floyd mayweather working the mitts...

[SevenStar]

http://boxingtalk.com//video/may_trainingpt2_1207.asx

[yenhoi]

Ive seen him fight once or twice.

:(

Lazy power puncher hands.

:eek:

[fa_jing]

wow

Reminded me a bit of two man kung fu drills, in terms of the flow. Amazing reaction time and conservation of movement.

[Pork Chop]

That's a great clip, i've been looking for it a while, thanks!

As a drill for eye & handspeed as well as defence; that's some good stuff. I've got Roger Mayweather on the Ringside John Brown Pad Holding training tape & have borrowed from it a lot.

You can really see the difference between the way they hold pads and the way the thais hold it, it's like night and day.

[SevenStar]

I was thinking about ordering that dvd. I've got the volumes covering advanced shadow boxing, punching logistics, hand wrapping and effective footwork. Next on my list are lessons on light bags, mastering the mitts, finding your power and maximizing your heavy bag workout.

[Pork Chop]

mitts is probably the best vid in the series. the others deteriorate into the ringside product line. Title does a better job of putting out good training vids. I got the 2 from freddie roach. The Ringside "masters of training" series can also be a waste- the Archie moore one is more a documentary on moore than an effective training tool, but i love the old mongoose so that's cool by me. The "masters trainers" one from Jesse Ried (sp?) is AWESOME though.

Pacquiao hits the mitts more explosively imho, tho he's not as defense focused:
http://www.youtube.com/?v=87bXr0QcVEo

Seeing that, I think if PBF came down to like 135 or 140, a fight with Pacquiao would be entertaining. Though, at the moment, Margarito can probably give Mayweather the best fight around his weight class.

[SevenStar]

yeah, I've noticed that too. There are still good tidbits on them. I did like the footwork dvd. Not a lot of product pushing on that one.

[Pork Chop]

I'm gonna need to watch the footwork dvd again. When you're a southpaw (like me) all your footwork isn't just backwards, it's some algebraic equation based on the other guy. That just means a lot of the footwork coverage on vids is next to useless (maybe just a study on how the other guy "should" move).


On a side note, not to hijack, but with my boxing background i feel like i can outbox most muay thai guys i fight. If I try to do that, i get torn up by leg kicks and push kicks. So I usually end up playing the kicking game until i can find an opening and really exploit it. Kicking wise, I'm pretty decent, but when I'm having an off day (like sunday) people read me from a mile away and i get torn up. Switching footwork back and forth between boxing & thai either kills my punches or kicks. I gotta find a way to close distance without walking into that lead push kick; or come up with a kicking strategy that's not as easy to counter. Any ideas?

[SevenStar]

I'm working on a similar dilemma. I'm trying to find more boxing people to work with. Even though I'm a kicker by nature, I like to box. I've got decent hands, but my footwork isn't as mobile as it could be, which is noticeable when I am trying to make angles. as for the push kick, I'm generally pretty quick about intercepting them - knock it to the ground, then nail it with a roundhouse. also, I use the lead leg roundhouse a lot, so I wear down their push kicking leg.

[Pork Chop]

when you say "knock it to the ground" I'm assuming you mean slapping it down with your lead hand? or even like a down & in to out scoop?
I'll have to work on that.
I'm just so sick of catching the push kick to the ribs anytime i try to close distance.

I'm pretty good at leg kicking with my lead leg, but i usually have to get at a good angle to get it off (southpaw) & it doesn't always put me at a good position afterward.

I usually have a lot better footwork than the Thai guys I play with; but a large part of it is because they don't believe in moving much. Most would rather sit and trade bombs right in punching range.


Overall my stance & firing combos with kicks has felt more awkward this time around. I probably just need a lot more sparring and someone keeping a better eye on my shadow. My weight could have something to do with it too. I kinda have 2 different styles: a more mobile sanshou-ish style and a more stationary "thai" style. I may be mixing up which techniques go with what. Sliding kicks are really important when I'm being mobile; but one of my Thai coaches has really gotten me out of the habit of using them. The Thai style requires patience & timing as you work your way into bomb-dropping range, but after getting hit once or twice, I'm usually getting back on my bicycle. I'll eventually work it out, but probably not with this minimalist schedule I've got.

[SevenStar]

when you say "knock it to the ground" I'm assuming you mean slapping it down with your lead hand?

yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I follow that with a roundhouse to the same leg.


I usually have a lot better footwork than the Thai guys I play with; but a large part of it is because they don't believe in moving much. Most would rather sit and trade bombs right in punching range.

which is exactly why I want more boxing footwork practice. I'm a shorter, stocky guy, but I have long arms, so I can sit and drop bombs from a distance safely, but when infighting, I want more mobility. I'm really drilling my footwork and head movement.

[Ford Prefect]

The Mayweather link isn't working. I'd hate to go toe to toe with Pacquiao though.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

that dude is awesome

[metsubushi]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I figure it's better than starting a new thread about an old thread. To those who have the focus mitt training DVD, how exactly does Mayweather do this? Is he reacting to random positions, or is he running though memorized sequences? I've seen him fight alot, and I know he's an amazingly technical boxer(even holds "conversations" while he fights), so I'm really curious about this. Especially considering that this type of training is what some would consider "dead" (not me).

[SevenStar]

it was random. as for dead vs alive training, I wouldn't consider them dead, as you are receiving live, realtime feedback from the feeder. he will throw punches back at you for you to block, slip, etc. and provide corrections on the fly. It is very alive. Now, I do believe that they can be utilized in a dead manner - robotic drills, no feedback, etc. but I would also argue that this is the wrong way to use mitts.

[SevenStar]

mitts is probably the best vid in the series. the others deteriorate into the ringside product line. Title does a better job of putting out good training vids. I got the 2 from freddie roach. The Ringside "masters of training" series can also be a waste- the Archie moore one is more a documentary on moore than an effective training tool, but i love the old mongoose so that's cool by me. The "masters trainers" one from Jesse Ried (sp?) is AWESOME though.



I got the two freddie roach vids last week, along with the counterpunching and making angles vids. They are a lot better than the ringside series. I'll be ordering more soon.

[Yung Apprentice]

Feddie roach must be a pretty good trainer. I was always impressed with Pacuio's (sp?) offense, but his defense mainly consisted of eating punches. His last fight with Morales, I was impressed, he showed things he hasn't shown much in the past. He counterpunched, he actually showed some defense, and he worked the body well. He fixed what I viewed as his weaknesses. He still doesn;t have a stellar defense, but it's A LOT better then what he had before.


Mayweather is awesome with his defense. Judah isn't going to stand a chance. I agree with Porkchop, Margarito would be a great fight. He would give Mayweather fits. Which is probably why he is avoiding him. BTW, anyone watch the first Luis Castillo/ Mayweather fight? I thought Castillo got robbed that fight. He lost the second fight no doubt, but the first one I thought Castillo won.

[WinterPalm]

Here's Chuck Liddell working the pads:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=_URvlMO5YbI&search=chuck%20liddell

For my preference I like the power punching over the rhythmic flowing sort of drill. Both are good, but I hear the philosophy from their training school is each punch should be 100%.

[SevenStar]

Here's Chuck Liddell working the pads:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=_URvlMO5YbI&search=chuck%20liddell

For my preference I like the power punching over the rhythmic flowing sort of drill. Both are good, but I hear the philosophy from their training school is each punch should be 100%.


you have to look at the training tool - how thick are punch mitts? they are very thin and supported by your partner's arm - they are to be used for developing speed and accuracy. They suck for developoing power. That is why boxers also hit the heavy bag.

Thai pads are thicker, as kicks are generally harder than punches, but even those are inferior to the heavy bag in terms of training power.

consequently, each punch CAN be 100% - 100% speed or 100% power. depends on which tool you are using.

that said, you don't always want to punch 100%. look at the jab - it ain't a power punch. It sets up other things. instead of 100% power in the jab, you throw with speed so you can quickly gauge distance from your opponent and set up your power shot. You can also quickly toss it out there to show your opponent that if he rushes in, he's gonna eat something.

On a final note, you can look at chuck's punching and tell that he's not punching 100% power on those pads. the punches he's throwing from the very beginning he's only tossing out there to distract from the takedown. his kicks weren't 100% either. there is a part early in the vid where liddell throws two light jabs and a hard cross. This is what I was talking about above.

[WinterPalm]

I'm familiar with the logic of the jab but I like to think of the old boxing days, way back, where a jab meant something. I understand the sport has definately changed from that but I still like the idea of it. I guess personally I am starting to spar a little more sparringly and throw less pokes and really concentrate of setting things up. That said, I'm sure I do the equivalent of the jab but I have way more tools to work with so it doesn't seem repetitive in my training sessions. I do like the jab though...

[SevenStar]

I'm familiar with the logic of the jab but I like to think of the old boxing days, way back, where a jab meant something. I understand the sport has definately changed from that but I still like the idea of it. I guess personally I am starting to spar a little more sparringly and throw less pokes and really concentrate of setting things up. That said, I'm sure I do the equivalent of the jab but I have way more tools to work with so it doesn't seem repetitive in my training sessions. I do like the jab though...


a jab definitely means something - a jab is one of the most important tools you have. a push kick is as well. you CAN put power into them, but in the cases of many people, it's a waste. Not everyone has a stiff jab. It's that simple. that poke IS what sets everything else up. I've got way more to work with than just a jab, having both traditional and sport training, but like I said, IMO there is nothing in my arsenal more important than the jab and the push kick.

out of curiosity, what do you usually use to set something up?

[WinterPalm]

For setting things up I tend to use a lot of stuff depending on the person I am sparring with. I like to grab the hand-kick the leg, if the person is using a boxing stance then it really depends on how they throw their punches and kicks, I tend to counter fight in that regard. I also put a lot of weight on how the person is in terms of presence, if they are very aware and present, then I may use more sidestepping, illusive stepping, footwork shifting, redirection of attention through fake or hit high or low and go serious on the opposite range, and, of course, the occassional jab. Sometimes you can plow through the person if they aren't prepared enough.

Keep in mind that this is the first time I've tried to put into words what I do when I spar so I'm sure there are probably real terms for these things that I just named.

The jab is kind of like a bridging method in the sense that you describe your use of it.
But you are definately right, some people waste the jab and others use it well. I actually spar a guy in my class who puts his lead hand out really far, like outstretched so far!, and I watch him spar and I know what to do but when I try it is very distracting because he is keeping his distance through his lead hand which is like a feeler or something.

[jethro]

you are right. I don't study fighting excep for a kickboxing class I was in a few years ago and know absolutely nothing about footwork, but me and my friends:) love puttign on the gloves and having a kickboxing match. I always hold my jab(left) hand out as a buffer and it ****es everyone off. I've had people get seriously mad after kicking my ass adn they can't finish me off cause I keep distracting them until they go over the top and just grab my arm. A couple of challengers have tried to tell me I can't use that and have to box, well I don;t know how to box, but I love fighting people without getting killed.