Is James Lacey 18 Daoist Palms Reputable ?

[FANWOO]

i noticed a site about iron pam by a guy named james lacey. could any one tell me if he is for real as well as his system 18 daoists palms ?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I would beware...

[Pakmei7]

I've looked at some of Lacy's clips and viewed a couple of videos as well. His stuff is dreadful. Whatever you do DO NOT purchase any of the "18 Daoist White Eyebrow". It's beyond bad. As a Pak Mei student it really put's me off when I see crap like that being passed off as Pak Mei (White Eyebrow). On the first page of his site it says:

"This 18 Daoist Palms' White Eyebrow has nothing to do with other systems of White Eyebrow. "

This statement says it all and he knows it is only the name he's ripping off.

"The fifteen training forms my former teacher and Vince helped film at my house will be forthcoming. When complete there will be about 26 of these rare 18 Daoist Palms' White Eyebrow Forms."

He's referring to Vince Peppers. I hadn't seen any of Peppers 'White Eyebrow' until recently when I saw a clip posted on Putfile. It was so bad it was beond description.

DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!! Just so you know, I'm not a Bak Fu Pai, anti-Lacy zealot from the Doo Wai clan and have no association with any of them. I just really dislike scam artists that try to rip people off.

Beware of Lacy.






On the frontpage of his

[GreenCloudCLF]

This might be a question for hsk...

Is this James lacey of any relation to the laceys who do CLF???:confused:

I might have confused them...

[Dale Dugas]

James Patrick Lacy is no relation to the Lacey Clan who teach Buk Sing Choy Lei Faht.

Lacy is an ex-con who knows nothing.

leave it at that.

[GreenCloudCLF]

James Patrick Lacy is no relation to the Lacey Clan who teach Buk Sing Choy Lei Faht.

Lacy is an ex-con who knows nothing.

leave it at that.

DD,

How do you REALLY feel???:D

[keilun]

I saw a video of Lacy on his website of him doing his precious coconut break.

He first taped this coconut to a tree. He wacked it really hard with his elbow and the coconut fell and rolled under his car. He went down under the car and got it, and stuck it up on the tree again. Once again he wacked it with his elbow, and ripped all the skin off and was bleeding! So he switched arms. After striking it a couple times with his left elbow the coconut broke and he looked so proud of himself most likely thinking, "I am soooo powerful"!

Find that clip if you can because its... Im at a loss for a discriptive word.

Keilun

[fiercest tiger]

Those Coconuts are **** hard to break too!

[Dale Dugas]

I saw a video of Lacy on his website of him doing his precious coconut break.

He first taped this coconut to a tree. He wacked it really hard with his elbow and the coconut fell and rolled under his car. He went down under the car and got it, and stuck it up on the tree again. Once again he wacked it with his elbow, and ripped all the skin off and was bleeding! So he switched arms. After striking it a couple times with his left elbow the coconut broke and he looked so proud of himself most likely thinking, "I am soooo powerful"!

Find that clip if you can because its... Im at a loss for a discriptive word.

Keilun

how about totally odiferous excrementally lame?

[monkeyfoot]

if you look on the videos reloaded page (about p19) I posted a demo of the 'hands of a thousand bells' by the british columbia representative of the style.

just excuse the enthusiasm - when I first saw it I thought it was impressive. Then I realised it was bollacks. I learn't to put out a candel in less than half an hour, from double the distance, barearmed, and a lot less movement.

so yea

waste of time if you ask me

craig

[Dale Dugas]

Fan Woo,

Stick to your own training as ANYTHING lacy touches rots and falls off. He is one of many laughing stocks in the MA community.

[MAC]

...so what about ... is it Brian Gray ? I think that's another "prominent" iron palm type guy isn't it ?

[Steeve]

Howdy

I saw the videos of Lacey ....Who knows... every morning I smasch ananas (pineable with my fist)I feel better all my devil chi go on it ....but i dont eat it ....I saw the videos of Doo Wai who know thats seem to be pak mei....the forms....
buyt....

[TenTigers]

oh God, it hurt my eyes. The Nar Jar, and Monkey form were priceless.
It truly saddens me to think that people are viewing these and then actually going out and buying the tapes afterwards. These poor, lost souls. Somebody help them.

of course not me.
Somebody else.
I don't want these people anywhere near me.
There's a limit to my compassion.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Sometimes all it takes is good marketing...but I think maybe he has some subliminal advertising or something...how else would he get people to buy that?

If I knew someone that owned it, I wouldnt even pay $1 to make a duplicate....

I would however pay $10 to get some gasoline and set it on fire!:eek:

[Pakmei7]

Check out the clips on the main page:

http://www.ironpalm.com/

If you scroll down you'll see:

"Learn the rare 18 Daoist Palms' White Eyebrow in a (2) CD series designed to play on the computer utilizing Windows Media Player 9 or 10. The first CD deals with the history, philosophy,
principles, footwork, ging transfer, (8) authentic flexibility exercises, (2) authentic qigong as well as an explanation of finer points and
instructions on how the material on CD 2 should be followed to get best results in learning the (9) first core solo fighting forms.

My 13 year tested home study student Lohon Golden Dragon Elder Brother Shi Fu Larry Matheny thoroughly explains each
move and shows close ups and explains finer points. Notice we offer 3 free clips that are taken from the series that show the far away view only of forms 2, 4 and 8 of the 9 core forms which are as follows:

Form 1 - Gic Bow Kuen
Form 2 - 18 Devils' Claw - View Clip
Form 3 - Eagles' Claw Chinese 10 Hook Attack Fist
Form 4 - Dragon's Shadow / Devil's Fist - View Clip
Form 5 - 18 Devils' Bridge
Form 6 - Fae Sat Kuen
Form 7 - Tin Gong Kuen
Form 8 - Long Ying Kuen - View Clip
Form 9 - Sap Jee Kuen"

Unbelievable. Without a doubt some of the worst martial arts clips ever recorded.

Some are not active. If you want to see "Gic Bow Kuen" check out this link:

http://www.ironpalm.com/Form1.wmv

Simply a disaster. They should be throttled for using the name "White Eyebrow" in the same sentence as that garbage.

[Pakmei7]

Check out the clips on the main page:

http://www.ironpalm.com/

If you scroll down you'll see:

"Learn the rare 18 Daoist Palms' White Eyebrow in a (2) CD series designed to play on the computer utilizing Windows Media Player 9 or 10. The first CD deals with the history, philosophy,
principles, footwork, ging transfer, (8) authentic flexibility exercises, (2) authentic qigong as well as an explanation of finer points and
instructions on how the material on CD 2 should be followed to get best results in learning the (9) first core solo fighting forms.

My 13 year tested home study student Lohon Golden Dragon Elder Brother Shi Fu Larry Matheny thoroughly explains each
move and shows close ups and explains finer points. Notice we offer 3 free clips that are taken from the series that show the far away view only of forms 2, 4 and 8 of the 9 core forms which are as follows:

Form 1 - Gic Bow Kuen
Form 2 - 18 Devils' Claw - View Clip
Form 3 - Eagles' Claw Chinese 10 Hook Attack Fist
Form 4 - Dragon's Shadow / Devil's Fist - View Clip
Form 5 - 18 Devils' Bridge
Form 6 - Fae Sat Kuen
Form 7 - Tin Gong Kuen
Form 8 - Long Ying Kuen - View Clip
Form 9 - Sap Jee Kuen"

Unbelievable. Without a doubt some of the worst martial arts clips ever recorded.

Some are not active. If you want to see "Gic Bow Kuen" check out this link:

http://www.ironpalm.com/Form1.wmv

Simply a disaster. They should be throttled for using the name "White Eyebrow" in the same sentence as that garbage.

[David Jamieson]

ive seen worse.
those were home study guys after all.
And it's only forms, which don't reveal much other than...well, a form.

as for lacey, he's got some controversy surrounding him....as you can see here. :p

[Blacktiger]

You may as well sit on the couch while doing those forms

[dwid]

You may as well sit on the couch while doing those forms

Funny you should mention that. As part of a trade I made once with another forum member here, I got a copy of some Lacey stuff. A lot of it had to do with Iron Palm, and he taught from his couch. He didn't bother to edit the tape, so the parts with him getting up to turn the camera on/off were left in there, and his cat makes several walk-on cameo appearances in the "film." It was beyond unwatchable. Cr@ptacular.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Too bad we're all too civilized for challenge matches these days....:)

[htowndragon]

nah...chinese people still do it. shoot id challenge him if i was near him

[couch]

Lacy stole videos from Vincent Peppers and Richard Shergold to learn the secret art of White Tiger style or Bak Fu Pai.

Vincent Peppers lineage comes from Doo Wai.

And here's an article about all that hullaballoo:
http://www.pakmei.net/articles/article.asp?ID=13

What a mess. Stay away.

Peace,
Kenton Sefcik

[Dale Dugas]

nah...chinese people still do it. shoot id challenge him if i was near him

Lacy is a con and a coward. He has been challenged many many times and has wussed out on every single one.

He cannot perform or fight so like many others they write articles and talk big.

He has no skills.

[David Jamieson]

Hey maybe lacey is actually Sharp Phil with a fright wig and a fake beard?

could be...could be....hmmmn

[Blacktiger]

As I said couch kung fu

[Jamesbond_007]

I have to say I love this guy!!! Just watching his stuff makes me laugh so much! He is even worse than Matt Furey. I think it is even funnier how people think he is real. I once had the opportunity, nay, the priviledge to meet Lacy. It was soo funny.

Any way, Daivd, I wouldn't say Lacey is a coward. He does accept challenges. This is how he accepts them (as posted on his website):


I am all about the legal implications. As a two-strike felon, my philosophy is simple; 'real life.' Any punk can come spend a felony to give me a reason to defend myself legally. Then bring a camera while I make the citizen's arrest. Folks can talk smack...I don't observe. But in real life, I flip on the recorder, tell them its on and proceed to adhere and remind them of verbal, retreat, excusable homicide, justifiable homicide laws and case law if they are still listening. I tell them the penal code they are breaking and whether a felony or misdemeanor is being committed.. If the person is larger and stronger, younger and stronger, has a weapon, or there are two or more, I can use equal force, especially as a disabled person legally...thus my skills after warning them of the skills for the recorder, could be legally used. I also explain the first will be treated according to my self defense rights under the situation, and in the case of two or more, remind them that the others will be charged too for the damage (legally), that I cause. This is my street smart gift to you."

Signed: Grandmaster (Jung Shee) James Patrick Lacy
7th generation Five Elder Monk Mew Hing's 18 Daoist Palms
42499 Old Hwy. 80
P.O. Box 427
Jacumba, CA 91934
*Authorized Neighborhood Watch Captain December 2003

Oh I love this guy!!! He has one of his "home students" selling crap on ebay also under than seller of IronPlamArts. This guy is selling some really shaddy dit da jow. I saw this guy on ebay and had to buy one of his videos on secret meditations he got from Lacey. It was some great stuff. I need to convert it to mpeg format and post it for everyone to see. I remember one meditation was breathe in 3 breaths, hold for 1 second, breathe out three breaths. Do this for 5 minutes to increase your chi. Wow! Funny stuff!!!!

The best part about Lacey is if you look at his videos you can see that he lives in a trailer home in the desert of So. Cal. I think I am going to spend $1800 for the 2 day seminar from him and $100 for a phone conversation from him also. I bet doing both of these will make me the most deadly fighter in the world. :D

[GreenCloudCLF]

While you are summing up the legal context, if you have knowledge of a persons fighting ability, this can be brought in to court for impeachment purposes...so if you are going to challenge him remember, he is a GRANDMASTER and has iron palm, which of course is a deadly weapon:rolleyes: .

If he agrees to fight you, you can be arrested for affray (that is the D.C. term, differs by name in jursidiction).

[Dale Dugas]

Funny how you guys totally ignored his "own" statement of being a two strike felon.

He is nothing but an ex con who didnt like being a punk a s s in prison so now he is a grandmaster.

nuff said.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Funny how you guys totally ignored his "own" statement of being a two strike felon.

He is nothing but an ex con who didnt like being a punk a s s in prison so now he is a grandmaster.

nuff said.

I noticed it, but being a felon doesn't make you a bad person. And not having a record doesn't mean you aren't a crook...so I found it inconsequential.

[dwid]

I wouldn't call it inconsequential. Not necessarily d@mning. In light of what his product suggests about his character, being a two strike felon surely isn't a mark in his favor.

[mickey]

Greetings,

If there is anything sad about this matter it is the students. They look like they are really sincere and they look like they are really trying to do something with the materials that they are given. Eleven years is a major chunk of time (I am not going to mention the money) to invest to end up playing forms like that.


mickey

[kukulcan]

:eek: HOLY.....FREAKIN.......CRAP!!! That is all I have to say other than this man should be put in prison for rippin people off.... Oh ya, don't forget to adjust the brightness controls on your media player for the best viewing experience! lol!

[zmaj]

I think, the biggest reason why people buy that stuff is "easy road to mastery of kung fu" , because there is some good instructional dvd's out there and buying them and saying," well, that looks hard, I cant do that" and then buying his crap and saying " I found my style" is what seems to be the case.

[mung foo]

All I can say is hahahaha...............!!!!

Here is some more funny stuff flaoting around on white eyebrow-

http://www.dryqwong.com/kungfu/videos.shtml

[David Jamieson]

lacey stole from shergold?

lol.

shergold is the guy who sued simon olaf from teh infamous temple kungfu.

so, shergold learned from a known and court documented fraud only to have the fraudulent material stolen by lacey?

that's hilarious.

[TenTigers]

I think Mickey's point is important. These guys are definately sincere, and if you have ever seen Lacy do his forms, they do follow in the footsteps of the master.
However, I wonder what other people who learned strictly from videos, such as from WLE look like doing their forms as well.
Gene, do you have any experience with this? Have you seen alot of people that have learned from videos? What were they like?

[David Jamieson]

All I can say is hahahaha...............!!!!

Here is some more funny stuff flaoting around on white eyebrow-

http://www.dryqwong.com/kungfu/videos.shtml

omfg! that is some of the most bogus pratfalls I've ever seen...wait a minute...nope, all teh lin kong jing pratfalls I've seen are highly bogus.

notice how the first guy always looks where he will fall and uses the same falling technique each time.

In the last one, watch the portly girl actually look around for a clear place to fall down to. lol

ridiculous.

[PlumDragon]

I understand that is the Bak Mei school that some of the members in my jook lum pai drove up to for a challenge some years ago.

No more need be said about either of the topics in this thread--Both theat Bak Mei school (not Bak Mei in general) and the Lacy garbage are designed with one thing in mind: To scam people out of hard-earned money.

Case closed.

[Brad]

lacey stole from shergold?

lol.

shergold is the guy who sued simon olaf from teh infamous temple kungfu.

so, shergold learned from a known and court documented fraud only to have the fraudulent material stolen by lacey?

that's hilarious.
lol, well stuff like this actually happens quite often... I think my first martial arts teacher actually stole some superficial material from Lacy (and Doo Wai), took some more from a Karate org. out west that sells belt ranks, took a lot of stuff from a kungfuified TKD system, and topped it off by passing around footage of the Shaolin "monks" as personal home video from when he trained at Shaolin ;)

[mung foo]

omfg! that is some of the most bogus pratfalls I've ever seen...wait a minute...nope, all teh lin kong jing pratfalls I've seen are highly bogus.

notice how the first guy always looks where he will fall and uses the same falling technique each time.

In the last one, watch the portly girl actually look around for a clear place to fall down to. lol

ridiculous.

What really makes me wonder is, what is goin through these peoples mind when they could walk up to thousands of people in a stadium and perpetuate this fraud.

I mean do they think people believe that sh!t? Are they so diluted that they think they are actually being thrown by this guy?.....?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Chris, quit foolin'. I know for a fact you have all of Lacey's long-distance instructional tapes. And you are a bonafide member or his inner 'pai' fan club. Do you still have his posters on your wall? And have you sold that piece of coconut that Lacey actually broke at a demo and signed for you?

Keep it real!

[dwid]

actually, I think they do - here's why:
many people are into martial arts looking for something "bigger" then themselves - something mystical, something extraordinary; when they see a demo such as that, they think "wow, that must be it", because that is what they are loooking for - something to take them out of the mundanity of their lives, the chance to be attached to something special - so, they join the school, and start getting indoctrinated - since they already are convinced, that's pretty easy - after that, it's pretty much what is called entrainment - like when people's biorhythms synchronize due to prolonged proximity with each other - you go with the flow, so to speak - that's why it feels "real" - you are responding on a non-conscious, autonomic level - pretty Pavlovian...what's more, it's like a drug - every time you get thrown, your system probably has some activation of parasympathetics, which always feels good, so you want to keep experiencing it, so you just keep going along with it all the while convinced it's not something that you are going along with...pretty straight forward, IMHO...

Wow, that's a pretty elaborate explanation with a lot of assumptions built in.
Here's a simpler one: There's a sucker born every minute.
And remember, all things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the best one ;) .

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Aahh! The truth has been revealed! The Secrets of my 'close-door' training is out! I am discraced. Now..to committ a Japanese ritual.....

[dwid]

elaborate? I'm surprised to hear that - I'd say it was pretty basic; as for built-in assumptions, well, after you meet enough people who do buy this sort of thing, after having some experience with human nature in general, having a little exposure to various schools of behavior/psychology, it becomes less assumptive and more descriptive...

Whoah, dude, what's with all the hostility.

First off, you don't know anything about me. I've been studying human psychology for about 10 years now and physiology for about 2 years.

I am the furthest thing from anti-educational. I've worked pretty extensively in research and value the scientific method extremely highly.

The wink was intended non-offensively, btw, and the paraphrase of Occam's Razor was also intended tongue in cheek (hence the wink).

Secondly, your argument came off as a mish-mash of stuff regarding behaviorism and physiology that inferred a lot about people, that they all met a bunch of criteria, so if you want to talk content, see next reply

[dwid]

actually, I think they do - here's why:many people are into martial arts looking for something "bigger" then themselves - something mystical, something extraordinary; when they see a demo such as that, they think "wow, that must be it", because that is what they are loooking for - something to take them out of the mundanity of their lives, the chance to be attached to something special - so, they join the school, and start getting indoctrinated ...

We're agreed up to this point...


since they already are convinced, that's pretty easy - after that, it's pretty much what is called entrainment - like when people's biorhythms synchronize due to prolonged proximity with each other - you go with the flow, so to speak - that's why it feels "real" - ...

This is pretty quasi-scientific at best. I'd like to see some legitimate controlled research that supports this, other than anecdotal stuff that people bring up about girls living together and menses, etc... I don't doubt that people tend to become increasingly committed to something and vulnerable to suggestion through involvement. That's pretty simple. It's a basic human desire to eliminate cognitive dissonance. A la "Why would I be doing this if I didn't enjoy it, it wasn't valid, etc..."


you are responding on a non-conscious, autonomic level - pretty Pavlovian...what's more, it's like a drug - every time you get thrown, your system probably has some activation of parasympathetics, which always feels good, so you want to keep experiencing it, so you just keep going along with it all the while convinced it's not something that you are going along with...pretty straight forward, IMHO...

I'm not sure I understand the connection between pavlov and autonomic NS activation. Pavlov did classical conditioning stimulus-response bond stuff. More brain oriented than autonomic. Autonomic would be arousal misattribution stuff, which might be valid here, but isn't really Pavlovian in the truest sense, more cognitive dissonance stuff. Further, parasympathetics are inhibitory. I think you mean sympathetic NS activation, like epi, norepi, etc... Parasympathetic would be acetylcholine, which I can't really see happening when being thrown.

But ultimately, the psychology of your argument makes sense. People get wrapped up in stuff, and they convince themselves it must be legit. They go along with it due to possibly non-conscious processes, etc...

It's the science as you explain it that I don't get.

As far as my point about these people: Again, there's a sucker born every minute. Being a sucker isn't an indictment of someone. A sucker just doesn't know better. Ignorance, unless it is willful, is not a character flaw.

[dwid]

Cool, Chris.

I appreciate the reply. You seem to have a perspective not entirely dissimilar from my own on a lot of this stuff (see the softness thread on the IMA board).

Anyway, no offense meant, just trying to clarify and understand the science behind your theory. :)

[dwid]

it's the same thing with why I think many people never really try to attack their teacher as hard as they could - most people want to believe they are studying with someone better then they are, 'cause if that person wasn't, what's the point of studying with them? so, if you took the guy out, it would sort of eliminate that, and you'd by default have to go find a new teacher, right?

Your point is well made about anecdotal not necessarily being wrong in and of itself. As far as the above, I've seen and experienced the same thing, so I think we're basically in agreement, just using different theoretical frameworks/language to describe it.



anyway, again, thanks for the input - and also for the opinion on the other thread - I'm glad that I'm not the only one who believes that Taoist imagery isn;t sacrosanct and unassailable - even though I am all for it, I don't believe it precludes other ways of describing things (BTW, my eacher is both a classically trained Taoist / I Jing master, as well as a psych major from Princeton, and has done more then his fair share of rat brain scetioning - so I'm spoiled on both ends...)

Well, I had kind of a similar background, my original instructor being a classically trained kung fu man and a PhD in plant biochemistry. As far as the Taoist imagery, I agree its useful and helps people conceptualize. I think the problem is that it is a religious framework, and when people come to explain things in religious terms, all critical thought ends. It is the end of discussion before it has really begun. As in "why is this such and such?" "Because God wills it to be so." I think if we begin to look at IMA body mechanics and qi type stuff as a technology, and have free reign to try to understand it using the tools of modern science, completely cutting it free from its solemn religious underpinnings, we can make some real progress in understanding it in a way that can lead to perhaps some evolution in applied body mechanics, etc...


BTW - where do you study baqua? what lineage? and same question re: your psych background - what is your area of interests / specialization? (I don't feel that I;m hijacking this thread here - it seems to have pretty much teleosed out...)

Well, as far as my bagua, I'm not really with a teacher right now. Dr. Wu (my original instructor) died a few years back and I initially went to train with his senior student, but once I started grad school, I decided to stop for a while. I still practice what I know sometimes, but I have pared it down substantially, and don't really have the time to invest in working out new material. The lineage is kind of a weird one. It's called Guang Hua Mt. Bagua and is a blend of a lot of Gao, with some Han Mu Xia and some other stuff. It's a huge system.

As far as psych, I was a researcher for several years in social psychology, with a guy specializing in political psych. My personal interests have been more clinical. In addition to social psych principles on decision making, etc... I picked up more or less by accident through work, I'm really into cognitive behavioral approaches, specifically some of the current research in mindfulness based cognitive and behavioral therapies. I'm currently in grad school training for my Masters in Nursing specializing in psychiatric nursing. Nursing has an approach to psych that is more holistic than just about any other profession involved in therapy. Also, the nursing approach to care really appeals to me. I don't think you can really fully understand psychosis unless you look at the environmental, medical, social, etc... basically all the factors involved.

So, what's your background, professionally and martial arts-wise?

[dwid]

oops - double post

[dwid]

sorry re: your teaccher...as for the style, I am not familiar with it - any links?

Thanks for the condolences. He was an amazing guy. Regarding links, I'm afraid not. There was an article way back when in the Bagua Journal, but that was basically an interview with my instructor.


oh, hey - you didn't say anything about NLP - was that an oversite or on purpose? I have had limited exposure to it - some things I find very useful, other things somewhat culty (there is one guy who posts here who actually met Bander, and shared his views on him - time permitting I'll dig up the link); if I am not mistaken, cog behav is somewhat linked to that approach (I know there's also the whole Eriksonian hypnosis part as well...); what's the perspective these days coming from the field in general (I can only imagine...)?
as for the mindfulness stuff - well, we are a Ch'an based school, which, in essence is a form of cognitive behavioralism - a very no nonsense way to break out of habitual patterning

To be honest, my knowledge of NLP is limited. As far as things being "culty", that applies to all kinds of stuff in psych. People get attached to a viewpoint and that's all they're interested in working with. I think evidence based practice still has a long way to go in psych work.

As far as mindfulness, there is actually a lot of good research going on right now. One approach, Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy, is rooted in some of Jon Kabat Zinn's work, which deals a lot with chronic illness/chronic pain. Sounds like you may have run into his stuff in your line of work.



anyway, thanks for the ongoing discourse - and if you're ever in NYC, let me know, we'll have tea with my teacher

I'm as glad as you are to find that not everyone has a dogmatic attachment to qi theory, etc...

[fiercest tiger]

Is your Dragon gate related to the guy in the book called Enter the "Dragons gate?"

If so they take there tao very seriously and it was a great book to read.

Garry

[fiercest tiger]

Hi,

Thats great have you got any site i could see where you train or what is taught at your dragon gate system?

cheers
Garry

[LaterthanNever]

Lacey looks like he just learned those forms and is performing them for the first time. As for his persona..I called the # listed on the site to ask him a question. Maybe I didn't understand something about his answer, so I asked him in a slightly different way and he starts screaming at the top of his lungs "REDUNDANT..REDUNDANT..REDUNDANT". It seems as if he has a really low frustration tolerance.

As for the clips..doesn't he normally have a long beard?