Gracie VS Shamrock

[SimonM]

So did Shamrock make a soft paste of Gracie?

More importantly can somebody PLEASE tell me how Cung Le did. Sherdog has nothing on the two top fights of the night!

[Pork Chop]

SPOILER ALERT



Both got 1st round knockouts. Cung at like 3min, Frank at like 20 seconds.

[SimonM]

If anyone has video footage or even stills from these two fights let me know!

[n.mitch]

glad that frank won do you have any more info, i couldnt find any results on the net just pre match talks did you see the results on the web?

[splinter]

Apparently the event is supposed to be aired on Fox Sports in 30 days. I'd be surprised if you could find footage before that unless someone snuck in a handycam.

[WanderingMonk]

glad that frank won do you have any more info, i couldnt find any results on the net just pre match talks did you see the results on the web?

not to pump another forum, but where else to find info on MMA PPV but
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=4109

[n.mitch]

thanks monk i couldnt get a seach result before, maxfighting are always behind in their news

[SifuAbel]

BJJ wins again..........................oh...........wait.

[Hieronim]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/picture_gallery.asp?f_id=11787@@Mike%20Altman

[GeneChing]

Cung defeated Altman in 3:51 in the 1st round by knockout. It was all stand-up fighting; I was disappointed that we didn't get to see any of Cung's ground skills. Cung just kicked the snot out of Altman. His attack was mostly comprised Muay Thai kicks, an absolutely stunning barrage to Altman's head, flanks and stomach. He finished Altman with a reverse sidekick that bounced him off the cage and back into Cung's awaiting fist - it was a total Tony Jaa style move. After which, Cung gave big props to Sanshou.

We were seated on the floor, right next to the glory entrance ramp. Our publisher, Gigi, who Cung sometimes refers to as 'mom' since she sponsored him for many fights early in his career (we still make his robes), gave Cung the high five as he entered the cage. She says she's Cung's good luck charm because he's won every fight that she's attended.

Shamrock defeated Gracie in 21 seconds. He cut loose a series of rights punches that took Gracie with blinding speed. The ref had to pull him off from drilling Gracie's head to the floor with punches. It was too fast to be entertaining, but you got to respect that kind of efficiency.

I've seen a lot of MMA video, but this was the 1st legally-sanctioned bout in CA outside of Indian reservations. I was surprised how much stand up fighting there was - Jackson vs. Ortiz was littel more than a boxing match. I expected more groundwork. But on the whole, it was very satisfying.

[SevenStar]

what kind of a matchup was that? frank had had 28 fights prior - At age 40, that was cesar's first fight...

[Ray Pina]

Didn't that particular Gracie member issue a challenge to Shamrock via the internet... a broad challenge which took a few years to come to fruition?

[Shaolinlueb]

once again a shamrock proves the gracies arent all they are cracked up to be. :D

[Anthony]

When fighters win by such a large margin I don't think it's necessarily because they are so good. I think (suspect) that they are actually picking much lesser opponents.

I don't know anything about the fight business but does anyone here know anything about this. People never seem to question how good of an opponent someone has when they win.

Mike Tyson knocked out loser after loser (for a long time) and everyone thought he was great. The few times he fought someone decent he either went the distance and got a decision (in an uninteresting fight) or lost badly.

[GreenCloudCLF]

what kind of a matchup was that? frank had had 28 fights prior - At age 40, that was cesar's first fight...

Ray Pina is right. Cesar talked smack and issued the challenge. I don't fault Shamrock for taking it. I do fault him for saying that this would put an end to the Shamrock/Gracie feud...Cesar isn't good enough to end that.

And I heard Cesar isn't a real Gracie. i heard he married a Gracie daughter and took her name. Anyone else hear that too?

[SevenStar]

once again a shamrock proves the gracies arent all they are cracked up to be. :D


nah - that was just a mismatch from the start. a guy with 28 fights and a championship under his belt would be a laughing stock if he lost to a guy who was having his first fight and is 7 years older than him...

[SevenStar]

When fighters win by such a large margin I don't think it's necessarily because they are so good. I think (suspect) that they are actually picking much lesser opponents.

I don't know anything about the fight business but does anyone here know anything about this. People never seem to question how good of an opponent someone has when they win.

Mike Tyson knocked out loser after loser (for a long time) and everyone thought he was great. The few times he fought someone decent he either went the distance and got a decision (in an uninteresting fight) or lost badly.


umm..... 44 of tyson's 50 wins were by KO... so he only beat 6 decent fighters? michael spinks was undefeated until tyson KOed him in round one. his record was 31-1...

however, you are right in your assumtion about why some fighters easily beat others. They fight "tomato cans" for experience in preparation for bigger fights.

[Becca]

When fighters win by such a large margin I don't think it's necessarily because they are so good. I think (suspect) that they are actually picking much lesser opponents.

I don't know anything about the fight business but does anyone here know anything about this. People never seem to question how good of an opponent someone has when they win.

Mike Tyson knocked out loser after loser (for a long time) and everyone thought he was great. The few times he fought someone decent he either went the distance and got a decision (in an uninteresting fight) or lost badly.
... Or he would just bite them.:D

[GeneChing]

Personally, I felt the last two bouts were a bit manipulative. Cung and Frank, the two local champs from San Jose, were favored to win and they did. The audience got their bread and circuses. I'd say that the bulk of the audience were not martial artists. They booed whenever there wasn't obvious action and showed a general naivete about what was happening in the cage. But hey, what do you expect?

For me personally, well, I love to watch Cung fight always, of course, but the two fights I enjoyed more were Crafton Wallace vs. Raymond Routh and the lightweight Championship bout between Josh Thompson and Clay Guida.

Wallace was more of a kicker/puncher, while Routh was always going for the takedowns and ground moves. Wallace won, mostly by picking Routh off as he tried to enter. Strategically, that bout was fascinating to watch.

Thompson was another San Jose local, so the crowd was fired up, plus being a championship bout, it was a 5 x 5. Guida managed to cut up Thompson in the first round, and maintained dominence on the mount, trapping Thompson in the corners. However, Thompson was tough and kept finagling these remarkable reversals. I kept hoping he could recover, but he'd only get a few shots off until Guida would get on top of him again. Guida was pounding him with punches and elbows to the head, working those cuts and nearly closing up Thompson's eye. But Thompson went 5, to his credit. Even though he lost, I admire his tenacity.

Jose Palacios was supposed to fight too, but for some reason didn't show. His opponent, Sean Bassett, walked into the cage with fanfare, then left, leaving the crowd befuddled.

[SimonM]

Even if it was a bit manipulative I am quite glad that Cung won.

Now Sanshou/San Da has representation in MMA that hasn't just gotten arm-barred out. I would have loved to see Cung kick the crap out of his opponent and from what I hear he wasn't exactly a tomato can anyway.

[SifuAbel]

Wallace was more of a kicker/puncher, while Routh was always going for the takedowns and ground moves. Wallace won, mostly by picking Routh off as he tried to enter. Strategically, that bout was fascinating to watch.
.


But thats impossible !!! :rolleyes:

[SevenStar]

But thats impossible !!! :rolleyes:


not if wallace was versed in grappling or routh was not a GOOD GRAPPLER(tm)

[GeneChing]

As for Routh, we never got to see if he could really grapple or not. He kept trying to shoot in and Wallace would clock him with a punch, kick or knee and shut him down. Wallace had Routh's timing, and his last shot was dead on target, knocking him out of the game.

[5thBrother]

who is Caesar Gracie?

[yenhoi]

what kind of a matchup was that? frank had had 28 fights prior - At age 40, that was cesar's first fight...

'twas the most watched, most attended, biggest mma event ever, and the first sanctioned in "california."

Google video is putting the fights up for internet ppv now or sometime soon:

http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=1059

:eek:

[quickjab]

http://youtube.com/results?search=cung+le+mma&search_type=search_videos&search=Search
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.



Good debut for Cung Le, though alot of questions went unanswered.

[hskwarrior]

are the flips he does like the suplex and what ever else he's known for not allowed in the UFC?

I would like to see how shooting in and picking up the guy the way Cung does works in the ufc

peace.

hsk

[quickjab]

yes they are allowed.

[SAAMAG]

It's too bad it didn't go to the ground. To be honest I wasn't impressed with the fight at all. Contrary to the idiot commentators...Cung did get off balance after many of those kicks, and was postured like he was point fighting afterwards...spinning around and ****. Good knockout though.

[rogue]

Altman could have done mor but it was refreshing to see.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

It was a good fight,...regardless of what the 'weekend warriors' might say. Congrats to Cung, he handled himself like a champ.

I can't believe some of you are criticizing.....some of you people on these forums are very funny.

[hskwarrior]

i got mad respect for the man and think he did helluva job.

but would anyone agree, Cung Le looked a little awkward in that ring? there was something about his movement that wasn't truly him.

hsk

[WinterPalm]

I've never seen either guy fight so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think Le carried himself very well. He definately has some very good kicking, knows his distance very well. His presence was his biggest advantage. Altman was very scared, probably a mix of the last time they fought and Le's presence. WIth his excellent use of range in that fight I would wager to say that he has some of the top kicking in the game. The only thing that remains to be seen is him fighting against a better opponent, where he can truly test himself.

[SAAMAG]

It was a good fight,...regardless of what the 'weekend warriors' might say. Congrats to Cung, he handled himself like a champ.

I can't believe some of you are criticizing.....some of you people on these forums are very funny.

I think it's funny that when someone criticises that you call them a weekend warrior. It's absolutely obvious to anyone that has seen Cung Le fight previously, and to someone who trains live (whether "mma" or something else) that something was off in this fight. It was like they were playing tag for the most part...once in a while you'd see a 1-2 hit. Good distance, but Cung left himself in many vulnerable positions many times after his attacks that a better skilled opponent would've capitalized on.

I think that Cung is an awesome fighter...and he's one of my favorites. I'm no where near as good as he is, and I'm willing to bet you aren't either...so you should take other people's comments with a grain of salt. Have a coke and a smile and STFU.

[metsubushi]

All of the times I've seen Cung Le fight I've never been impressed with any of his opponents.

[SimonM]

Accursed Youtube! Can somebody please post this to something that is not Youtube or Google video?

[Yung Apprentice]

I liked it. Yes there was something a bit off about Cung Le, but I think he was just nervous. Different venue, a lot of pressure to win. In the begining of the fight he was stiff, towards the end he started looking more like his normal self. I think he'll continue to look stiff until he gains more confidense and gets more familiar with the octagon. Hopefully they don't rush him into the big name guys quickly.(especially the grapplers)


Does anyone know if he's doing any ground training. I would think it very foolish if he doesn't. He doesn't have to become Royce Gracie, but more like Liddel, enough to survive on the ground, and get back to his feet.

[metsubushi]

He was a really good wrestler in high school and college, and he's training BJJ now.

[Hieronim]

every single striker that enters mma doesnt look the same, striking in mma enables guys liek kenny florian to outstrike muay thai champions (kid kope).

[quickjab]

Florian didn't outstrike Cope, he submitted him. Strikers do very well in MMA. Look at Chuck Liddell and Mirko Cro Cop.

[Ford Prefect]

Yes. I'm a Kenny fan, but when he was standing with Kope, it was supremely evident that he needed to get the fight to the ground... and quick.

[Ray Pina]

I thought he looked good. His weapons looked strong, relaxed and ready to fly at will. Confidence!

[Chief Fox]

I think it was a good debut for Cung Le. He was very patient. I'd say 90% of his strikes were on target. Beautiful knock out. Jump spining back kick, blasts him off the fence right into a right hook. NICE!

I want to see more of Cung Le in MMA.

[Hieronim]

Florian didn't outstrike Cope, he submitted him. Strikers do very well in MMA. Look at Chuck Liddell and Mirko Cro Cop.


he stood with him for long enough to be hit yet didnt. Thats just one example. A better one is that boxer dude in ultimate fighter 2 I think it was who lost to that josh guy who won it and didnt even do anything depsite standing like 5 mins wiht him.

[GeneChing]

It was fun. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40708) :)

[quickjab]

Who would you guys most like to see Cung Le fight?

[Stranger]

and was postured like he was point fighting afterwards...spinning around and ****.

There are other MMA fighters and kickboxers that do this as well. It is hardly the mark of a "point fighter".

[quickjab]

If Cung Le is successful in MMA, what effects on CMA and San Shou/San Da will his success have?

[Yung Apprentice]

Who would you guys most like to see Cung Le fight?

First I would like to see how he would fair against a decent grappler. Then I would LOVE to see him fight Liddel!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i thought he did really well.