Why study Wing Chun?

[Avelardo]

Hi,

I am new to the board. I have trained in a variety of martial arts such as boxing, Hapkido, Kung Fu San Soo, wrestling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I currenly have a purble belt in BJJ and have studied off and on for 10 years. I have a hectic schedule (police officer) and don't get to roll as much as I would like to get the brown and black belts in BJJ. In a few months, I will be assigned to investigations and will have a normal schedule. I will up my BJJ training and would like to study a few other styles. I am interested in Muy Thai, Krav Maga and Wing Chun. I am familiar with Muy Thai and Krav Maga but have no clue about Wing Chun. Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?

[Tom Kagan]

Hi,

I am new to the board. I have trained in a variety of martial arts such as boxing, Hapkido, Kung Fu San Soo, wrestling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I currenly have a purble belt in BJJ and have studied off and on for 10 years. I have a hectic schedule (police officer) and don't get to roll as much as I would like to get the brown and black belts in BJJ. In a few months, I will be assigned to investigations and will have a normal schedule. I will up my BJJ training and would like to study a few other styles. I am interested in Muy Thai, Krav Maga and Wing Chun. I am familiar with Muy Thai and Krav Maga but have no clue about Wing Chun. Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?


You have your partner, two-way radio, a vest, a taser, pepper spray, handcuffs, a flashlight, baton, and a side-arm

Face facts: It's really not worth your time to study any martial art.

But it's your time to waste. Enjoy what interests you, even if it's trolling. ;)


http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28835

[kj]

Welcome to the forum, Avelardo.


Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?

Not judging by most of the dialog on this board, LOL.

My theory is that most who practice, do it because they love it. Not an altogether shabby reason, if you ask me.

Regards,
- kj

[Brad]

Not a Wing Chung guy, but I was just browsing through the other forums and came across this thread :p

If you studied any of those arts you listed enough to gain skill in each of them you should allready have everything covered. Punching, kicking, throwing, stand up grappling, ground grappling, and even some elbow and knee strikes. If you can put all those skills together into a coheasive framework, you'd have all ranges of hand to hand fighting covered. I don't think Wing Chun and any other art will offer you anything you'd find particularly new, but if you come across a wing chun teacher who you feel is superior to you in some area, then go ahead and study with him/her. You're the only one who could tell whether training in a particular Wing Chun place would be of any use to you.

[Avelardo]

[QUOTE=Tom Kagan]You have your partner, two-way radio, a vest, a taser, pepper spray, handcuffs, a flashlight, baton, and a side-ar

You watch too many cop shows and based on your reply no knowledge of police work.

No partner in the patrol carnearest back is 15 -30 minutes away.
No taser. Costly for most departments.
A vest is not really bullet-proof or knife proof.
Police radio or HT (Handie-Talkie) is only as good as your closest back.
Pepper spray is a joke.
Flashlight is primarily a night tool and not deemed as defensive tool.
Baton a good tool but not always used
Handcuffs-when you make an arrest.
Side-arm (45 caliber) and used only in potential lethal situations to self or others.

Most of tools you mention are not used as often as you think. Cops used their command presence, verbal skills and their hands daily to make arrests.

[Avelardo]

Welcome to the forum, Avelardo.



Not judging by most of the dialog on this board, LOL.

My theory is that most who practice, do it because they love it. Not an altogether shabby reason, if you ask me.

Regards,
- kj

Your right KJ, I expected a lot more responses from the Wing Chun board. I love BJJ but like all martial arts it has its limitations. I would rather stop a fight with an efficient punch or kick then take someone to the ground. I have taken a lot of people to the ground on a variety of surfaces (asphalt, dirt, sand, and concrete) and my uniform always gets ruined.

[Avelardo]

[QUOTE=Brad]Not a Wing Chung guy, but I was just browsing through the other forums and came across this thread :p

If you studied any of those arts you listed enough to gain skill in each of them you should allready have everything covered. Punching, kicking, throwing, stand up grappling, ground grappling, and even some elbow and knee strikes. If you can put all those skills together into a coheasive framework, you'd have all ranges of hand to hand fighting covered. I don't think Wing Chun and any other art will offer you anything you'd find particularly new, but if you come across a wing chun teacher who you feel is superior to you in some area, then go ahead and study with him/her. You're the only one who could tell whether training in a particular Wing Chun place would be of any use to you.[/QUOTE

Perhaps your right. My boxing skills are decent and grappling skills are excellent perhaps I should add Muy Thai into my bag of tricks. I was just wondering if Wing Chun would add something new. I am truly surprised by the lack of responses. If someone, would ask me why train in BJJ I would write a laundry list of reasons and encourage him/her to train in BJJ or any other grappling art.

[kravi]

maybe you can write out that laundry list for bjj..

i train in bjj myself - and while i love it and enjoy the challenges so much.. i find it hard to defend the style against my wrestling buddy who trains freestyle.. who is convinced that it's a watered down form of wrestling/fighting..

now obviously i don't agree with this - and i will defend bjj to the death... but, im curious to know from a purple belt why bjj is better on the ground in comparison to sambo, or greco-roman... etc..

cheers,

[Tom Kagan]

Most of tools you mention are not used as often as you think. Cops used their command presence, verbal skills and their hands daily to make arrests.

You are proving both of my points regardless of the toolset used.


Enjoy your chosen method of spending your time. ;)

[Emeraldphoenix]

Wing chun is a good close quarter fighting style.

The forum likes to beat up on new people.

I know a few officers that swear by wing chun because it teaches you to stay calm at close range and they are abble to maintain good control over an individual without destroying the guy. In your line of work as you know you put a serious hurting on a guy, you may be sitting in front of a panel explaing your actions.

Good luck and dont let these guys discourage you.

[Fajing]

Hi,

I am new to the board. I have trained in a variety of martial arts such as boxing, Hapkido, Kung Fu San Soo, wrestling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I currenly have a purble belt in BJJ and have studied off and on for 10 years. I have a hectic schedule (police officer) and don't get to roll as much as I would like to get the brown and black belts in BJJ. In a few months, I will be assigned to investigations and will have a normal schedule. I will up my BJJ training and would like to study a few other styles. I am interested in Muy Thai, Krav Maga and Wing Chun. I am familiar with Muy Thai and Krav Maga but have no clue about Wing Chun. Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?

Hello Avelardo! Wing Chun may be a good addition to your arsenal of empty hand combat. Wing Chun is a good stand up striking style. It works well at very close quarters. Rapid punching, striking, trapping, and body control over your opponent if used properly. I believe it's a very practical and direct to the point MA. After studying a few other styles and being exposed to many, I still prefer Wing Chun. THis may work well for you if you are looking for a standup style with loads of striking. ;) PEACE

[grashoper]

I think that Wing Chun would a asset to your skill that you have already gained. I have trained in tkd and now I am training in Wing Chun. I have found that with Wing Chun the principle is very easy to understand but hard to master (take out your opponent as quickly as possible with the least amount of effort). I know a police officer and we have talked about self defense and shared different applications. When I compared the moves the Wing Chun system seems to be a little quicker in trying to disable the other person. I am not saying that Wing Chun is better than any other system but I think it is good to have a varity in you arsenal so you are equiped to handle different situations.


A wise man walks with an open mind.:)

[DRleungjan]

Hey there,

I can't tell anyone why they have to study or is it worth it to study Wing Chun because all martial arts carry with them their own merits and non-merits. I will say, however, why I study WC. Like Kj said that most people practice the art becuse they love it...that includes me also. ;)

Why do i love it?...hmmm...let me see...that's a toughy but I'll give it a try... WC carries with it (at least the version that I study) a solid base of long and short range techniques. Many people have the misconception when it comes to WC of having litte or no foot works. Well, what I study has a whole plethora of it. The WC that I study is something that I know I can use to a degree.

As always the human element is a very important factor of why someone would even 'waste' their time in studying any martial art. A good sifu always keeps their students interested. Mine has done a **** good job in doing so. Remember that NO one art has all of the answers...those usually lie with the practitioner themselves. WC has given me a solid philosophical outlook toward life, which I believe is very important for us. I can say more but hey, through my short experience, WC gives you choices.

Have a nice day.

DRleungjan :)

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Your right KJ, I expected a lot more responses from the Wing Chun board. I love BJJ but like all martial arts it has its limitations. I would rather stop a fight with an efficient punch or kick then take someone to the ground. I have taken a lot of people to the ground on a variety of surfaces (asphalt, dirt, sand, and concrete) and my uniform always gets ruined"


"Perhaps your right. My boxing skills are decent and grappling skills are excellent perhaps I should add Muay Thai into my bag of tricks. I was just wondering if Wing Chun would add something new. I am truly surprised by the lack of responses. If someone, would ask me why train in BJJ I would write a laundry list of reasons and encourage him/her to train in BJJ or any other grappling art."


***BASED ON THESE 2 POSTS I have to conclude that avelardo is trolling.

First of all....police can get into all sorts of legal trouble if they punch or kick someone when they could have conceivably brought them to the ground and restrained them without actually injuring them with a strike or kick that might leave marks, break bones, or draw blood. I actually had a conversation with a policemen recently about the dangers of grappling with someone without any experience on the part of the officer - and he was interested in coming to my wrestling classes to get better at grappling.

It wasn't about not getting his uniform dirty!!!:rolleyes:

Secondly...the remark about the laundry list of reasons for studying BJJ and any other grappling art - coupled with his respect for the skills inherent on boxing and Muay Thai....well...

does the word "knifefighter" ring a bell? :cool: :D

[Knifefighter]

"does the word "knifefighter" ring a bell? :D

Many people know I'm not a huge fan of WC ,per se, but I don't post under other names.

[Vajramusti]

" Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given your description of your background--- why bother?

The field appears to be already fairly crowded with dabblers, critics, trolls and wise guys.

[chisauking]

Ah, you are back!

And in fine form, may I add.

[Avelardo]

***BASED ON THESE 2 POSTS I have to conclude that avelardo is trolling.

First of all....police can get into all sorts of legal trouble if they punch or kick someone when they could have conceivably brought them to the ground and restrained them without actually injuring them with a strike or kick that might leave marks, break bones, or draw blood. I actually had a conversation with a policemen recently about the dangers of grappling with someone without any experience on the part of the officer - and he was interested in coming to my wrestling classes to get better at grappling.

It wasn't about not getting his uniform dirty!!!:rolleyes:

Secondly...the remark about the laundry list of reasons for studying BJJ and any other grappling art - coupled with his respect for the skills inherent on boxing and Muay Thai....well...


I am a 15 year street cop I have had a lot of street fights and what you said about cops would get into legal trouble for punching and kicking is 100% crap. The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Departments trains their deputies in Krav Maga techniques which includes punches and kicks. Most police/sheriff departments in the West teach punching, kicking, and palm strikes,. Most cops won't grapple because they don't know how. Have you ever grappled on asphalt, concrete, sand, or on brick driveway? I have and each time my uniform has torn (ruined) and I never said dirty.

I posted the question on this board because I was interested in learning more about Wing Chun and was hoping you Wing Chun guys would help me out. Then I get some guy who has no police training write about how cops would get into trouble if the kick or punch someone. Perhaps from the region your are from but not in Western states.

[Avelardo]

maybe you can write out that laundry list for bjj..

i train in bjj myself - and while i love it and enjoy the challenges so much.. i find it hard to defend the style against my wrestling buddy who trains freestyle.. who is convinced that it's a watered down form of wrestling/fighting..

now obviously i don't agree with this - and i will defend bjj to the death... but, im curious to know from a purple belt why bjj is better on the ground in comparison to sambo, or greco-roman... etc..

cheers,

If you train in BJJ there's no reason for me to give you a laundry list you should know its merits and faults. Furthermore, when you roll with your wrestling buddy have your BJJ instructor watch the match so he can show you how to submit him.

[Avelardo]

[QUOTE=Emeraldphoenix]Wing chun is a good close quarter fighting style.

The forum likes to beat up on new people.

I know a few officers that swear by wing chun because it teaches you to stay calm at close range and they are abble to maintain good control over an individual without destroying the guy. In your line of work as you know you put a serious hurting on a guy, you may be sitting in front of a panel explaing your actions.

Good luck and dont let these guys discourage you.[/QUOTE


I must have hit a nerve with some guys when I said I was a cop and a BJJ student. I felt all those Internet Wing Chun punches and kicks. Can't we all get along? :-) Thanks for the information EP and that is the response I was hoping to obtain from you Wing Chun guys.

[Avelardo]

Hello Avelardo! Wing Chun may be a good addition to your arsenal of empty hand combat. Wing Chun is a good stand up striking style. It works well at very close quarters. Rapid punching, striking, trapping, and body control over your opponent if used properly. I believe it's a very practical and direct to the point MA. After studying a few other styles and being exposed to many, I still prefer Wing Chun. THis may work well for you if you are looking for a standup style with loads of striking. ;) PEACE


I like the fact that its an in your face kind of style and it appears to me that it would integrate easily with BJJ. Thanks for insight.

[Avelardo]

" Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given your description of your background--- why bother?

The field appears to be already fairly crowded with dabblers, critics, trolls and wise guys.


Thanks for the positive words. You have a good day now!

[Matrix]

Is it worth my time to study Wing Chun?Avelardo,
I would say that it depends. IF you can find a good sifu, then it's definitely worth the time. Otherwise, look elsewhere. For me, the Wing Chun is an excellent art. I just think that to get the full value you need a great mentor to lead you in the right direction.

[Avelardo]

Avelardo,
I would say that it depends. IF you can find a good sifu, then it's definitely worth the time. Otherwise, look elsewhere. For me, the Wing Chun is an excellent art. I just think that to get the full value you need a great mentor to lead you in the right direction.

I have decided that I will seek out instruction in Wing Chun. I know this question will raise a stir but where do I find a good sifu in the Los Angeles area? If you have any suggestions please send me a private message.

[Vajramusti]

"Ah, you are back!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks- just now and then.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Okay, Avelardo...you convinced me you're not trolling and you're not Dale Frank (knifefighter).

And yeah...here in NYC police have to be careful with excessive force (ie.- punches and kicks)...otherwise they could face some charges that perhaps in your neck of the woods might be tolerated more...(as in redneck country?)

Anyway: wing chun does offer some nice close quarter striking, blocking, deflecting, trapping, and controlling not really found in boxing or Thai boxing....although I wouldn't throw out your leads, crosses, hooks, and uppercuts just yet...but at very close range wing chun definitely brings lots of extras to the table. Some real nice close quarter low kicking and elbow strikes are also found in the system - and a few nice, high percentage sweeps that can flow right after strikes (which also include some palm strikes and finger strikes that can do a lot of damage).

And I reccommend this man, Eric Oram, for wing chun in your area (I know him for many years):

(Si-Fu Eric Oram)
Los Angeles Wing Chun Kung Fu Academy
2238 Purdue Ave, West LA, CA 90064
Tel/Fax: (310) 996 0302
lawingchun@verizon.net



And as for grappling very "rough" (since you seem to want to play rough)...you might want to look into catch as catch can wrestling...as there are ripping techniques (gouges, bites, hair pulls, elbows, fish-hooks, etc. baked right into the wrestling) and numerous submissions and controls that don't necessarily have to compromise what you may find to be very important "positional" controls in a real life...life or death situation.

For example - in CACC it's about trying to be in a dominant top position almost all the time - and numerous escapes and reversals are taught from underneath positions - as opposed to staying underneath and trying to go for slow positional advancements to a particular position before going for a submission - or perhaps simply a sub from the bottom.

(Yes..catch also has what you might view in BJJ as unorthodox subs coming from the bottom - in addition to arm locks I'm really now talking about lots of leglocks, ankle locks, and toeholds - but I wouldn't reccommend any of that in your busines...unless it's a momentary standing leg lock or something).

It's best in a real life situation to get up off the floor or at least to wrestle/grapple your way to a top position in the street than go for subs on the ground, imo.

Not that the BJJ that you already know doesn't have a lot to offer a policeman - because it does...including some devastating chokes needed in tough situations.

But CACC is a very rough style of grappling that you might find more conducive to fights on asphalt - including some great takedown defenses. (And some great takedowns - if you decide that it would be to your advantage to take some crazed bruiser down first).

Just picture a modified form of Greco-Roman that includes chokes, neck cranks, arm locks, body locks, etc. while trying to stay on top of the opponent as often as possible - and escaping successful takedowns (done to you) by learning how to get back to your feet immediately or reverse the takedown immediately so that you're on top (catch teaches quite a bit about this)...which is very conducive to actual fighting on the street - since your opponent might have something in his pocket which you might not be able to see from the ground until it's too late - or possibly a friend nearby.

[Knifefighter]

For example - in CACC it's about trying to be in a dominant top position almost all the time - and numerous escapes and reversals are taught from underneath positions - as opposed to staying underneath and trying to go for slow positional advancements to a particular position before going for a submission - or perhaps simply a sub from the bottom.

(Yes..catch also has what you might view in BJJ as unorthodox subs coming from the bottom - in addition to arm locks I'm really now talking about lots of leglocks, ankle locks, and toeholds - but I wouldn't reccommend any of that in your busines...unless it's a momentary standing leg lock or something)

Victor-
You should stop showing your ingnorance by pretending to know what BJJ is about. You really are clueless.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I'll leave that to Avelardo to decide.

[Avelardo]

I appreciate the information on Wing Chun and I think it will fit in with my BJJ training and job. You are right about NYPD, my cousin is a Sgt there and if they touch someone they have to write a Use of Force report. Geez, If I worked there, I would be writing UOF reports all day or get fired. Thank God my agency still believes in kicking ass when we have to. I don't know much about CACC but it sounds a lot like Luta Livre which is another grappling art from Brazil. In BJJ we don't use neck cranks and its considered (sucio) a dirty hold.

Now that you guys believe me that I am not trolling, I have an interesting story that got me curious about Wing Chun. Last week, a few buddies (non-cops) and I were in a sports bar in Mexico. My buddies and I were watching the UFC fights (I can't believe BJ Penn used very little BJJ) still bothers me. Anyways, there was a little guy(5-1, 120 lbs) that was selling flowers to customers and when he approached some dude about 5-9, 250 lbs, the guy got ****ed, pushed him and wanted to kick the little guy's ass.

A bouncer was holding the other guy back and I escorted the little guy to his car. Well, the guy broke free and came at us. I straight armed (football style) the dude in the face that sent him back. The little guy got into his car and drove off. Now, this guy wants to rip my head off. I think he had a few drinks but was not drunk. I went back into the bar to watch the fights and his friends took the guy away. Well, I had a feeling the guy would return(cop instincts) and told one my friend's (MMA practioner) to watch my back because the guy wants revenge.

Five minutes later, the guy reappears from a back entrance, and spots me at the bar (I was drinking bottled water-it's the truth) and moves a chair and takes a swing at me. I was calm, faced the dude, deflected his punch and did a straight line punched to his face. He then ran to the back entrance with three bouncers after him. All of sudden, I had people asking me what style of Kung Fu did I use and asked if it was it Wing Chun. I said it was a simple boxing punch but what impressed every one was the punch I deflected. My two budies said what ever you did looked real cool. It was not much of a fight but I got free bottle water from the bartender.

[Ultimatewingchun]

So your boxing looks like wing chun, huh? :D

Or does your wing chun look a little like boxing? :cool:


Check out Eric. And let us know how it goes.

[couch]

So your boxing looks like wing chun, huh? :D

Or does your wing chun look a little like boxing? :cool:


Check out Eric. And let us know how it goes.

I wonder why the words "Wing Chun" and the word "Boxing" were ever separated?

Or "Chinese" and "Boxing?"

Hmm. :)

That's it. I'm renaming the system to "Wing Chun Chi Sau."

Peace.

[Knifefighter]

and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I currenly have a purble belt in BJJ and have studied off and on for 10 years.

Where do you train BJJ?

[Phil Redmond]

I have a close buddy that was a NYC cop. Victor knows him. He had a saying about grappling with a suspect if you're on the job. It goes like this. "If I'm grappling with someone my gun becomes our gun"
Phil

[Avelardo]

Where do you train BJJ?

I train with Rodrigo Teixeira.

[Kapten Klutz]

I was calm, faced the dude, deflected his punch and did a straight line punched to his face. He then ran to the back entrance with three bouncers after him. All of sudden, I had people asking me what style of Kung Fu did I use and asked if it was it Wing Chun. I said it was a simple boxing punch but what impressed every one was the punch I deflected.

Thanks for the interesting story, Avelardo. Could you describe the exchange a little more? How he punched and how you deflected (inside gate/outside gate like chunners say). Did the straight line punch to the face come at the same time as the block, or right after? I'm just curious because I enjoy these kind of real life reports.

[Avelardo]

Thanks for the interesting story, Avelardo. Could you describe the exchange a little more? How he punched and how you deflected (inside gate/outside gate like chunners say). Did the straight line punch to the face come at the same time as the block, or right after? I'm just curious because I enjoy these kind of real life reports.

I would describe his punch as a haymaker (telegraphed punch). It offered me the time to deflect it with my left hand and I followed up with a right jab/punch to his face. This confrontion lasted about five seconds. My buddy a MMA student said I threw a linear punch and not a horizontal punch.

[Kapten Klutz]

Thanks. Good story. Guess you earned the free water :D

[tansaujosh]

firstly guys lets not forget wot the thread was meant for, "why study wing chun" .:) n e way, ye basically there is no point in studying wing chun from my point of view, unless your really gonna be dedicated to it. if ur not then u mite aswell just become a BJJ master and put as much effort into it as you can. good luck with whatever you do

[Yung Apprentice]

There is a WC teacher here in Vegas, that is a Metro cop. If I'm not mistaken he taught at the police academy.