Renzo charged with assault

[Badger]

Renzo Gracie was recently written up on assault charges when he slapped a gas station owner. We recently spoke
with Renzo about this and here are his comments.

Renzo: "My wife drove through a gas station and pulled up to another one. At that point the 1st gas station owner
became angry that she had crossed through his business and stopped at his competitor's, so he started yelling at
her when she got out to pump gas. He said, "Don't f%^*@ing ever drive through here again you ------- -----"
The fact that our young child was in the car didn't seem to stop him as he continued to hurl profane insults at her.
When she got home she was visibly shaken and when I asked her what had happened she recounted the story to
me.
I could tell that the incident had left her frightened. Two days later I stopped at the station and asked the owner
why he had spoken like that to my wife. I did it in a calm and humble way, as my intent was not to fight this man,
but rather to feel safe that he would not again frighten my wife when she stopped for gas. Instead of an apology,
the station owner responded with, "Hey f---k you and get outta here." At that point he put his hand on me as if to
forcibly remove me from the premises. He must have confused me for a woman or a young child. I then slapped
him. I would have punched him but he was not worthy of a punch from me, so I slapped him hard. He fell to the
ground and then crawled away. Like a worm he crawled away. They later called the police and I waited for their
arrival."


Too bad our laws protect such slimy cowards.I would have done the same as Renzo.

Badger

"When life hands you a blank, load it anyway and act real intimidating."--Unknown l

[Clyde the Glide]

I have not had a chance to check it out, but others have said Renzo has also posted an account of this at his web site, too. If he truly approached the guy in a humble, respectful manner and was greeted with profanity and being grabbed or pushed or whatever, then seems to me he only responded to the gas station guy's assault against him. I have nere met Renzo, but I have heard he is truly a nice, humble person. Too bad really.

Clydeus Maximus: Mutt-fu Grand Master and Dominator of Cocky Teenagers in my youth group.

[Ryu]

Even though I don't necessarily disagree with what he did (Renzo's always had kind of a temper ;) )

It may be really trying for him because of who he is... I guess he's got money to back himself up though. Who in the heck would say "F" you to Renzo?????

besides Sak :D

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimuraosawa.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Ralek]

Renzo is the man!!!!!

TKD the real street lethal!!!!

[truewrestler]

"Who in the heck would say "F" you to Renzo?????"

Someone who doesn't know who he is. Maybe the gas station guy saw Renzo's chicken legs and thought he was just some skinny brazilian =)

Renzo is a bad bad man. Bad as in awesome!

[truewrestler]

See, Chicken Legs

<img src=http://a1140000.futurism.ws/susumu/pride/000827/susumu24.JPG><img src=http://a1140000.futurism.ws/susumu/pride/000827/susumu23.JPG>
<div align=center><img src=http://a1140000.futurism.ws/susumu/pride/000827/susumu26.JPG></div>

[Mr. Nemo]

I would have liked to see the expression on the gas station owner's face when he first learned that Renzo is a top-shelf no-holds-barred fighter. He should be thanking his lucky stars that he only got slapped.

[GLW]

Sorry...but Renzo will probably lose this one in court....

First, there were two days. Enough time for a lawyer to make a case for premeditation on Renzo's part.

Second, Renzo has a reputation that will not help him.

Third, if you go into a person's business and talk about an incident two days old, and the proprietor tells you to leave....even if it is said rudely, and you do not, if he lays hands on you, he MAY have a case of you being guilty of trespassing.

Fourth, from a legal standpoint, responding to a touch or even a push toward a door with a strike - even a slap strike - would probably be considered inappropriate force.

Fifth, Most people tell others NOT to go to a business, may go so far as to call on the phone, may write a letter to the company that owns the name (Exxon, Shell, etc... and let the corporate structure handle it)... but going down there and not even considering the possibility of violence happening is not very wise.

He may have been provoked...but he showed bad judgement, poor control, and will probably lose in a court of law. Pity but that is the way society and the legal system works.

[Budokan]

F*ck you, Renzo.

See, it ain't that hard to do.

K. Mark Hoover

[SifuAbel]

If called as a defense witness I'd say renzo was being nice in just to slap him only once and controlled. He could have done much worse very easily. The gas station owner didn't have to act in an agressive manner. His movements were out of pure reflex. He defended himself and confronted a threat to his family and community. He did not approach the situation to be hostile.


vs.


As an witness for the state I'd be employed to say that as martial artists he should have employed a greater restraint. It was up to him to file a charge with the police, instead of just lashing out on the owner. (I might even be coached to say)Ring fighters are conditioned to be agressive and tend to subdue thier control in order to be effective in the ring. This would lead to a habitual use of violence.


What do you think?k

Are you immortal?

sifuabel@yahoo.
com

[jun_erh]

He should have vandalized the place or dressed up like a ninja and peed on the guy. Something where he couldn't be arrested, yunno? :D

[HuangKaiVun]

If I were Renzo Gracie, I wouldn't have gone back myself to confront the guy.

I would've filed a formal complaint. No way am I going to put myself into a lawsuit by physically confronting anybody - especially since I'm a trained martial artist who will be accused of using no restraint.

If I were on the jury, I'd side with Renzo Gracie because he's a martial artist that clearly could've mauled this guy into the grave right there.

[Jimbo]

Unfortunately, Renzo will almost certainly lose this one unless the gas station owner decides to drop it. Renzo is a professional fighter and in a court of law would likely be viewed as a "lethal weapon." (hey, I didn't say I agree with that, just that's the way I think the jurors and the court will see it).

In the late '70s, a TKD teacher, Hee Il Cho, spin-back kicked and punched a large man that came into his studio who challenged him and made a move at him. He broke the guy's ribs and jaw, and he was sued and ended up paying a LOT of money for the guy's injuries and "pain and suffering." Keep in mind his attacker came onto HIS premises and attacked HIM, yet the law called Cho a "legal weapon" and sided with his attacker.
Jim

[Grahf1]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>F*ck you, Renzo.
See, it ain't that hard to do.[/quote]

Whatever..

[Waidan]

Here's a tip: Don't wait for the cops. Remove your shoe from the guy's butt, grab a Brisk out of the mini-fridge, and drive off.

[HuangKaiVun]

Personally, I cannot be convinced that Hee Il Cho had to pull a spinning kick + punch combo to take out the fool that attacked him.

Why couldn't this truly great master of Tae Kwon Do simply have called the police on this guy and have him arrested for trespassing?

And even if Cho was forced to respond, why did he have to respond with such force? Couldn't he, with his years upon years of martial training, have subdued his opponent with far less injurious result?

Because Cho created medically provable damage (x-rays of ribs, jaw, doctors reports), he put himself in a tough spot in the eyes of the jury.

The great Taijiquan master Cheng Man Ching, upon being challenged by an upstart, asked the guy to sign a waiver form accepting the possibility of DEATH (upstart refused to sign, no battle was joined).

While this document does not hold water from a legal standpoint, it does alert the jury to the fact that the plaintiff knew what he was getting into and was willfully incurring the risk of being gravely injured.

Then again, my lawyers told me to DEFEND myself if physically attacked - along with all of the other stuff above.

They reminded me in no uncertain terms that it's better to be tried by 6 than carried by 12.

[Ralek]

It's "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"


Renzo is the man. He did the right thing. He defended himself usign the least amount of force when the gas station owner assualted him. It was self defense when the gas man grabbed him.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

[Badger]

Ya know ,you may not be so bad afterall.

Badger

"When life hands you a blank, load it anyway and act real intimidating."--Unknown l

[Jimbo]

Huang:
I'm just relating what the story was. This happened back in 1978 or so. The large guy had apparently come into his studio and began disrupting the class. Cho claims he asked him to please sit down. Later the guy got up and went onto the studio floor and began punching the heavy bag. Cho said he asked him to leave and the guy was belligerent, so he and his brother tried to show him out, but supposedly the guy then lunged at Cho, who said he did a spin back kick to the body and followed up with two punches.

I don't know why Cho couldn't have reacted with less force. Perhaps his personal style, or the way he trains, pays little emphasis on controlling techniques? It could have happened too fast to worry about the other guy's well-being? I don't know. Cho is not a big guy, and the other guy supposedly was. He stated he "just reacted." (although he admits his brother pulled him off, and helped the guy up).

That might have been a good idea to have had a contract like that ready for a challenger to sign, but realistically, how many sifu, sensei, etc., will have one available for such an event? Though I agree it could at least show he tried to dissuade his attacker or show he was the defender rather than the attacker. True, ideally, a master *should* be able to deal with a fool like that by inflicting less damage, but indidents rarely occur in an ideal manner.

Although the law frowned on what happened, I personally feel zero sympathy for the a$ that got hurt, because he got a bit of what he deserved, at least IMO. But I'm not the law.
Jim

[This message was edited by Jimbo on 10-23-01 at 03:46 PM.]

[jun_erh]

In the past and even to some extent today, it was pretty much mandatory for teachers to take accept challenges. I have historical data to back that up if you'd like, but it's not too hard to beleive I think. It's jsut the way it is. Obviously, that will have to change in these litigatious times.
Also, I think none of us would be allowed to be on that jury for obvious reasons.
Where does Renzo Gracie live? you could put up flyers in the area, or write a letter to the local paper explaining the situation. You figure Gracie's wife would be a little tougher! Just kidding. We're behind you man if you reading this ;)

[HuangKaiVun]

Thanks for the story, jimbo.

But didn't Cho realize that he should've rejected the guy in the first place and called the cops on him instantly?

I'm not condemning Cho for his self-defense, but I made sure that I consulted with my lawyer about such issues - and I haven't even open a school yet.

And if you think about it, paying a ton of money is better than having broken ribs AND a broken jaw, no?

[JasBourne]

Renzo should have taught his wife how to fight. Then she could have choked the guy out right on the spot (self defense), and Renzo wouldn't be going to court on a lost case.

:D

[BeiKongHui]

Renzo's lucky the station owner didn't bust a cap in his ass. I think I would have.

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[CD Lee]

You would not have busted a cap. Renzo was nice to the guy remember, and was calm? What about that would justify shooting someone. Bad breath?