Wan Ma Kai
03-16-2001, 01:19 AM
Whats the deal with Jiang Jian Ye? He has about about 200 instructional video tapes!!! Has anyone seen these tapes? Are they mostly Modern Wushu tapes? Or Traditional Wushu? Also, has anyone seen his Bagua sword video tape???

Shout outs to the BLACKTAOIST!!!!

[Edit: I just can't stand looking at an entire post with caps lock turned on.]

03-16-2001, 03:54 AM
I have a buddy who does eagle claw, he borrowed a copy of a weapon tape by this guy from a friend. Personally, I don't comment on tapes or pictures ... too many variables. But frankly, I don't see what others think matters much. (Please don't take that offensively, I am only speaking in reality, no harshness meant) I am not easily impressed and you may not want to hear what I really think. ;^)


Wan Ma Kai
03-16-2001, 05:13 AM
Neijia, i welcome all ideas and opinions. Speak your mind. I'm just very curoius about these tapes especially the bagua sword tape.

03-16-2001, 07:14 AM
It's garbage, they all are.

03-16-2001, 04:07 PM
Yes, I'd be curious to hear specific opinions on his skill as shown on tape. He has a couple tapes out on subjects I'm interested in that I haven't seen anywhere else, like Taiji staff and Taiji short staff. I don't like to knock anybody I don't know anything about, but from my understanding of CMA, there is no way in hell anyone could have learned in depth even half of the styles he has tapes out on.

Self-Thinking Follower
03-17-2001, 01:32 AM
Its all new school wushu based. His level is not Beijing team standard.

03-19-2001, 12:13 AM
Hey guys,

I will give you my opinion and tell you exactly what I saw on his tapes via email. I'd much rather handle this in a private matter. Here's my email address. I will respond as soon as I possibly can.


03-19-2001, 12:14 AM
Hey guys,

I will give you my opinion and tell you exactly what I saw on his tapes via email. I'd much rather handle this in a private matter. Here's my email address. I will respond as soon as I possibly can.



03-19-2001, 12:19 AM
i see pictures of these videos all the time in tai chi magazine, and they're not all contemporary. in fact, i'd bet that most of them are traditional.

it's hard to believe that they would be "garbage," though. on the bottom of the videos it says "master tai chi and kung fu instructor, master chinese calligrapher." certification is required in china, and it's hard to believe that someone could get away with that sort of a reputation.

as for it being a very large number of videotapes, yes, it is, but that doesn't mean that he has mastered them. being a master and a teacher are two very different things.

i'm not sure about the "beijing wushu team" standards. personally, i wouldn't whine if a teacher i had didn't have perfect form, as long as it was good.

it might seem like i'm a little bit partial, but i like the looks of his videos, and those little pictures of the colorful boxes look really neat. i think my favorite box is the "snake boxing" one. just give me a catalog of those things and i'll be busy for hours. :)

03-19-2001, 08:26 AM
I hope you are joking. You think these tapes are good because they look cool? Do you smoke Marlboro's cuz you want to be a cowboy?

I've seen two of his tapes, and from a traditional point of view there are numerous postural problems, and he has no internal power. I reiterate, they are garbage.

03-19-2001, 05:04 PM
I'd love to hear from anyone . . . ANYONE . . . who has studied and crossed hands with Jiang. That's an opinion I'd value. I don't doubt he's a highly-skilled wushu athlete, but I don't think he learned much in the way of applications. When asked about demonstrating applications, he says that in China they aren't typically taught because the authorities are concerned with fighting knowledge becoming too widespread. That says to me that Jiang himself may not have learned anything beyond the forms. On some of the tapes, he does demonstrate some simple applications.

Very few people can judge a person's internal strength simply by watching a videotape of that person. That's why I'm interested if anyone has actually crossed hands with Jiang.

As far as forms go, his tapes are an interesting catalogue of different arts that are not otherwise widely recorded on tape. I guess I see Jiang in that sense as more of a librarian than a martial artist. For example, he has one tape providing demonstrations of the 5 "family styles" of taijiquan, and some key points of distinction between them. That was interesting to study.

He learned his Chen Taijiquan form from Chen Zhenglei. That's one example of the caliber of his teachers. How well he learned is another question entirely.

Just a thought.

03-19-2001, 11:38 PM
i don't think they're good videos. i've never seen any. i just think that the little pictures of the boxes are neat.

03-20-2001, 03:05 AM
Look at this question from a logical view point. In China there colleges/schools are full of martial arts practice you can attend one school and learn a dozen different martial arts.

This guy has tapes out on Shaolin, Praying Mantis, Southern Boxing, Hsing I, All 5 styles of Tai Chi, Bagua and other styles.

Keeping the view point logically correct on this, with that being said, how can I student be good at all these different arts? From hard practice and dedication? Highly doubtful.


03-20-2001, 06:19 PM
I have his tape on silk-reeling. It's interesting from a cultural perspective but I wouldn't try to learn from him anything beyond the basics of an art. Most are not even good at one style, very few can really be good at more than one style, and nobody can be good at 75 different styles. One might be functional on a basic level in a lot of styles but nobody is good at them.

"When I fought the foreign boxer in Kyoto, I jumped up and punched him in the face. This is effective against people who are taller than you." -- Motobu Choki

03-20-2001, 07:20 PM
Love that quote from Motobu. I remember reading a description of that fight.

08-17-2001, 10:09 PM
First off,
I would like to say that the people who stated
that his videos are no good should first actually
purchase them and see it for themselves and then
maybe they would not make such stupid comments.
Secondly I have never met jiang but i have two of his videos snake boxing and tai chi fan.His videos are the best on the market theres a reason
why his videos are the most expensive its because there the best.I was able to master the tai chi fan and im now learning snake from his video.I find his videos to be clear,in depth and high quality.I cant comment of whether or not he mastered every form on video that he sells but i can say for sure without his snake video and tai fan it would impossible to learn it.He is an excellent teacher and has remarkable skill in his forms.Some people said that hes not wushu team standard there a for simple reason for that he never claimed to be he merely said that he has practicing wushu forms since age 5 you people put words in his mouth.And some dont even have his videos and claim that his videos are garbage dont knock what you have not tried.His videos are two hours of in depth instruction he demonstrates the form at the beginning of the video and then goes through each posture slowly and every angle and also gives applications.I was able to learn from his videos.I leave with this statement

08-18-2001, 03:11 AM
Taiji fan . . . now THERE'S a traditional and effective martial art.

08-18-2001, 03:34 AM
I've seen his Tiger video, and it wasn't that good. At least the forms are authentic though.

08-19-2001, 06:28 PM
wuji it is traditional and effective

08-19-2001, 06:39 PM
I have purchased and studied several of Mr. Jiang's videotapes. I stand by what I said.

"A jack of all trades, master of none."

08-20-2001, 03:15 AM
I have 2 of his Ba Gua tapes which I acquired in lots of other books and tapes on Ebay. I hate to talk badly abt people who I haven't met, but the tapes were disapointing. The first 15 minutes of the tape is like an info-mercial on him. Once the tapes finally got to the materiel to be covered it to was not that impressive.

I give this opinion not so much as a martial artist, but as a consumer.

08-20-2001, 05:31 AM
"I was able to master the tai chi fan and im now learning snake from his video."

08-20-2001, 05:51 AM
Actually, the fan IS a traditional weapon. It was not an emphasized weapon but the original ones had spines of metal, a flip out pike at the end, and the spines were pointed - quite sharp, and made to look innocent with the fabric of the fan being silk and often extending beyond the spines a few inches.

Men would often do caligraphy on fans and exchange such as gifts so no one would really pay too much attention to a man with a fan..plus it was hot and fans served a purpose.

In many public places, it was expected that you would leave your weapons ..such as restaurants....not all but in many. So, if you were a famous martial artist, had to'check' your weapon, it is not a bad idea to carry in a rather innocuous looking fan.

Fan techniques have some methods from dagger, some from straightsword, and some from short rod. The most useful techniques are with the fan closed....but open it can do a nasty cutting swipe. It can also be used to obscure vision and block. There are also techniques with the fan open where an opponent's blade would penetrate the silk of the fan and then the fan would be closed and twisted to trap or break (much harder) the blade. This would of course require a metal fan.

It is NOT a mainstream weapon, but it is a traditional one. There are several fan routines around. however, I know nothing of Jiang's fan tape or method.

08-22-2001, 07:25 PM
Thanks, GLW! I stand corrected. I did some more research and found that "iron fans" were used for self-defense purposes in pre-Meiji and Meiji-era Japan as well.

As far as the fan routines currently out, such as the various "Taiji fan" and "Mulan fan" forms, few if any can be traced back more than a couple of decades. That at least is the information I get from a local wushu teacher out of Hangzhou. While the fan qualifies as a traditional weapon, the forms more frequently than not are modern wushu dance routines.

Just my opinion.

08-22-2001, 08:52 PM
While the age of the routines is accurate, the flavor is not.

For example, Grandmaster Wang Jurong, daughter of Zha Quan Master Wang Ziping, created a system with 6 Fan routines in the last 30 or so years.

There are 3 Kung Fu Fan sets and 3 Taiji Fan sets. The 3 are divided as Single Fan, Double Fan, and Two Person Fan teaching the use of the techniques.

The Kung Fu Fan draws heavily on the Zha Quan system and is quite challenging...and has some good techniques for use.

The Taiji Fan is a routine that combines elements of Yang, Chen, Sun, and Wu styles of Taiji applied to fan. It is quite well constructed.

Having learned those and taken my students to competition with them, the common remark I heard was "That Fan routine has martial applications...a lot different from those other methods that are dance like....."

So, there are some sets out there that do have good roots.

The reason that there are not too many if any old routines around is that fan was always thought of as a secondary weapon and not worth the time to put a set together. After all, why use a fan if you have a sword?

I have seen one done where the person did a Fan and Broadsword...totally bogus in concept and in the way the routine was put together....the guy at one point even moved the fan to his right hand and the sword to the left - and used the fan as his primary weapon....what kind of garbage is that. I have a sword and a fan..you threaten me...which one will I use....hmmmmm let me think about that one...:)

08-22-2001, 10:04 PM
Personally, if I lived in Houston in the summer, GLW, a fan routine is the first thing I would learn. :)

I would dearly love to study with Wang Jurong.

08-23-2001, 01:22 AM
Yep....Taiji Fan or any Fan routine - the only weapon I have learned in 25+ years of study that lets me cool off while I am getting sweaty.

Madame Wang...what can I say....superb.

08-23-2001, 08:34 PM
I studied directly with Jiang for just under a year (people are going to flame me now).

Though he's pretty much a contemporary wushu stylist, he did teach me a lot about taiji and Push Hands. Jiang was not the right teacher for me, but he's good at what he does.

Jiang is an interesting study in that he doesn't manifest much power nor application but knows how to teach you to manifest power and application. Everything I learned in taiji/push hands I learned from Jiang - and there was quite a bit that I DIDN'T learn.

Every now and then, I'll drop by Jiang's school to say hello to him and his wife.

I train a completely different style now, but they are still nice to me and I address him as "Sifu" whenever I see him.

les paul
08-25-2001, 05:26 PM
I have seen martial artist that appear like this Jiang Jian-ye before. For the record, I have not seen any of his video's. I do not think this would tell me much anyway. However, I have seen pictures of him performing postures and I question these. For example, in the current Tai Chi magizine, in a picture titled "Xingyi Quan :step forward and punch (Beng Chaun)" he appears to be performing a drilling fist while in a semi-dragon stance. (what's the problem?) the the dragon stance is dirrectly used for projecting jing downward, not upwards! Although you can do a drilling fist while in a dragon stance it would be like trying to do an uppercut while squating. (it defeats the purpose). Again he could be just steping forward with a scissor step but he's not doing Beng Quan!( heart of his fist is clearly rotated up towards the sky in a Zhuan Quan type application)

Although, the picture could be mislabled.

Yet, when I look at another one of his posture titled: "Yang style: brush knee and push" his stance looks way to low to be of any use in a martial application.

He has to much of a Wushu look to his postures for me.

I had some experience with a Wushu artist before. They judge their mastership on how they perform the form, not on applications (I've posted about this before, it concerned a certain Yang stylist with a very high linage)

People like this look good on the outside but have nothing martial inside. They usally hide behind the fact they only teach for health purposes.

However, I don't truly believe this is bad.
One of the reasons why I've concintrated my studies on Xingyiquan is for the health benifits.
But, I believe its a "quasi-by product" of the martial side and not the other way around as some would have you believe.

Again there is no way a person can master even a little of what he claims to have studied, so it must be in a Wushu context that he's talking about (forms only etc...)


08-25-2001, 07:47 PM
the posture he was in was in the changing movements of bengquan. the changing movements are done when you are changing directions. they used to confuse me too when i would see them. they're done so you can start out in san ti before going in a different direction, i believe.

i should get that new issue. didn't know it was out yet.

p.s. i haven't seen any of his videos, but he looks like he has good form, even if it does look a bit wushu-ish. i'm a bit partial to him, though, because his video boxes look neat. they really bring to life tai chi magazine. the "snake boxing" box is my favorite box of all. just look at it and try to tell yourself that you don't want to buy it.

les paul
08-26-2001, 03:36 PM
Then his posture must be from a Shanxi type system.

I've studied Hubei style for 15 yrs+ and their is no scissor step turn in my style's Beng Quan. There is however scissor steping in other places like the five element boxing routine etc....

But, I did consider he was probably performing another style's posture. However his rotated fist still looks like a drilling fist to me and not a Beng Quan.

This is what really caught my eye in the picture, i.e. being labeled as "Beng Quan"

To each thier own I guess.......


Wan Ma Kai
08-27-2001, 01:03 AM
It looks like Drilling to me too!! I think (hope) the photo is mislabled. I think (hope) he's stepping back in transition with a Drilling fist, and will then switch to a San Ti (right foot foward) and a right fisted Beng. I think I saw Liang Shou Yu do this in his tape. Oh and the photo of brush Knee and Push looks alittle odd too!!??!!?? Looks too low?? Maybe it's the angle of the photo thats throwing me off. hmmmmmm?

Shout out to Blacktaoist!!!

08-28-2001, 03:44 AM
let me clear up a couple of things that mite have confused people first I was able to learn a fan form from jiang jian ye videos but it was also easy for me because i had been doing tai chi and many tai chi weapons over a long period so his fan video came easy to me.I'm not saying everybody can learn from a video i just happen to be talented to learn from and improve it.As far the snake boxing its a similar situation i learned a snake fist form but again it wasnt so hard because once again im talented and i had exposed to wushu before.I able it is possible to learn from videos especially his but again

08-28-2001, 07:08 PM
He is a good dancer/choreographer. I can't believe one person can know all those forms from all those different styles.


08-29-2001, 07:19 PM
He's not just good, he's a MASTER at dance/choreography of the kung fu sort.

09-05-2001, 02:42 AM
how could someone master all those arts at that age i mean he couldnt be older that mid 40s even if he didnt master them how could you get that many teachers to teach you the chinese system of how they let students learn is very strict if you were already under the tutalage of a master a nother one isnt going to accept you. Its obvious that he doesnt know what he is doing. A few months ago he had tapes of falun gong i know that the falun gong people wouldnt teach you if you had been a master at other internal arts plus if you already know chi kung. Dont waist your money

Sho Pi
09-05-2001, 05:03 AM
Like most people here I have looked at all the advertisements by Jian-Ye and wondered how he could do all that. I noticed several postures that did not appear correct to me so I was very leary.

However, I recently had a chance to take a couple of seminars with him at a conference he was at. He is very good. I have not seen a person that fit in a long time. He is fast flexible and solid on the basics. He also doesn't portray himself as a Master of all those forms, just a master calligrapher. He stated that what he does is research on a particular form. He learns from several teachers, reads, talks, listens, and then presents what he thinks is the most accurate form he can.

He was a very humble man but spoke honestly. After talking to him I understood better where he is coming from and see his variations in form as just that. Each of our teachers changes the form a little to suit body and energy needs.

Hope this helps.

Sho Pi

09-05-2001, 05:23 AM
i think of him more as a librarian of forms. someone who has good form already, learns a form, and then teaches it to the best of his ability. nowhere did he ever state that he was a master of any of these styles. from what i've seen of his form, though, it looks like he performs the forms well. again, he teaches form and sometimes applications as stated in the descriptions of his videos, but no more. preconceptions, people? again, maybe i'm biased because they give tai chi magazine a colorful, neat look, and because the boxes look really cool. is that really so wrong, though?

if we didn't have him around, we wouldn't have a big library of tapes to look at for reference. also, if a style died out, we could look back to his tapes for reference, to see what exactly it looked like. we're lucky to have him around. i, for one, am still captivated by the little pictures of the video covers. especially that "snake boxing" one. the colors on it, and the balance of the picture are done very well.

besides, maybe someday you'll want to learn a wushu form just for fun. i know someday i'd like to. not go overboard, or learn a few, but one would be interesting. ;)

09-06-2001, 03:58 PM
All right, as long as he isn't presenting himself as a master of all these styles, and his videos aren't claiming to be more than introductions to a style, then I can appreciate his effort at documenting CMAs.

12-14-2007, 09:16 PM
This thread looks dead, but whatever. I am one of Jiang's kungfu students. I hope I can clarify. He teaches mainly taichi as this is his favorite. However, he also instructs us kungfu. He focuses on beauty rather than application. He teaches us the art not necissarily the martial. This can sometimes be dissapointing, but I like it. He knows Tai chi and kungfu well. He studies mostly modern when he was younger, so his traditional may not be fully developed, also, he is not as young as he used to be. This does not mean he is a bad teacher. As far as his videos, I've only seen his Lohan and Snake boxing forms, and they were pretty good. Hope that was educational!

12-19-2007, 10:25 AM
He called my school out of the blue a few months ago and offered to "certify" our instructors for a couple of hundred bucks a pop. We didn't know him and he obviously didn't know us. That takes some pretty big ones. We declined.

12-26-2007, 05:32 AM

I have trained, briefly, with Sifu Jiang.. he has brushed several scrolls for my school.. in both instances i was impressed with his sincerity, his ability, and his humility.. i am not qualified to judge much of the stuff he presents, so i won't.. his suggestions as to nuances of my Yang, Chen and Silk-reeling were very beneficial.. his physical self-control and coordination are among the best i have witnessed..

Be well..