Is Iron Fist, Iron Door Bolt?

[lamakwoklee]

I read on this forum that the Iron Fist (aka Iron Door Seals the Wall) form was taught by Li Kun Shan (Taiwan Plum Flower PM). Do any forum members know if this form still exists, and is taught? If it is taught, by whom?

[K.Brazier]

"Iron Fist (aka Iron Door Seals the Wall) form was taught by Li Kun Shan (Taiwan Plum Flower PM). "

Within LKS manuscript he writes the form as iron fist only. I have heard my shifu, Shi Zhengzhong, say the words Iron Door Seals The wall as an alternate name.

"Do any forum members know if this form still exists, and is taught? If it is taught, by whom? "

It exists and is taught. Not widely though.

Kevin

[Shaolin Dude]

isn't this wah lum's little mantis form? if it is, alot of people know this form

[lamakwoklee]

I apoligize. I thought I was being precise in my question, but when I reread the body of it, I realized I'd left this out. Is the "Iron Door Bolt" of Wah Lum, related to "Iron Fist" of Plum Flower PM? Now that I think of it, isn't iron door bolt a concept, and form from N. Shaolin? Can anyone relate the concept to me?

[K.Brazier]

Wah Lum's form iron door bolt is not Li Kunshan's Iron Fist(iron door fastens to the wall) form.
They are completely unrelated.

Iron Door Bolt is originally a term nestled within the moves of Meng Su. You will find him mentioned within the 18 Founders of Family Surnames. He is the one who had the 7 Manuevers. One of his manuevers is called Iron Door Bolt.

So Iron Door Bolt can be looked at as a technique.
It can be looked at as a concept represented by several techniques.
It is a form in Wah Lum that includes this concept/technique as one of the forms' moves.

Hope that helps clear up the issue.

Though many people know this Wah Lum form. I have never met one who could identify which moves make up iron door bolt in the form.

Even though it is just a move I think that it may have some extra importance being that it is one of the 7 manuevers of Meng Su.
Then again I might just be drifting off into fairy tale land.

Kevin

[mantid1]

So...Which move is it?:)

[18elders]

ask master chan

good luck!!

[mantid1]

If Master chan knew do you think I would be asking here?

It doesnt mean he is a bad guy or bad instructor if he doesnt know.

You must really dislike the man to keep bringing him up in such negative ways all the time:(

Some good advice to you would be to forget about wl and mc. Negative energy is just going kill your health, mentally and physically.

Have a good day

[18elders]

have you ever asked him about it??

my likes or dislikes for mc has nothing to do with it.
If he is your master, you should be able to go ask him.
the good luck is that he doesn't scream your head off.

how is the truth negative energy??

[mantid1]

It is easy enough to come to the conclusion that he doesnt know because he calls it little mantis an not iron door bolt or what ever it is.

Nope he is not my teacher. My teacher does not know what it is either so...

I think it may have been one of the pong lai guys who first said it was iron door bolt, not someone from wl. This is another reason I would not ask within wl system, they dont know.

I thought it was Kevin who brought the name to light. That is why I asked him. If he only wants to give the name and no more information, that is ok with me. I apprciate the info he has already given.

I did not mention mc, yelling or screaming. I just asked a question. You are the one who brought up MC and said "good luck". I took that as negative. Sorry I was wrong.

Have a good day

[PlumDragon]

If he is your master, you should be able to go ask him.
So I suppose we can all just go ask our masters/teachers everything and theres really no need for any martial arts forums then right?

Jeez I wish I would have known that before I registered....:rolleyes:

[18elders]

PlumDragon Quote:
Originally Posted by plumdragon

So I suppose we can all just go ask our masters/teachers everything and theres really no need for any martial arts forums then right?

Jeez I wish I would have known that before I registered....




PD-
-Man, what did all the masters do before the internet??? They all must be pretty stupid.

Why go to school, just learn everything from the internet.
It works great when trying to spar, you never get hit!!!!

[PlumDragon]

-Man, what did all the masters do before the internet??? They all must be pretty stupid.Not stupid, but they could have assimilated much more information than they did given the proper medium to transfer it. And guess what...We have that medium now, so you can either utilize it, or you can continue to get twisted up in the fact that now we dont have to harangue our sifu every time we have a quick fact-based question. Its an optomization equation; solve it how you will.



Why go to school, just learn everything from the internet.
It works great when trying to spar, you never get hit!!!!Its not a matter of "either this OR that", its a matter of "both this AND that"! Why deny methods of information transfer when they stare you in the face point blank? This is NOT about sparring, or being a keyboard warrior. Its about the fact that we can glean knowledge from the martial arts community we are a part of; simple trivial facts like the question in this thread can be answered now WITHOUT going to your sifu every time you forget what so-and-so form is called.

Now Im certainly a huge advocate going to school, Im preparing to start doctorate work soon myself; but that doesnt mean we should deny other avenues of information exchange...In fact, quite the contrary, we should embrace them and use them to to the extent that they were designed for.

Sorry to have taken this off-topic...

[18elders]

If wah lum's little mantis was called iron bolt form, wouldn't it make sense to ask him about it?'

[PlumDragon]

I appreciate the civil reply--looking back at my last post it was a bit abrasive (something Im tyring to work on not doing) and I apologize if it came off that way...At any rate:



If wah lum's little mantis was called iron bolt form, wouldn't it make sense to ask him about it?'I agree, its a perfectly acceptable question for his sifu...BUT heres the thing. Imagine youre sitting at work. Its Tuesday morning and you dont have class until Wednesday night but youre dying to figure out what the name of the form is. You also happen to be part of a martial arts forum where there is a whole section dedicated to the martial art you study. Doesnt it make sense to post a question about it and try to stimulate a nice discussion on the topic? I mean really, thats why we are all here. Its a great place to ask questions and give answers. Granted, theres plenty of stuff that just simply cant be learned or discovered in front of a computer, but ts these sorts of threads that keep martial arts forums running. If we all asked all these questions to our sifus instead, then there would be no martial arts forums to waste time on while we are all at work, and alot more angry sifus that cant teach class because of all the questions we are all asking! =)

To each their own... ;)

Regards

[18elders]

I get your point.

I myself ask my shrfu or my shubo or kung fu brothers first as they are in the system i am learning and i would like the answer that is particular to the style i am learning.

[18elders]

with all the recent talk about iron bolt, my shibo Kevin Brazier will hold a seminar on the iron bolt methodology in the near future.

[Oso]

schweeet....where? Tampa?

[lamakwoklee]

I'm glad to hear that Shifu Brazier is planning this. I'm looking forward to it. Hope it comes off at a time when finances, and work schedule allow me to attend. I'm sure many forum members would appreciate, and benefit from this.

[lamakwoklee]

Oops! That is to say Shifu Braziers instruction, not my attendance. Come to think of it. There might be some merit in having me to throw around as well. :D

[K.Brazier]

Seminar on IBD can be planned for some future date.
There is also the Iron Fist form which is a good form for students to jump the gap from beginner to intermediate level.
I will be doing another one first, 18 Luohan, which I will need a new thread.

[lamakwoklee]

That's wonderful news Shifu Brazier. Propagating the Iron Fist stateside will be an excellent thing. Thank you.

[lamakwoklee]

I've heard of the 18 Luohan Quan. Perhaps you can go into the history, and substance of the one you'll be teaching in the future thread. I look forward to it.