VIDEO: Kung fu used in a street fight

[Mr. Miyagi]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum. So I’m sorry if this video has been posted before, but I was wondering if you could observe this fight caught on video and then 'break it down like a fraction' for me please. First of all, what style was this practitioner trying to use?

Thanks :D

http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?ID=197

[monkeyfoot]

hey man

welcome to the forum dude :D:D :D

craig

[Mr. Miyagi]

you're a troll

kiss me you fool

craig

monkeyfoot-
Thanks for the warm welcome. :confused:

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i appologize for monkeyfoot's rashness.

let me welcome you to the forum properly. im GDA and its nice to have you here. this video has been posted many times so you may get a couple people filling you in on that, but your new so no biggie.

i hope you enjoy our forums and stick with us for a long long time.

but one thing. do not hug my grandmother. seriously dude. you hug my grandma and bad things will happen to you. other than that your cool.

welcome aboard.

[Mr Punch]

Geez, you've bypassed the censor! How'd ya do that!?

****

ahh, **** it!

[chud]

What style is that?

[SifuAbel]

What style is that?


Its the "some things won't die" style

[GreenCloudCLF]

Geez, you've bypassed the censor! How'd ya do that!?

****

ahh, **** it!

yeah, I want in with the knowledge of overcoming the censor machine...

****
fu
ck

[monkeyfoot]

when theres a will, theres a way :D .....censor and all


I offer my apologies to you Mr. Miyagi. Your original post (before edited) sounded suspicious, so i jumped at you.....thats no excuse though, so again my apologies.

welcome to the forum :D

craig

[GreenCloudCLF]

when theres a will, theres a way .....censor and all


I wish I could gollydarn do it....

[monkeyfoot]

nice one greencloud you silly rebel!!!!


anyways nuff of this, im not about to make enemies with the mods for abusing the system :D

back to the vid
Craig

[Mr. Miyagi]

i appologize for monkeyfoot's rashness.

let me welcome you to the forum properly. im GDA and its nice to have you here. this video has been posted many times so you may get a couple people filling you in on that, but your new so no biggie.

i hope you enjoy our forums and stick with us for a long long time.

but one thing. do not **** my grandmother. seriously dude. you have sex with my grandma and bad things will happen to you. other than that your cool.

welcome aboard.


Hey DGA…we're cool. I won’t mess with your Grandma, as long as you don’t mess with my Po Po. You could try, but BEWARE, because my Po Po rolls with Master Bow Sim Mark. AWE-YEAHHHHHHHHHH!!! BTW thanks for your kind words. I should have been more prepared and worn my fire retardant suit. Speaking of getting flamed, thanks for the apology monkeyfoot. ;) And for all those who were hoping this was a new and different video - I apologize for beating this dead horse with another staff. I wish I had some other footage to share. Could anyone remember which thread this video has been discussed before and what was this dude's style?

Thanks :D ,
Mr. Miyagi

[SimonM]

It's

Ha Ya Ma Kur Quan Fa.

otherwise known as

The wildly flailing fist.

Kid has had a few lessons in something... probably even something Chinese but in the end he just switches back to highschool fu as practiced the world over. He just managed to milk the "I know Kung Fu" stance silliness enough to get an edge on confidence over his opponent and exploited it.

[Mr Punch]

Well, since it's just for political maturity and all: hug censorship!

And for all you kids out there who can't haven't learned the word yet: how come you can read before you can speak?:rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

...it's having my boss say "I just got this email complaint about swearing on the forum. Do something about that now!" Come on, guys. Keep it clean. This is a family show. There are plenty of places to swear on the internet and plenty gets through here, but that doesn't mean you have to add to it. Thank you for your cooperation.

[QuaiJohnCain]

I think this clip will never die in my memory as one of the coolest things I've ever seen on video. So many attack it, citing cheesiness and such, but the fact remains that this is the one and only video clip that shows what ALL of us want to see- kung fu working in the street.

AFAIK, nobody has pinned down what style this guy is doing, or who he is. I'm thinking it's Shaolin Long Fist with som CLF mixed in... Anyone want to corroborate that? As others have expressed as well, that footwork is pretty darned cool. The gallop is jumping front kicks cancelled halfway through the step- hard to do in such a low stance.

I say kudos to the dude. I deeply hope that I can meet that guy someday and buy him a beer.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I think this clip will never die in my memory as one of the coolest things I've ever seen on video. So many attack it, citing cheesiness and such, but the fact remains that this is the one and only video clip that shows what ALL of us want to see- kung fu working in the street.

QuaiJohnCain- I have to agree with you, cheese or no cheese, the bottom line is - he succeeded. What I appreciated was that he tried to stay true to his training…what ever it was. I give him his props even if he did end it with a wild bolo. ;)

[Kymus]

Long Fist with some CLF is my guess too.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

...it's having my boss say "I just got this email complaint about swearing on the forum. Do something about that now!" Come on, guys. Keep it clean. This is a family show. There are plenty of places to swear on the internet and plenty gets through here, but that doesn't mean you have to add to it. Thank you for your cooperation.

im sorry gene.

tell your boss that a weird little dude with a chip on his shoulder appologized and even bought mad merchandise because he felt so bad about it all.

[GeneChing]

bought mad merchandise true or not, we appreciate the sentiment.

Now back to the post at hand, I usually wait until after I've knocked the guy down before I go into my Bruce Lee kung fu dance. It adds insult to injury. In my school daze (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=280), I remember leading with it a few times, perhaps not intentionally, but you got to win if you're going to showboat like that. Imagine if he got his ass kicked on that video - imagine what this thread would look like then. If you're going to represent, you must also impress. That being said, it's clear that the person in the video was confident with what he was doing. It totally psyched out his opponent. That dude was lost from the beginning - you can see the fear in his posture.

[GreenCloudCLF]

...it's having my boss say "I just got this email complaint about swearing on the forum. Do something about that now!" Come on, guys. Keep it clean. This is a family show. There are plenty of places to swear on the internet and plenty gets through here, but that doesn't mean you have to add to it. Thank you for your cooperation.

Gene, I aplogize too...and I like the creative editing....I sound all manly saying "Gollydarn":D ;)

[Banjos_dad]

love the sparkling dialogue...


but if nothing else he prevailed over the mouth-fu of his ****y little antagonist.
The lil shave-head guy learned everything he knows about fighting from MTV.

i like it when the belligerent guy gets ktfo'd by the more modest one. to paraphrase the Snicker's commercial, who doesn't appreciate a satisfying crunch lol.


i agree with the previous comment that red-shirt set up a current of doubt within Curly, and he exploited that. and yeah, it looks like when they finally closed the gap with the natural stances, he was flailing with that hook punch that downed the other guy.


but yeah, a real laff-riot.

[n.mitch]

good to see he won. you would want to be able to fight after pulling out those stances in a large crowd

[Ben Gash]

To be honest, his "flailing" does appear to be legitimate longarm techniques if you look at it properly, he does a kind of Dot Choy, Pao Choy Sow Choy combo. It does kinda look like a mix of CLF and Songshan Shaolin, but if I had to put money on a style I'd say it's something like Hop Gar. His delivery of Dot Choy and Pao Choy/Jong are more consistent with Hop Gar or Lama than the main lines of Choy Li Fut (could be Bak Sing Fut Gar maybe, some lines of that do those big vertical fist Pao Choys).
ANYWAY, I wish my stancework was that good :eek: I'd say he's done more than "a few lessons", I think he just lacks a bit of experience at the sharp end of things (and he really needs to learn how to close with his opponent, although if he didn't really want to fight I suppose there's value in setting a strong defence and waiting). Most importantly of all though, his Kung Fu worked!

[monkeyfoot]

gene, I too apoligise... I bet its a pain in the ass to control this forum :cool:

Anyway, the vid. I personally think we're delving to much into 'what he did'. You can say 'he used this punch and that punch' but in the end it wasnt intentional.

Yes the stances showed he had some training, but once the turd hit the fan, he hit panic mode and just lashed out

craig

[Banjos_dad]

lol. if there's a term for flailing in our curriculum, sifu has not yet revealed it to me.;)

[Ben Gash]

Anyway, the vid. I personally think we're delving to much into 'what he did'. You can say 'he used this punch and that punch' but in the end it wasnt intentional.

He missed, it happens. It was obviously a fairly decent Wang Sow Choy that he used to finish it. That's the thing with longarm strikes, they often don't look like much until they hit something.

[SevenStar]

wtf was that? I just looked at the clip. he did a good job of using his hands and footwork BEFORE the fight (no maatter how odd he looked), but IMO that was the wrong thing to do, even though it happened to work for him. Where I'm from, they wouldn't have cleared the path - they ALL woulda rushed him.

Once the combat started, he was flinchy and flailed a lot. you can tell he had like zero experience...

[Mr. Miyagi]

Thanks for the feedback. I find all your observations very cool. Keep it coming.:D

[SevenStar]

gene, I too apoligise... I bet its a pain in the ass to control this forum :cool:

Anyway, the vid. I personally think we're delving to much into 'what he did'. You can say 'he used this punch and that punch' but in the end it wasnt intentional.

Yes the stances showed he had some training, but once the turd hit the fan, he hit panic mode and just lashed out

craig

agreed. you can prolly take ANY vid of a streetfight and liken wild, circular flailing to SOMETHING that can be seen in hop gar, clf, longfist, etc.

[SimonM]

Agreed.

I swear.... the number of times you say EXACTLY what I was about to say on a thread... uncanny.

[GeneChing]

GDA & MF: Apologies accepted. I'm thinking of banning 'gollydarn' now. ;)

Personally, I've always hated that whole "he used such-and-such technique." I remember trying Chinese weapons sparring in the early 90's. I managed to dominate one of my first opponents completely. I found his flinch reflex pretty quickly and the bout was quick and decisive. After that, one of my classmates asked me if I used my kendo, my western fencing, or my kung fu. "I just hit him" was my answer, and it's true.

I'd be interested in knowing what that guy in the video used, just out of curiousity. The funny thing is that when I first watched it, I thought his stance looked like wushu nanquan. It seemed a little too wide for traditional kung fu. Wouldn't it be hilarious if that was his style?

[SimonM]

If it were wushu it might also explain the silly hand gestures as he first entered his stance.

Me? I'd just get my hands to the appropriate position as fast as possible.

[william]

I think this clip is really cool. I think that people need to give the guy a break with the wild flailing hands thing.

Although I don’t do it anymore, I have done a little CLF (very little) and one of the techniques we used to practice was that exact thing; swinging you arms like ropes with your body as the pivoting force, generating maxim force to the end of you fist. (i.e. being hit with the end of a baseball bat, as opposed to the part nearest the hand, off a swing) And that looks exactly like what he did to end it.
Ok it looked a little messy, but this was a REAL fight. My teacher says that anyone who thinks they wont miss, or look messy when the **** hits the fan is kidding themselves big time.

I think that looked like kung fu. Just under pressure. I think anyone who wants to post criticisms should post a vid of themselves fighting in a REAL fight, then let others criticise your form.

Just what I think,
Cheers
W

[monkeyfoot]

I think anyone who wants to post criticisms should post a vid of themselves fighting in a REAL fight,

william - nothing wrong with criticising. Whether or not I could make better use of my kung fu in a fight is irrelavant.....the point still stands, he flaied.

And its more of an observation than a criticism.


If it were wushu it might also explain the silly hand gestures as he first entered his stance.

Lol I know. It reminds me of when Neo fights Morpheus.....

craig

[SevenStar]

Agreed.

I swear.... the number of times you say EXACTLY what I was about to say on a thread... uncanny.

you didn't know mma guys were psychic?

[GeneChing]

I'd just get my hands to the appropriate position as fast as possible. If I knew I could kick my opponent's ass, I could see doing some wacky stance just for the intimidation/humiliation factor. I think a lot of people fall into the mind trap that your opponent is a trained fighter. In schoolyard fights, which is what this looks like, I seldom encountered seasoned fighters of any sort. Anyone who has sparred knows that sometimes you know you have full control of your opponent - it's the most delicious feeling in the world. Psych ops are key. If you can win on psych ops, you don't even have to throw a punch. So I hear what you're saying, SimonM, but in my mind, the dude won with his silly hand gestures. In this case, whatever it takes to win *is* appropriate. There's nothing like winning. It's even sweeter when you're 'too busy looking good' :p

[SevenStar]

Ok it looked a little messy, but this was a REAL fight. My teacher says that anyone who thinks they wont miss, or look messy when the **** hits the fan is kidding themselves big time.

I think that looked like kung fu. Just under pressure. I think anyone who wants to post criticisms should post a vid of themselves fighting in a REAL fight, then let others criticise your form.


there is a difference between an ugly fight and flailing. that was simply a guy that has little fighting experience. like gene said, psy ops is what saved him. the opponent had in his head that the guy was a fighter trained in something. On my job, we're not allowed to strike, so If I do manage to get hold of a vid to post, you won't see me doing anything but restraining a guy (locks, chokes, etc) and dragging him out. now I just need to find someone to follow me around the club with a video camera... :p

[GreenCloudCLF]

you didn't know mma guys were psychic?

I thought they were psychotic...that's 2 different things, isn;t it???:D

[SimonM]

I understand where you are coming from Gene.

I'd just personally try and not do anything that would make my sifu wince if I were on videotape and the little dragon ball Z / matrix / raver doing the ball dance thing at the beginning would definately count.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i know what you mean simon. my old sifu would have kicked my ass out of principle had he seen me do something like that. i do not mean that he would be upset with me. i would litterally hurt. probably pretty bad.

[SimonM]

I remember early at my time at NBDMA I saw master Chau chase one of the assistant instructors all the way around the Kwoon with roundhouse kicks. They kept coming in so fast.....

[QuaiJohnCain]

People- Watch the vid with a player that has good slow motion. Those wer long punches. Two missed before he ducked a punch and sent the knock out shot. Sure it looks like flailing. But it was not. I'd bet the poeple saying otherwise probably have not seen themselves on video....

[GreenCloudCLF]

People- Watch the vid with a player that has good slow motion. Those wer long punches. Two missed before he ducked a punch and sent the knock out shot. Sure it looks like flailing. But it was not. I'd bet the poeple saying otherwise probably have not seen themselves on video....

i've seen myself on video...but if I posted it Gene would ban me...and my wife would kill me:eek:

[SimonM]

I've seen myself fight... when the person I've been fighting has lots of room to run I do look a little flaily... I'm a close fighter. But when it's a small venue it generally goes - deflect punch, jab, elbow or clothesline, grab by neck, takedown, gnp.

I hate it when my sparring partner tries to play tag instead of fighting... of course when you are tall, heavy and relatively slow you want your opponent to stand and fight...

ME: "Oh! Don't make me chase you! This isn't the 100 meter dash, it's a fight!"

[zmaj]

I dont understand everybody here talking about not doing stances while fighting, to me, in everything I ever trained whatever stances we practiced is stances we used to fight and spar with. Otherwise, why bother, I think it would look really stupid to punch someone with a regular boxer like hook and then get into tiger descends mountain or something, then it looks stupid.

My worst experience with this fight western/train chinese thing was when I watched a tournament and there was so many different schools that came out and they all fought the same and it looked like just regular stuff I see when I go to bars and clubs. Only people that had some kung fu like style fighting were two different styles of praying mantis, and they definetly made my day. Great to see them do it and see people do it well and not just try to look cool with different things they can do in school.

Wong Kiew Kit has a great book out, Shaolin Kung Fu and talks about how for some reason everybody swings around like kids and all their training goes out the window while those stances were actually designed for combat, not to look cool doing your form.

And on the video just before the "gangsta" attacks, the kung fu guy clearly goes in for some kind of "jab" and once the guy goes in after him and starts swinging around there is a nice clear block too. Besides, that so called funny stance looks fairly mobile and strong if he was to sit back in it if rushed, and the ****ed back arm means lot of power from that reverse punch, because if he's got good footwork he's gonna have a decent punch too, so why didn't he punch? Hard to say, but the "gangsta" guy was already scared and backing of, so had he attacked him at that point it would have been shooting fish in a barrel, so you could even say he shows some mercy towards a weak submisive enemy.

One thing that was wierd too, I dont know if you guys noticed is that kung fu guy had to take of his shoes, and you can see him saying something like, "they'r off, now lets go", I guess they possibly tryed to to use his shoes as an excuse to chicken out honorably.

Also while he was advancing on the gangsta guy, you can hear in the background, "letts jumps this fool" but there is no one jumping in to help out their friend, and just like him they were all talk.

Now I could bet good money, had the kung fu guy just walked up to the other guy and punched him others would have been there because they would think he cant fight and its easy way to rpove them selves with very good odds. I'v seen it lots of times in school and especially on bus stops.

Well, anyway, thats my two cents on this video. :-)

[SimonM]

Thing that we are trying to communicate is that "stances" are in and of themselves a mistake. Footwork is a dynamic process. Yes, some styles of Gong Fu have distinctive footwork (I'm looking at Xingyi) but to say that you are "fighting western" if you don't fight from a bow and arrow stance is a bit... well... ignorant.

[monkeyfoot]

Wong Kiew Kit has a great book out, Shaolin Kung Fu and talks about how for some reason everybody swings around like kids and all their training goes out the window while those stances were actually designed for combat, not to look cool doing your form.

I agree

Wong Kiew Kit's book is awesome. It tottally changed the way I think about my training. I didnt read much into the forms etc etc but all the parts about training were amazing. He had a good point of not introducing a student to sparring too early on. I forget the reason, but it was basically that they haven't learnt to move and work the body like in the forms, so when they come to fight, the dominant side of being untrained takes over, and they inturn flail and forget their kung fu.

Another thing I took deeply was the whole spiritual side of kung fu. I was always a half soaked buddhist/taoist, but this book really showed me the importance of spirituality.

craig

[zmaj]

Thing that we are trying to communicate is that "stances" are in and of themselves a mistake. Footwork is a dynamic process. Yes, some styles of Gong Fu have distinctive footwork (I'm looking at Xingyi) but to say that you are "fighting western" if you don't fight from a bow and arrow stance is a bit... well... ignorant.

And whats wrong with bow and arrow stance? Great stance against take downs and it can be very quick, back in my karate days thats all we ever fought out of. It can be very quick, there is bid of a shuffle you have to practice for months before it even begins to look like it might be fast, but within a year your gaining speed and its actually battle worthy and it gets you across the dead space you have to cross.

I even got a chance to spar against a muay thai guy that was working with me at that time, so he came down to the place where I was teaching and at the end of the class we had a nice little match.

I'll admit I first learned that day that I might get kicked in the leg little too easy, which happened because it was out there for him to kick, but it took me a few secund to readjust my tactics and start working that shuffle I mentioned, and once I did every time I went into him and we exchanged blows while he was in upright posture and me in bow and arrow, he was the one backing of. Later when he'd cought on and started being more aggresive and rushing I was getting into cat stance and most of leg kicks he tryed i pulled my leg up over his kick and gave him a nice front kick to the stomach which was followed up off course.

I would say that switching stances is much better as tactic, because once you stick to something, if you opponents got any brains he's gonna start looking for a gap, so footwork is a big key to keeping your opponent guessing on how to approach you. At this case mentioned, I only used two and he was beyond confused, so off course flowing from stance to stance can not only look good but also keep you one step ahead.

That day was probably bad on my part, because 3 of my students watched us fight and had he embaraced me I could have lost them, but then again we wore face cages so smaller chance of that happening.

But anyway, in my opinion, every stance we practice is workable, before I always wondered about karate strategy's too and I always read online that muay thai is ultimate stand up and i finally had a chance to test it all out and I did more then all right.

[zmaj]

I agree

Wong Kiew Kit's book is awesome. It tottally changed the way I think about my training. I didnt read much into the forms etc etc but all the parts about training were amazing. He had a good point of not introducing a student to sparring too early on. I forget the reason, but it was basically that they haven't learnt to move and work the body like in the forms, so when they come to fight, the dominant side of being untrained takes over, and they inturn flail and forget their kung fu.

Another thing I took deeply was the whole spiritual side of kung fu. I was always a half soaked buddhist/taoist, but this book really showed me the importance of spirituality.

craig

there was a web page somewhere too, and had more stuff, almost an add on to the book, you might wanna look for it...

[SimonM]

But anyway, in my opinion, every stance we practice is workable, before I always wondered about karate strategy's too and I always read online that muay thai is ultimate stand up and i finally had a chance to test it all out and I did more then all right.

"Stances" are just tutorials of places you can put your feet. In a real fight you shouldn't be in a "stance" rather you should be moving your feet dynamically. This means that during the course of a fight your feet may occupy several "stances" as circumstances dictate. The problem is that people often think of "stances" as static and unchanging things.... and end up getting thai kicked in the knee for their efforts.

[metsubushi]

I think the guy was just a little anxious. He only punched with one arm and did the same movie like three times. So it looks like he made up his mind as to what he was going to connect with before he started fighting and tried to force the technique. As far as whether he should be in a stance or not, whatever. People seriously overanalyze fighting. The kid got in a fight, used his style, and won. That's what matters. Anything else is superfluous. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't textbook perfect, but it was effective. If he intimidated the other guy by getting into a fighting stance, way to go.