Choy Lay Fut Fan Form

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Here's a little clip of one of my classmates doing the CLF fan form - "Haak Luhng Siin" (Black Dragon Fan). Since there were some recent fan forms posted, he wanted to show our CLF fan to the forum.

It's Sifu Stephen Innocenzi, and I'm just posting a clip of the form here. I think he looks great and he's 50 years old! Sifu Innocenzi teaches in Manhattan, if anyone wants to get in touch with him for lessons, PM me and I'll forward your info to him. Or you can get in touch with him at www.NYSanDa.com c/o Sifu David Ross.

He is a terrific instructor and an expert in the Lama Pai Style. He was also one of Sifu Chan Tai-San's favorite students as well.


CLF Fan Form (http://www.nykungfu.com/school/FanFormforWebInnoc.wmv)


Let me know what you think.

Here's a pic of some of the CTS crew.

[Green Cloud]

Hmmm mike didn't you post this in the southern forum?? Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy, but once again I must say my bro Inno. is the bomb, watch out Jackie.

Actualy Frank bought this to my attention, but I have an update on my site and I'm doing a similar set that sifu taught me. Altough I'm not 50 I'ts onother chan fu fan set he called it the white crane fan. keep in mind I need a hip replacement so pleace be nice when giving a critique.

greencloud.net

[Green Cloud]

my bad mike I'm the one that told you to post on the kf forum, the older I get the beter I was.

[GeneChing]

Is that the same form as this one (http://www.martialartsmart.net/prsh002.html)? Just curious.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Is that the same form as this one (http://www.martialartsmart.net/prsh002.html)? Just curious.

now THAT was a good product tie-in.. Kudos Gene, Kudos:D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Gene, I have actually seen that video, and I can say that it is NOT the same form.

:)

[CLFNole]

Ours is Fei Loong Sin also known as Dai Yuet Sin.

Completely different sets.

[GeneChing]

How many dragon fan forms are there in CLF? Again, just curious...

[GreenCloudCLF]

Fan Forms 扇套:

Small Hand Breaking Fan (Siu Suei Sau Sin) 小碎手扇
Hand Breaking Fan (Suei Sau Sin) 碎手扇
Flying Dragon Fan (Fei Lung Sin) 飛龍扇
Golden Dragon Fan (Gum Lung Sin) 金龍扇
Flying Phoenix Fan (Fei Fung Sin) 飛鳯扇


I put this up, cause DFW has the most comprehensive listing of CLF forms available to the public. (I dont NOT claim these to be the ONLY forms).

[Lama Pai Sifu]

There is also:

Bok Fu Siin (White Tiger Fan)
Haak Luhng Siin (Black Dragon Fan)

Those are the one's we learned from Sifu Chan Tai-San. I don't think he had taught any other fan forms, but someone else from our family might have learned another one.

[GeneChing]

Sorry for so many questions, I just didn't realize fan was so popular with CLF. Why is that?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Gene,

Some people say that there are over 130 different hand forms! It's so funny, CLF is in it's 4-6 generation (Depends on who you are) and there were only EIGHT hand forms originally. Go Figure. Every generation had to add like 20 forms for the math to work out. It's a bit much, no?

[Blacktiger]

Are there schools who stick just to the original 8 hand forms?

[hskwarrior]

Lama,

In the chan family alone there are supposedly 190 hand and weapon forms. This is not including sets from the Hung SIng Kwoon which would probably jet that number to well over 2 hundred.

Gene,

if one takes the fan seriously, it can be a very good weapon to fight with. also there are no laws against having a steel fan in your possession.

when closed, it can act like a short powerful stick. but the fan is also popular because it is a fancy form, and pretty much a unique weapon compared to all the rest.

that is my take on it.

[GeneChing]

The whole CLF form thing has always baffled me, perhaps because there are so many. With that many forms, at what point does it evolve into something new? Does every CLF school play some version of these original eight? Is that the core that identifies the art? I imagine with each generation creating so many forms, there must be a lot of separation between lineages. How many major branches would you break CLF into? I've never studied CLF, but I know a lot of CLF practitioners and have always had respect for it. That's why I'm curious.

Of course, being a Shaolin practitioner, there's not a lot I can say about having tons of forms...

[hskwarrior]

there are various branches and teachers who either teach any one or more of these sets. but the fut san hung sing kwoon teaches ping kuen and cheung kuen which are of the original 8 sets.

chui kwong yuen was said to have taught Ong Kuen but i could be wrong.

I think we at our school may have Mon as in Mon Jeurng or 10,000 elephants, very possible that Yuen Hai taught many of those sets.

what is that....how does it go? Tai Ping Tien Gok Cheung On Mon Nien, right?

[CLFNole]

These are supposedly the 8 original sets; however I don't think all eight are listed even with the Chan Family. Names could have changed over the years though but here it is anyway:

1) Tai Gee Kuen
2) Ping Kuen
3) Tien Gee Kuen
4) Kwok Gee Kuen
5) Cheung Kuen
6) On Gee Kuen
7) Mahn Gee Kuen
8) Lien Gee Kuen

You had it right Frank.

The only names you really here of anymore is ping kuen, cheong kuen and mahn gee kuen. I know some branches have a lien wahn kuen but I am not sure if it would be the same as lien gee kuen.

Peace.

[Green Cloud]

The whole CLF form thing has always baffled me, perhaps because there are so many. With that many forms, at what point does it evolve into something new? Does every CLF school play some version of these original eight? Is that the core that identifies the art? I imagine with each generation creating so many forms, there must be a lot of separation between lineages. How many major branches would you break CLF into? I've never studied CLF, but I know a lot of CLF practitioners and have always had respect for it. That's why I'm curious.

Of course, being a Shaolin practitioner, there's not a lot I can say about having tons of forms...


Jean I think there was an original eight forms, then they were used by diferen't guys as a gudline or structure of how to use centrifigule force and counterbalincing for power. Evenetualy sifus starting adding their own influences but keeping certain guide lines that made it choy lee fut. I was talking to Dixon Fong, a former di si hing of sifu Yee chi Y forgive me if the spelling is wrong. he also met and studied with Sifu CTS way before any of us met him. In short we agreed on one thing, if it's sao ding sao gwa cup peck chop it's choy lee fut.

The fact is we are to caught up with who knows what set of forms when we should worry about how good we are at what we do and is it efective.

Years ago I was at sifu yim tai's surprize bithday parties, as one of my students finished demoing a form he turned and looked at me and said my how good sifu Chans choreagraphy is. Mind you I didn't think of that statement as an insult since I knew Tai Yims respect for his uncle Chan Tai San. I'm just saying hmmmm.

[hskwarrior]

we teach the fut san hung sing Lin Wah Kuen

here is a clip of it performed in san francisco. i think its either lin wan or siu lin wan kuen.

http://www.geocities.com/hungsingstatesboro/movie1.htm

[hskwarrior]

gene,

i think each new generation brings something new to the table when they take over the school. I personally think its silly to want to know more than 200 forms, yet each generation feels the itch to create therefore the proliferation of newer made hand or weapon forms.

the unfortunate thing yet it is also a blessing, is that there is no general standard used for all schools of choy lee fut. we are all pretty individual, and sometimes its appearant that certain sifu's add their own earmarks on the system they are teaching for what ever reasons.

but maybe the many forms can be viewed as a buffett of sorts for the CLF martial artists. Some like to sample something new while others stick to what they know.

but its late now and im talking like a mad man.

peace.....im outtie like 5000 gee.

[Green Cloud]

Well said Frank, I agree that CLF is a concept of fighting that has enveloped other styles of fighting. CLF's signiture tech. are the same and are pretty standard in each version of CLF. I guess every sifu through the years has added their own inprint on CLF. The Clear cloud monestary housed many martial arts masters that added their own flavor into the CLF depending on what their own backround was.

For instance if a guy was good at Hung Kune I don't see why he would stop using it just because he was learning CLF in the monestary. And the hung is definatly a strong influence in my Sifu's CLF.

[hskwarrior]

I think the Hung may also be apart of Lau Bun's Choy Lee Fut as well.

And i think its correct to say that every sifu leaves his earmark on the lineage he holds. most students will imitate how a teacher moves and it that teacher has any quirky movements the students will also pick that up as well. i've seen it many times.

what i'm saying is that if i were watching two clf practitioners perform and one is of Lau Bun's branch and the other is of Lee Koon Hung's the differences are night and day. but on any given day you would be able to notice by movements alone what lineage of CLF this or that school was from.

another example, I have never seen anyone (aside From Jew Leong who moves differently than some of his students) perform the Ng Ying Kuen than my sifu. He has a special flow of Hard and soft without ever looking weak. I have something on dvd i would like to show but don't know how to post it, but it is very indicative of my sifu's flavor. and he moves like no one else in Hung Sing.

the good thing about that is even my sifu's classmates say when they see me perform they can see my sifu's movements in mine.

peace

[Shaolindynasty]

To be honest, Im not sure if I "believe" in "different branches". I see CLF performed a little differently by every school even within the same line. There are differences in the way individuals perform movements but the concepts are the same. Frank for instane shared applications photos that would have been identical to mine. Yet the way his line performs is different from mine

Gene- you can compare CLF to Shaolin. How many versions of Xiao Hong Chuan have you seen? Also out of the hundreds of forms how many people know all of them? None right?

No one school has all the forms. Nor do they need all of them.

[hskwarrior]

shaolin dynasty,

i totally agree with you. when i was in texas with my students at the Tai CHi legacy one of my students took your sifu's seminar. I was really close by watching to see what your sifu was going to show my student.

after it was over i really liked your sifu and his approach to choy lee fut, it was very close to the way we apply it. in fact i thought i was looking at my sifu for a quick second. but your apps are very similar and the way you approach others as well.

the funny thing was just the night before the seminar, i was teaching my students the very same thing your sifu covered. so i was impressed and liked your sifu. he called me fei jai, but i don't think he was insulting me.

peace

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Fei Jie (Jie sounds like 'pie') ? Is that the way is was pronounced, Frank?

He wasn't insulting you, but Chinese people call people things or names that we would be insulted by in America.

I won't mention them by name, but one of my classmates is nicknamed by my Sifu "Mo Gei Sing" and was often refered to as "Dai Fong Si". In English, not so good, but to Chinese people, it's okay.

My Sifu often called people "fat guy", "fat boy" or "fat kid" if they were overweight and didn't know their name. "Fei Lo, Fei Yan, Fei Jie"

:)

[Green Cloud]

Oh yea mike very funny That person that you are reffering to is me. Mo ge si meaning forgetful one or bad memory. But he had a funny name for all of us. Sweet potatoe head smiling tiger baldy. It's kinda like a coach gives his players nick names like button head and romeo and things like that.

It's done in a playful compassionate way that shouldn't be taken to heart, besides I caught Sifu CTS boasting about me just as much as he complaned about me.

The fact is that back then I knew I would spend most of my life living up to his rep even after his death. I'm sure of one thing that if he is looking down from the heavens he would definatly be proud of me.

It's simple in life you shouln't care what people say about you, as long as you follow a rightious and honorable path. As long as you can look at your self in the mirror and like what you see that's all that counts.

Then again for those who don't follow a spiritual path or believe in karma, what I think is meaningless to them. So I guess they need to constantly be reassured that they are liked and respected.


greencloud.net

[Lama Pai Sifu]

LOL, I was just using that as an example Gus....

I wasn't going to say who it was...

Don't be so defensive....just explaining to Frank, that what we might consider in English to be offensive, the Chinese find more endearing.

What's with all the ranting about Sifu looking at you from the heavens? Dude, lighten up....


It's done in a playful compassionate way that shouldn't be taken to heart, besides I caught Sifu CTS boasting about me just as much as he complaned about me.


Where's that coming from? I didn't even mention WHO the nickname was for! You are the one who brought it up. And who said anything about boasting or complaining? Bro', c'mon now. I warned you about getting flamed-up about stuff on these forums....I told you how easy it is to get sucked in....just have some fun...

And I think the whole "Karma" rant was a bit over the top.. :)

[Green Cloud]

:confused: Mike you lighten up I'm not sure what youre talking about, I was sharing something with Frank, not directing my comment to you. As far as getting all melencoly about sifu well sorry if it set you off or something.

As far as flayming Once again I'm not sure where you are going with that, maybee youre talking about some broke back mountain ****.

Read my post again It realy had nothing to do with you, except for the fact that I was revealing what my nick name was. Don't worry I won't tell anyone yours.

And onother thing as far as your warnings go what are you a moderator or something. Let seven star come in to this and have him read my coment and lets ask him if my coment was in anyway a flame starter.

here is the deal if youre going to converse with me on the forum stop being so defensive and paranoid and by the way don't talk to me in an authoritive manner.

What are we revealing government secrets or something common dude give me a break with the oooooh don't let the forum suck you in danger you have bee warned. LOL You should realy listen to your self.

greencloud.net

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Gus, I apologize to you for your misunderstanding of my post. I am only playing around. Don't take me so seriously, my brother.

I thought you sounded ****ed-off about me explaining the nickname thing to Frank. I wasn't trying to direct anything towards you...just giving Frank an example...



:)

[greencloudtj]

No problem bro it's all good sometime things get lost in translation.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Greencloudtj...thanks for the support.

[Green Cloud]

Mike T.J. has trained with me for one year and weighs about 230 to 235 and has had no fights. not even in a kung fu tourney. This will be his first event anyway it's all in fun and for a good cause. TJ just asked me to relay the message since he has not yet had a chance to go on line. I think your guy might have more experience and I believe he has had a few fights right??


Anyway it doesn't matter who wins in this case it's all the same family.

[shuaichiao]

Fei Jie (Jie sounds like 'pie') ? Is that the way is was pronounced, Frank?
:)

That brings back a bad memory. In one of the schools I trained at there was this fat lazy kid Sifu always called fay jie when he talked about him. One of the guys who helped with the kids class and didn't know the translation thought that was his name so one time while he was trying to teach him during the open practise part of class he kept calling him Fay Jie. A few days later his mother showed up and had a screaming fit.

[Fu-Pow]

Rotflmao!!!:)

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Gus,

Damien has been training with me for almost a year. He is an old Anthony Tardy student, who used to live in Staten Island, but moved to LI last year. He has one fight so far, unfortunately, it was a loss. I'm sure it'll be a fun fight and since you have so many other guys fighting, it's still us against them!