Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey

[MasterKiller]

This book should be required reading for anyone who wants to post here.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556435576/sr=8-11/qid=1141673888/ref=pd_bbs_11/102-8503870-6842509?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[MasterKiller]

Because I said so, that's why.

[Fu-Pow]

How come in all the old drawings of Chinese guys with out their shirts on they all had man b00bs?

[MasterKiller]

Those are qi boobs.

[WanderingMonk]

Because I said so, that's why.

The MMA training has finally gotten into your head. you are on a power binge. We must send out ninja to take you down. In the likely event that we cannot secure the service of genuine Japanese ninja because the usd is losing value against the japanese yen, we'll have to make do with some of the imported knock-off ninja.

[GreenCloudCLF]

:D :D I remember Sifu Ross recommending that book, and I have been looking for the thread with it for about a week...and no luck.


So now I can finally order it...Thanks Master Killer...you're a Master Killer:D :D

[David Jamieson]

I always wonder why people correlate "buff" with "martial ability"

that ain't true, I've seen way to many examples of lardboy v. buffboy where lardboy beats buffboy hands down and quickly.

You can't judge a book by it's cover when it comes to raw fighting power.

*edited from partial flamaliciousness!* :p

[GeneChing]

China is a poor country. During the Three Hard Years period just before the Cultural Revolution, conservative estimates state that thirty million people starved to death. That being said, the Chinese have always felt that those of ample girth were so because they were successful. Beign fat was a clear example of power (and health) - not only enough having to eat, but having more than your share, enough to produce qi boobs. It's a reoccuring theme throughout Chinese art.

I'm eager to see Brian Kennedy's book. He wrote Bringing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to Taiwan in our Mar Apr 2005 issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=578).

[FuXnDajenariht]

well how many pages is it?

[TenTigers]

The best thing about that book is it lays to rest the hype about Shaolin and WuDan being originators of Martial Arts, and being any better quality Martial Artists than anyone else practicing. There were many temples, and since temles were also land owners, many of them trained Martial Arts. Hsing=Yi, Bot Gua, and Tai-Chi were not developed at WuDang either. most of these are simply myths taken from novels and hyped up.

[MasterKiller]

Well, what really made me post about it was the emphasis the old kung fu guys place on......CONDITIONING.

He says most of the old timers spend an awful lot of time talking about the importance of building a stronger, more powerful body, more important than technique or qi blasts.

[David Jamieson]

China is a poor country. During the Three Hard Years period just before the Cultural Revolution, conservative estimates state that thirty million people starved to death. That being said, the Chinese have always felt that those of ample girth were so because they were successful. Beign fat was a clear example of power (and health) - not only enough having to eat, but having more than your share, enough to produce qi boobs. It's a reoccuring theme throughout Chinese art.

Not to mention religion. As in why the buddhas in various postures are portrayed as quite chubby when it is recorded that buddha wasn't a fat dude. The fat children, fat people, fatness represents prosperity in chinese culture. Both in actual physical being and in a metaphorical sense.

Eatin meat is also a sign of prosperity. Many of the festive dinners in chinese culture consist of many different kinds of meat which is not only tasty but a move away from a primarily vegetarian diet, was always more expensive and ergo, eating of meat is also a symbol of wealth and prosperity.

qi boobs :p yep, that's what they are.

[Rockwood]

Glad to hear that you guys are liking this book. I think it's a great read and gives a very solid historical picture of what people have been writing about in the past hundred or so years. He focuses on the Republican period when martial arts books were allowed to be published again after being banned for a long time under the Ching dynasty.

It's a great look at a lot of different books, giving a small taste of each one. I hope to see many of them translated in the years to come so that English readers will be able to learn more about how CMA were taught in the 1800's - early 1900's.

Another good read about how martial arts were actually taught and practiced in the past is Marnix Well's "Scholar Boxer" about the famous fighter Chang Nai Zhou. This is a complete translation of Chang's book along with some very provocative commentary.

-Jess O

[WinterPalm]

I've read this book and found it a very interesting read. It is a draft too scientific in the sense that it dismisses many things based on lack of scientifically testable materials. Such as saying that because there are no records of verbally passed down traditions that they must not exist?? Come on, that is usually the definition of passed down by tradition without text, is it not? And I would guess that many people practicing would say, wait a minute, that is what I practice and how I learned it...So there is a little bit of an issue with standards involved.

On the plus side it was interesting to read about different training methods, approaches, and the way that Chinese Martial Arts have changed in the past couple of hundred years. I think, and this is with a very ignorant of all Chinese history mindset, that at one point you may have had the component pieces of arts like Hung Gar as seperated and practiced and then unified at varying times. For instance, if an art has a a very large grasp and detail application towards combat it would make sense to add elements of medicine, meditation, and chi kung. Or vice versa which would create mixed styles or even new styles that changed as the teachers expressed the arts differently.

Personally I like the focus on the combative elements of training including all the conditioning stuff and the use of punching bags which only makes sense. I think this book will create a backlash for some things it says but I see a lot of truth in certain components like a very, very strong stress on the basics and keeping martial arts in the real and very difficult simplicity of hand to hand combat. I also find a lot of issues such as chi gong, internal mechanisms for creating striking power, etc, as very valid and usable including Iron Palm practice and other traditional methods.

To me, at the very root of a system of martial arts is the use of the basics, kicks, punches, all the footwork, joint manipulation, balance disruption, mentality, angles, etc, and to build upon and make these abilities more and more refined you add the elements of chi gong, iron body skills, meditation and internal development. These are all things I feel and have felt through practice.

All in all, I would give it 4 out of 5 stars for pretty much supporting my own beliefs of practice, not the history because I know very little of it and don't really care all that much, but more in the way it stresses the practical and avoids the fluff and really addresses that in preparation for fighting one must train hard because on the street it isn't going to go to the judges or end when somebody gets knocked down.

I would say 3 out of 5 for scholary rigor bascially lacking in the if it isn't scientific then it is no good department and the obvious bias from which the author approaches many topics, however, that said, the amount of detail applied to various arts and the histories of manuals is very interesting and an intense endeavour.

I am interested to hear what other people that have read the book thought of it.

Masterkiller, would you be willing to give a little review such as this one??

[SimonM]

China is a poor country. During the Three Hard Years period just before the Cultural Revolution, conservative estimates state that thirty million people starved to death. That being said, the Chinese have always felt that those of ample girth were so because they were successful. Beign fat was a clear example of power (and health) - not only enough having to eat, but having more than your share, enough to produce qi boobs. It's a reoccuring theme throughout Chinese art.

I'm eager to see Brian Kennedy's book. He wrote Bringing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to Taiwan in our Mar Apr 2005 issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=578).

It's true! It's true!

As long as you are a guy. Chinese girls are just as anorexic as girls everwhere else on earth but I have settled nicely into a place where people tell me how "strong" I am all the time...

;)

[SimonM]

Not to mention religion. As in why the buddhas in various postures are portrayed as quite chubby when it is recorded that buddha wasn't a fat dude.

"Fat buddha" is actually the buddha to come; not Siddhartha. He is the next iteration, the next time the dharma is lost. A few buddhist mystics a thousand or so years ago claimed to have a detailed vision of what he looked like. The statues of fat buddha were a result of this.

[Hieronim]

I bought this book, I think itsretarded though how he says shaolin wasnt a bi deal in regards to martial arts and it was just a monastery when if that was the case there wouldnt be a subdivision of styles called shaolin (for external grouping) or so many technique names in styles liek shaolin fist or shaolin palm, etc. from old styles. Not to mention ther eis historical evidence it had training chambers or various training equipment there and statues of warriors.

[David Jamieson]

"Fat buddha" is actually the buddha to come; not Siddhartha. He is the next iteration, the next time the dharma is lost. A few buddhist mystics a thousand or so years ago claimed to have a detailed vision of what he looked like. The statues of fat buddha were a result of this.

Hmmm. Im not sure this is how it is Simon. The Buddha Matreiya (future buddha) is depicted as thin, with the western paradise crown and in teh posture of half lotus, one leg on the ground and the mudra of fearlessness being shown with his right hand.

I am not 100% of how the fat buddha came into being, but I know it's likely the only one the western mind is most familiar with and regards as teh buddha.

hence all our remarks of "buddha belly", "smiling buddha" "rub the buddha" and so on.

Maybe it's just a cultural idiom that seeped into religion...or vice versa.
Now I wanna go find out how that happened!

dang you simon m! making me have to open my eyes and mind again when I was perfectly happy in my sleeping state! :D

[MasterKiller]

I bought this book, I think itsretarded though how he says shaolin wasnt a bi deal in regards to martial arts and it was just a monastery when if that was the case there wouldnt be a subdivision of styles called shaolin (for external grouping) or so many technique names in styles liek shaolin fist or shaolin palm, etc. from old styles. Not to mention ther eis historical evidence it had training chambers or various training equipment there and statues of warriors.

What he says is that Shaolin became famous primarily for their staff techniques, not their boxing skills. But that through association, their boxing gained a reputation it really didn't deserve.

[SimonM]

Hmmm. Im not sure this is how it is Simon. The Buddha Matreiya (future buddha) is depicted as thin, with the western paradise crown and in teh posture of half lotus, one leg on the ground and the mudra of fearlessness being shown with his right hand.

I am not 100% of how the fat buddha came into being, but I know it's likely the only one the western mind is most familiar with and regards as teh buddha.

hence all our remarks of "buddha belly", "smiling buddha" "rub the buddha" and so on.

Maybe it's just a cultural idiom that seeped into religion...or vice versa.
Now I wanna go find out how that happened!

dang you simon m! making me have to open my eyes and mind again when I was perfectly happy in my sleeping state! :D

LOL David.

The information that Maitreya is represented in China as the "fat buddha" come from my "Religions of the Far East" course I took at UWO when I was in university. Since I came to China I've seen nothing to contradict it. I do admit quite willingly that it could be merely Chinese in origin and different everywhere else.

After all you won't see the Bodhisattva of Compassion depicted as female (Guan Yin) outside of China either.