Spiral boxing

[tug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH2vfizGDkU&search=mantis%20kungfu

Can someone tell me how this can be effective? Not trashing it, just very curious.

Thanks in advance.

[shirkers1]

I've never seen it before. But it looks to me like it's a close fighting art. Lots of throws and locks with legs and arms. Full of sensitivity (silk realing), think of someone grabbing a hold of that guy. Him locking the guy up and taking him down with throws, arm bars, leg locks, etc. I thought it was kind of cool.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Shouldn't someone be putting a spoon on his tounge, to make sure he doesn't bite it or swallow it?

Actually looks like it has some drunken aspects to it. Definately interesting.

I Agree with Shirkers take on it.

[Chief Fox]

He's not doing it right and he's missing some parts.


:D


Actually, it's pretty cool. Looks like a lot of take downs, arm bars and breaks.

[tug]

My first thought was a monkey or drunken style also. I'm not saying I don't think it could be effective, but he starts the form standing, then immediately goes into crouch mode and doesn't come back up. I would think if you can stay on your feet and out of striking range, a good swift kick or knee to the head would end it.

Interesting, nonetheless.

BTW, I am on youtube watching shirkers and Sifu Gus.

(Don't know who they are, just see them here all the time)

Good stuff!

[shirkers1]

He's not doing it right and he's missing some parts.


:D


Actually, it's pretty cool. Looks like a lot of take downs, arm bars and breaks.

lol inside jokes are funny.. :)

[shirkers1]

My first thought was a monkey or drunken style also. I'm not saying I don't think it could be effective, but he starts the form standing, then immediately goes into crouch mode and doesn't come back up. I would think if you can stay on your feet and out of striking range, a good swift kick or knee to the head would end it.

Interesting, nonetheless.

BTW, I am on youtube watching shirkers and Sifu Gus.

(Don't know who they are, just see them here all the time)

Good stuff!

No doubt staying that low takes some skill, but notice how the pulling energy sucks his opponent in and drops them to the ground. So if you think about it, I see it almost like wrestling in the sense that the guys are close quarters and grappling.

Yeah read the descriptions on those vids man, poor performances on my part. Mike biggie is my teacher so check those out as well. Hope you enjoy.

[GreenCloudCLF]

What do I type in to see some Shirkers vids?

[tug]

Well, I don't know about poor performances man, there's some good stuff there.

[shirkers1]

What do I type in to see some Shirkers vids?


If you look on the right hand side of the page it has some more videos to look at. Just below the title of the video Laan dzeed etc.. you see "shirkers" If you click on that it takes you to my profile. At the bottom of that page hit "see all" and it brings up all of the videos I have uploaded. Not all of them are MA related, some of my old band stuff and some joke stuff, but weed through there and you'll see them all. Hope that helps.

pages 1 2 3 4 and 6 have at least one MA related thing on them involving me or my teacher.


Well thanks for the compliment tug.. :)

[Oso]

definitely lots of locking.

unless the entire system is built off this one form than this form would just be a part of the whole.

ever thought about what a bjj guy would look like if he did a flow drill by himself?

[tug]

I can definitely see the locking/breaking/grasping/plucking aspect, but what about the footwork - knees in, toes out.

Again, I don't know alot about it, so I have to take what I see at face value.

Not having much luck finding more about it online...

I will admit, in the hands of a seasoned prac, I'm sure it can get messy. How would this translate to MMA? I mean it's kinda ground work, right?

[TenTigers]

That's an awful long form to be doing on just one guy.
jkng-but that's what it looks like. If it were a two-man set, the other guy would be saying,"Get offa me!":D

[shirkers1]

I can definitely see the locking/breaking/grasping/plucking aspect, but what about the footwork - knees in, toes out.

I will admit, in the hands of a seasoned prac, I'm sure it can get messy. How would this translate to MMA? I mean it's kinda ground work, right?

Those look like leg locks to me, but he's using his legs like his upper body. Sensitive to the opponents legs and realing with them. Think of dropping your knee on the other guys leg/knee dropping him to the ground and locking him down while applying a chin na or lock up top bringing the guy down. So it's like he's using his body weight and dropping it locking his opponent down.

As for mma, I see it having it's uses in some ways but as a whole not in the modern sense of the term MMA. MMA is MMA in my book, pretty much tai, bjj, and boxing you know? Sure other guys have incorporated other things in there but the majority of the "well rounded" guys do a few things with tried and tested tactics and stick with them. Seems like this set gets the opponent to the ground staying low and working there. But it's not ground fighting in the sense that they aren't working from a guard or mount so I don't see anyone saying it's MMA usefull. ;)

[tug]

The only reason I asked about the relation to MMA is because there have been many discussions here and elsewhere about how there is no real groundwork in TCMA. This almost looks like an attempt to incorporate some of it into a form.

I follow your thinking about the initial take down side of it.

[qiphlow]

he looks like he's having a seizure!

[tug]

Grand mal-fu?:D

[Oso]

What Mark said.


interesting find I think. I wonder if anyone will crop up who knows exactly what it is?

someone could email the poster of the video.

[tug]

I sent an email to the poster, awaiting reply...

[GreenCloudCLF]

Here's another forum that found that vid and discusses it (with less intelligent people than KFO)...
http://www.jiayo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2010&sid=19728e7854a87d9f7d8ce1ea30a0c1f3


Interview with someone who has practiced Spiral Boxing (with mention of his Psiral Boxing Sifu)
http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/liujingru.html

That's all I got right now.

[GeneChing]

Luoxuan literally means spiral or helix. That's the first demonstration I've seen of luoxuan. I wonder if the performer is a major exponent of the style or just a student competitor. I'd be curious to see more.

[SevenStar]

looks like a series of takedowns with locks as follow ups. FWIW, they don't look like they would work too well though. the shoot was all wrong, if that was indeed a shoot. the takedowns look more like he's just trying to manhandle the opponent down - very little footwork, which should be key. It's hard to tell without seeing it applied tho. judo has a twisting throw called koshi guruma that kinda works that way. it won't work well grabbing from as low as he's grabbing tho. I did see one shoulder throw, but the footwork he uses wouldn't work with the throw. Also, the opponent isn't very secured while he's applying the locks; it would be easy to esacpe. Like I said, we need to see them applied. I'll admit that it looks interesting though...

[Ray Pina]

Definitely unique.

I see the potential for a lot of leverage, being that his arms are held close most of the time and he's using his body. What I would question, or have him work on, is .... can he generate pushing power, a pushing angle, from that stance. It can be done, but the way his feet were, it looks like he wasn't pushing ------> into the movements, more side to side. I would think you'd want both .... arms tight and pull down with the shoulder, but also driving in with the leg.


Really, would need to see some aplications.

[yenhoi]

looks like sloppy kuntao silat.

:eek:

[beiquan]

Hi,

I found this on a VCD that I bought here in China of traditional kungfu demonstrations and put it up because it's bizarre. Here is a rough translation of the opening caption:

Luoxuan (spiral) boxing is a traditional style of wushu. It was originally called Shaolin Cripple (Sanzi) boxing. It makes use of "spiral power"; when emitting power, the two fists are held close in front of the chest, moving in inward and outward spiral motions. When fighting an opponent, the two fists are kept close together, and their combined strength is used to strike. When practicing, the standing postures are low, the movements quick, short strikes are the most important, and the power is emitted in a spiral.

This is not the same as the Luoxuan boxing practiced by Liu Jingru, that is an internal routine created by Qiu Zhihe.

[SevenStar]

so what we are seeing in the form is not grappling and takedowns? can you give us a visual of what it is? does the VCD show applications?

[beiquan]

It's just one of these survey videos with a bunch of forms, all the information they give is what I've provided. Sorry I can't offer more.