910-1999); 89 years old
Lam Woon Kwong (1902-1982); 80 years old

Average retirement age: 87.3 years old

Hung Gar:

Wong Fei Hung (1850-1933); 83
Lam Sai Wing (1861-1942); 81
Tang Fung (1874-1955); 80
Yuen Ling (1910-1967); 57

Average retirement age: 75.25

Choy Lee Fut:

Chan Heung (1806-1875); 69
Chan Goon Bak (1847-1920); 73
Lee Koon Hung (1943-1996); 53
Chan Yiu Chi (1888-1965); 77

Average retirement age: 68

Others:

Lum Tai Yong (Fut Gar) 1895-1957; 62
Lee Siong Pheow (Jook Lum) 1886-1960; 74
Dean Chin (Jow Gar) 1950-1985; 35
Yip Man (Wing Chun) 1895-1973; 78
Bruce Lee (Wing Chun) 1940-1973; 33
Wang Shu Chin (Pa Kua) 1905-1981; 76
Sun Lu Tang (Tai Chi) 1859-1933; 74
Yin Fu (Hsing-I, Ba Gua) 1840-1909; 69
Ueshiba Morihei (Aikido) 1883-1969; 86
Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan) 1868-1957; 88
Chojun Miyagi (Goju) 1889-1953; 6

Looking forward to responses!

AQ

As for insurence - it depends on whether you are asking about life insurence or medical insurence. As you know training has its bumps and bruises. But I always say what doesn't kill you probably makes you stronger!

[Ou Ji]

Yeah, but you could also say what doesn't kill you now could kill you later.

Small injuries could get magnified by time.

[GreenCloudCLF]

So Lung Ying players live longer??

I'll take the lower life span and stay with CLF/Lama!!

[green_willow]

Yeah, but you could also say what doesn't kill you now could kill you later.

Small injuries could get magnified by time.

Yes, hence they all eventually died :D

[hskwarrior]

Green Willow

You Need To Get The Marines To Teach You How To Spell A Little Bit Before You Can Exchange Comments With Real Gung Fu People.

You Are Full Of Bs.

[hskwarrior]

What Do You Mean Probably? What You Mean You Are Not Sure If What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger?

Yeah You Probably May Know What You're Talking About, But I Seriously Doubt That.

[hskwarrior]

AO QIN,

THEN YOU HAVE..........

lAU bUN OF clf (1891-1967) 76 YRS OLD

[David Jamieson]

i think Lam Jo at 95 years would bump that Hung Ga number up a bit too :p

[GreenCloudCLF]

Chan Tai San was 83...you can put him down for CLF...

[Firehawk4]

Are you sure that Lee Siong Pheow (Jook Lum) 1886-1960 is from Jook Lum Southern Mantis where did you here that ? Lee Siong Pheow comes from Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist . Also dont forget about those Fukien White Crane Masters they live to be real old .

[Ao Qin]

Ok - that's a good start so far! I'll add Lam Jo, Chan Tai Shan and Lau Bun! I'd love to learn more! When this thread has officially died, I will summarize all the input in the last post.

Firehawk - I'll double check my source - but I am generalizing when I "lump" Southern Mantis styles together (Chow Gar, Chu Gar, "Chu Ka", Jook Lum, Iron Ox, etc.) - all excellent styles with the same general root. I could include Bak Mei and Lung Ying too I suppose...but I don't want to!

GreencloudCLF - on the surface, it appears LY'ers live longer than CLF'ers. But maybe you guys enjoy the adrenaline rush more than we do...
Cheers - kevin

[Asmo]

More Hung Gar:

Dai Sigung Chiu Kao, almost 100 (1895-1995) and his wife Dai Sigung Shiu Ying 96 (1906-2002).

Very repectable ages.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Great-Grandmaster Hu Yuen Chou (1906-1997) 91
Chan Cheong-Mo (1868 - 1956) 88
Chan Ngau Sing (aka Chan Kwok Choi), (1864-1926) 62


THree more for ya...even included a low one, so you didn't think I was being biased:D :cool:

[Ao Qin]

Hmmm...perhaps my research was a bit flawed...thank you for everyone's input! I'll still wait a bit, but I hope no-one is feeding me any "barium enemas" (in the words of Sifu Davies)...still no word from the Wing Chung'ers or anyone Northern / Internal. Maybe because I didn't post this there.

Cheers - AQ

[lung 1]

choy lee fut and hung gar

Wong Cheun Yip

86 yrs old

[Ao Qin]

:) Hi Lung One,

You must be a student of Master Chan (Edmonton) or Master Chan (Toronto) or Master Chan (New York)...

Thank you for sharing this information - could you please also share the birthdate and desceased date for Master Wong? I am very happy to learn this info!!!

Cheers -

AQ

[Yum Cha]

PaK Mei Grandmaster Cheung Lai Cheun 1880-1964

That puts him at 84.

[lung 1]

Ao Qin


Wong Cheun Yip

1876-1962

[Ao Qin]

:) Thank you Lung1!!! Do we know each other?

This thread is (thankfully) almost dead - I'll wait a few more days, but I've obviously been proven wrong about the Dragoner's living longer than other styles - well, not really, but overall, yes.

Thanks to everyone who contributed - I'll do my tally this week and repost soon.

Cheers - AQ

[charp choi]

Chow/Chu Gar SPM - Lau Soei > 76 (1866-1942)

Chow Gar SPM - Ip Shui > 91 (smoked like a chimney too) (1913-2004)

Chu Gar SPM - Cheng Wan > 86 (1923-2009)

[David Jamieson]

Exercise, diet and careful living do not extend your life.

NO style can make claim to longevity and no practice or food can make that claim either.

What you can do is greatly improve your quality of living through maintenance of well rounded health. Good food, good exercise and especially a good attitude are what are going to make you vigorous into your autumn years.

[TenTigers]

Hung-Ga-
Chow Wing-Dak was in his late nineties when he passed.
Lam Jo is a hundred. I met him when he was 98 and he had a grip like steel, and fast hands!

[David Jamieson]

Hung-Ga-
Chow Wing-Dak was in his late nineties when he passed.
Lam Jo is a hundred. I met him when he was 98 and he had a grip like steel, and fast hands!

I know a gentleman who was an executive at Ford for more than 50 years. He is 101 years old and never practiced martial arts of any kind in his life.

He recently married, about 7 years ago and his wife is 96.

While visiting with them up at the cottage about a year ago, we enjoyed each others company and these two were on very little medication and ate and drank all the same things as we did, including beer tea and coffee.

When I asked them what the secret to their own longevity was, the answer was succinct and simple. "Attitude".

I truly believe it has everything to do with attitude and will and almost nothing to do with healthful practice beyond that making your longevity somewhat enjoyable. :)

[TenTigers]

I know a gentleman who was an executive at Ford for more than 50 years. He is 101 years old and never practiced martial arts of any kind in his life.

He recently married, about 7 years ago and his wife is 96.

While visiting with them up at the cottage about a year ago, we enjoyed each others company and these two were on very little medication and ate and drank all the same things as we did, including beer tea and coffee.

When I asked them what the secret to their own longevity was, the answer was succinct and simple. "Attitude".

I truly believe it has everything to do with attitude and will and almost nothing to do with healthful practice beyond that making your longevity somewhat enjoyable. :)
I heard he had a friend who was also 96, who recently took a very young wife. When they asked him,'With such a young wife, aren't you worried about a heart attack?"
He replied,"If she dies, she dies!":D

[Jimbo]

I remember about 30 years ago when I was in my teens, I read some books that said that those who practice "internal" styles have greater longevity and quality of life than those who practice "external" styles. Around that same time, I also remember talking to some adult guy who practiced Taiji who told me, "You would probably beat me in a fight right now, but because I practice internal martial arts, 30 years from now I'll be able to beat you very easily, because my internal training will make me more youthful and stronger than I am now, but your external training won't help you stay youthful." :rolleyes:

Well, during the years since then, I came to realize what I suspected at the time; that good health and longevity have nothing at all to do with "styles," "internal" or "external," etc. It really IS about attitude, and probably genetics as well. I've seen a ton of practitioners/teachers of so-called internal styles who were in poor health, even for their ages. I've seen a number of same in so-called external styles who were quick-thinking and vital well into their old age. Besides, internal or external are levels of training. A practitioner of any style or system can be internal or external depending on the level they've achieved.

I've seen people in advanced age who have never practiced MA nor qigong and are in amazing shape. A couple years ago, there was a guy in England I think was 105 years old who ran a marathon. Another 100+ year-old was a guy who simply enjoyed working in his large garden, could have passed for 70. I'm not sure how old Jack LaLane (sp?) is now, but not too long ago, he still looked great into his 80s, and I doubt he practices any qigong (though I could be wrong).

So as far as lifespan having to do with styles, I have doubts. Although I have noticed that there have been a particularly large number of long-lived Hung Gar masters.

[lkfmdc]

Chan Tai San's sifu (Jyu Chyuhn) was over 100 when he died

there goes your theory

[charp choi]

I also think LUCK has a lot to do with it.

[Vajramusti]

Ip Man- about 80

his disciple- stll living-late 80s.

jpy chaudhuri

[Vajramusti]

The quality of life IMO is more important than longevity.
Attitude and genes as well as diet and activity all can play roles plus luck- not being hit by a drunk driver or being shot.

I have mentioned Ip man and Ho Kam Ming(still teaching selectively). Ip Man's oldest son Ip Chun is on his 80s and teaching.

My yoga teacher lived to be 96.

Me/ 77 yrs-4 months- just got through teaching wing chun and working out.

Dad lived to be 93-- Till the end he threw wing chun punches (I taught him)as part of his activity.

joy chaudhuri

[jdhowland]

White Crane master Kwong Bun Fu made it to at least 95.

My teachers are still fairly active in their late 70s despite being heavy smokers. I heard that 70 is the new 50.

I'm 56 and not feeling so well, myself.

jd

[Faruq]

PaK Mei Grandmaster Cheung Lai Cheun 1880-1964

That puts him at 84.

Any idea how long Pak Mei masters have been living after Cheung Lai Chun?

[diego]

:confused: I am interested in health and longevity for whatever reason,

So...I did some research on the lifespans of the founders / grandmasters / famous practitioners, etc...if you only care about fighting with people and dying young, this won't interest you. However, please look, read comment, contribute, etc. This is obviously not a scientific study, so please no-one get their hair in a knot. I am obviously lacking in all kinds of info - especially internal / Northern arts - so let's get this started and see where it goes - there must be some benefit to living a long, healthy, and productive life, even if the practioner doesn't engage in UFC competitions to "prove" how tough they are (Dragon motto; "It's not when you start to count, but when you finish - making the difference").

Sort of a "risk management" question - what would the insurance people rate you on based on the art you practice?


Dragon Style:

Lam Yiu Kwai (1876-1968); 93 years old
Chow Fook (1910-1999); 89 years old
Lam Woon Kwong (1902-1982); 80 years old

Average retirement age: 87.3 years old

Hung Gar:

Wong Fei Hung (1850-1933); 83
Lam Sai Wing (1861-1942); 81
Tang Fung (1874-1955); 80
Yuen Ling (1910-1967); 57

Average retirement age: 75.25

Choy Lee Fut:

Chan Heung (1806-1875); 69
Chan Goon Bak (1847-1920); 73
Lee Koon Hung (1943-1996); 53
Chan Yiu Chi (1888-1965); 77

Average retirement age: 68

Others:

Lum Tai Yong (Fut Gar) 1895-1957; 62
Lee Siong Pheow (Jook Lum) 1886-1960; 74
Dean Chin (Jow Gar) 1950-1985; 35
Yip Man (Wing Chun) 1895-1973; 78
Bruce Lee (Wing Chun) 1940-1973; 33
Wang Shu Chin (Pa Kua) 1905-1981; 76
Sun Lu Tang (Tai Chi) 1859-1933; 74
Yin Fu (Hsing-I, Ba Gua) 1840-1909; 69
Ueshiba Morihei (Aikido) 1883-1969; 86
Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan) 1868-1957; 88
Chojun Miyagi (Goju) 1889-1953; 6

Looking forward to responses!

AQ

Grandmaster Yip Chi Sum from Bak Mei retired around the age of 80...he had to get stomach surgery and he said as soon as they put the scalpel to his belly all of his fighting chi was gone a month later his full head of hair turned white. in a hurry:)

[Asmo]

Any reason you leave out Hung Kuen masters like Chiu Kao and his wife Shiu Ying, or even living ones like Lam Cho?

Making a list like that is very very subjective...

PS: How you determine when someone retired? Where you found all this info?

[Lee Chiang Po]

:confused: I am interested in health and longevity for whatever reason,

So...I did some research on the lifespans of the founders / grandmasters / famous practitioners, etc...if you only care about fighting with people and dying young, this won't interest you. However, please look, read comment, contribute, etc. This is obviously not a scientific study, so please no-one get their hair in a knot. I am obviously lacking in all kinds of info - especially internal / Northern arts - so let's get this started and see where it goes - there must be some benefit to living a long, healthy, and productive life, even if the practioner doesn't engage in UFC competitions to "prove" how tough they are (Dragon motto; "It's not when you start to count, but when you finish - making the difference").

Sort of a "risk management" question - what would the insurance people rate you on based on the art you practice?


Dragon Style:

Lam Yiu Kwai (1876-1968); 93 years old
Chow Fook (1910-1999); 89 years old
Lam Woon Kwong (1902-1982); 80 years old

Average retirement age: 87.3 years old

Hung Gar:

Wong Fei Hung (1850-1933); 83
Lam Sai Wing (1861-1942); 81
Tang Fung (1874-1955); 80
Yuen Ling (1910-1967); 57

Average retirement age: 75.25

Choy Lee Fut:

Chan Heung (1806-1875); 69
Chan Goon Bak (1847-1920); 73
Lee Koon Hung (1943-1996); 53
Chan Yiu Chi (1888-1965); 77

Average retirement age: 68

Others:

Lum Tai Yong (Fut Gar) 1895-1957; 62
Lee Siong Pheow (Jook Lum) 1886-1960; 74
Dean Chin (Jow Gar) 1950-1985; 35
Yip Man (Wing Chun) 1895-1973; 78
Bruce Lee (Wing Chun) 1940-1973; 33
Wang Shu Chin (Pa Kua) 1905-1981; 76
Sun Lu Tang (Tai Chi) 1859-1933; 74
Yin Fu (Hsing-I, Ba Gua) 1840-1909; 69
Ueshiba Morihei (Aikido) 1883-1969; 86
Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan) 1868-1957; 88
Chojun Miyagi (Goju) 1889-1953; 6

Looking forward to responses!

AQ

Actually, you might should not mention the martial arts. Most people view you as a particular type of person that is prone to violence or whatever. Most people watch the TV fighting you know. Besides, none of it will assure you longivity or health. Your personal lifestyle will usually dictate that. Diet, exercise, personal hygene, habits, like smoking and drinking or doing drugs, unprotected sex, and the type of people you hang with. All these things can effect longivity. Genetics will only have a small effect if you are aware of that aspect and remove the factors that apply. Life is tough. No one survives it. It is 100% fatal.

[taai gihk yahn]

I also remember talking to some adult guy who practiced Taiji who told me, "You would probably beat me in a fight right now, but because I practice internal martial arts, 30 years from now I'll be able to beat you very easily, because my internal training will make me more youthful and stronger than I am now, but your external training won't help you stay youthful." :rolleyes:

I would have said, "So, basically, I should beat your asz and break your legs now, so that in 30 years you'll be a cripple when we meet again..."

[Jimbo]

I would have said, "So, basically, I should beat your asz and break your legs now, so that in 30 years you'll be a cripple when we meet again..."

I remember thinking something like that at the time, but only gave him a poker face. I wonder whatever became of the guy.

[chusauli]

With China longevity now being 61.2 for men, 63.3 for women (WHO 2000 - perhaps a bit dated), I would say that the standard of health is not as good perhaps in the 19th century.

You can refer to http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-life.html for more info.

Lately China has a lot of pollution, additives and preservatives in foods, smoking, obesity, diabetes and modern diseases like heart disease and cancer.

Your list might be exceptional, with outstanding examples of past ancestors, but clean water, food, air pollution, and the medical system have a lot more to do with longevity. Even more so than martial arts practice which may be considered a luxury, or supplement to daily lifestyle habits.

Please also refer to:

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

and also look up countries ranked by health system here:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

You'll see China as number 144, and the USA at number 37 of 190 countries. That's pretty bad. And the USA, why aren't we number 1, or top 10? That's glaringly problematic considering how much we spend.

Best regards,