Possible info on Choy Fook

[hskwarrior]

well,

i've never seen it discussed here so i thought i would put this out there for the choy lee fut people.

i was doing my usual research and came across a website that has now been lost, but it about the Choy Ga style. lately there has been question if Choy Fook was a choy ga master or not.

well, i've found (and intended to post its location) a website that focused on the choy ga style. it said that the style was created by a master named Choy Gau Yee, who i think was a student of Gee Sim. also it said that Choy Gau Yee had 5 sons. these sons names were: Choy Pau, Choy Hung, Choy Biu, Choy Loong, and Choy Fu (choy fook).

it also said that the choy style was based off of the dragon.

anyways, as i try to re-tell the base of the story was that Choy Biu was the youngest son of Choy Gau Yee, and after the passing of their father choy biu wanted to go and open his own school in (Zhaqing, i think) but there was another of Choy Gau Yee's students teaching there.

But CHoy Biu felt that this guy didn't teach the real choy ga becuase the real stuff was passed down thru the famiyl. SO Choy Fu (choy Fook) went with Choy Biu to keep an eye on him. they went to see their fathers student and basically choy biu challenged this guy and the master said we are of the same style and felt they should have learned the same things. but the confident choy biu beat the master who realized he didn't learn the complete choy ga system and left embarrassed and was no longer to be remembered.

thats all i remember, but im still researching.

if anyone can direct me to something that says choy fu and choy fook are different please do so because i want to get it right. but if not, that is possibly some info on our choy fook.


peace.

[CLFNole]

I don't think fu and fook are the same but you would need someone to see the chinese characters to be 100% sure.

[hskwarrior]

they are the same, just pronounciation.

cai fu, choy fook.

yuen fook, yuen fu.

choy lee fut = cai li fu=cai li fo=etc.

[hskwarrior]

sorr..................................y

[hskwarrior]

sorryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[hskwarrior]

sorryyyyyyyyy

[CLFNole]

Most of the time "fu" in cantonese would convert to "hui" in mandarian. Changing the dialects would make it difficult; however the way each sons name was written appears based on cantonese and therefore there would be no reason to change fu to fook because they are different words.

Also I think Choy Fook being the founders son would have been well known and come up in our history before. Choy Fook was supposed to have passed on the dummies from siu lum to Chan Hueng based on the Hall of Wooden Men and I don't remember ever hearing that Choy Gar is noted for its dummies. Also if he was Choy Gar why would he have gone to siu lum to learn there martial arts.

Personally I don't think they are the same person but everyone else is entitled to their own opinion.

Peace.

P.S. I find the old Kwan Tak Hing movies very boring as well.

[hskwarrior]

yet no one in the chan family or records have ever said anything about choy fook too much.

so you don't think they are the same person because of what reasons?

you almost instantly disbelieve. why?

if the chan family said it was true would you believe it?

[CLFNole]

Because the way it is written is cantonese "Choy Pau, Choy Hung, Choy Biu, Choy Loong, and Choy Fu". If it was "Cai Fu", which reflects a mandarin writting it would be "Choy Fut". Someone would not mix the writting styles between mandarin and cantonese it doesn't make sense.

Choy Fu is just that Choy Fu, yes it is similar but why is it Choy Fook?

Like I said before you need chinese characters and then you would have to cross reference dates and times. There are many people with the last name Choy and to say that Choy Fook is Choy Fu just because they are kind of close isn't enough for me.

If the Chan Family said it I wouldn't believe it.

[hskwarrior]

i think you would clfnole.

the people who wrote the website i don't believe are chinese, but there are a lot of people on the net who spell things wrong, but the truth is still the truth.

instead of shooting it down, i think clfnole you could have just said "cool" let us know what you find. instead you say "i don't believe".

are you always that skeptical?

do you ever go home and say " how can you prove you are my wife?"

just kidding.

[hskwarrior]

also, I said possible.

so what do you know choy fook to be a master of then? didn't Lee Koon Hung also believe that choy fook was a choy ga master?

if he wasn't a choy ga master, then why do so many elders believe he was?

[CLFNole]

Yes I am always skeptical becuase there is a lot of b.s. in the world. My grandfather told me when I was young "belive nothing of what you hear and half of what you see."

You can do more research and I would be more than happy to discuss what you come up with and how you come up with it.

Instead of asking me why I don't believe why don't you tell me why someone who we know shares the same name with Choy Fook has a son with the letter "F" in and it must be him? Does it mentioning the son taught Chan Heung or was a monk? Anything to lend credance that he would be Choy Fook other than they both have the last name "Choy" and a first name with the letter "F".

I am not trying to jump on you it just doesn't have too much behind it thats all.

Sifu never spoke of Choy Fook as a Choy Gar master, he told us that is how the northern influence came to the style and that he was a siu lum monk. This is also the history many other CLF sifus speak of and have written regarding Choy Fook.

I just looked in one of my books "The Complete Guide to Kung Fu FIghting Styles" and it has a section on the 5 family styles and mentions Choy Gar - No relation to CLF.

[megasijo]

Hi,

i think you look for Jow Ga (Chow Gar). Chow Long is the founder of this Style und Chow Biu is this Brother. You can rea more here

http://www.jowtigers.com/

Greetings

[Fu-Pow]

What CLFNole said.....

And also look at the Choy Mok clip I put up on Southern Kung Fu Video thread. Mok Ga was known for its kicking and Choy Ga for its hands. Therefore, Choy Mok is a combo of Choy Hands and Mok Legs.

Do the hands in the Choy Mok clip look anything like CLF? Anymore than any other Southern style?

IMHO, not really.

Therefore, I don't think that Choy Ga influenced CLF and I think Choy Fook knew something other than Choy Ga (ie. not the 5 Southern Family Choy Ga.)

I think the Northern Siu Lam influence is probably correct. If you look at Pao Chui, Tong Bei and Pi Qua/Pek Kwa you will see similiarities with CLF in the both the technique and how they are executed. I also wonder about the Lama influence??

As for CLF master's having the history correct....well, let's just say that I go to a kung fu teacher to learn one thing....... and it ain't history.

In a confucian based society (like Chinese) it is often considered impolite to contradict the view of your elder. And so, often teachers will pass on the history even if it is incorrect to show respect and not offend anyone.

But seeing as we're not living in confucian China, I believe we can afford to be more openly critical.

We can look at both empirical evidence (ie evidence you can taste, touch, smell, hear, see) and by that I mean compare the forms as they exist today. And also we can use our critical thinking skills to assess whether certain aspects of a certain history jive with what we know about other aspects of history.

IMO, if you want to show respect and pass down a traditional history as you learned it that's fine...I don't look down on you. But don't look down on us for turning a skeptical and critical eye to what we've read or been told. It's our choice.

Peace.

FP