new website

[hskwarrior]

ok i gone and did it again.

i put out another zoomshare website and this time its on all 3 famillies of Choy Lee Fut.

here: http://www.clfhistory3fam.zoomshare.com

Now its still under construction and im open to suggestions. I will also be adding a photo album for each branch in the photo albums section. in each one i will post up photo's.

I truly did this to honor of great CLF system and tried to get everyone's histories correct.

oh, if you have any good comments pls put in the blog section of the website. that would be something good to read.

be fair,

thanks
hsk

[TenTigers]

excellent site. and I;m sure the Buk Sing guys will enjoy the honor and recognition

[hskwarrior]

Rick,

thanks man. Can you do me a favor and show that to DF for me? I would like to know what they think.

Oh if you get a chance, can you leave a message in the blog, i want to see how the blog thing goes.


thanks again for the kind words Rick

[fiercest tiger]

Congrats Frank, good that you are REPRESENTING boyyyyy! ;)

[Infrazael]

Frank, this is an awesome site. I look forward to more stuff in the future.

Long live Choy Lee Fut!

[hskwarrior]

Thanks All For The Nice Comments.

As I've Said In The Past, I May Be Die Hard Hung Sing Man, But Choy Lee Fut Is Choy Lee Fut And Regardless Of What Branch We Come From We Are All Still Family.

Sifu Mike P. Thanks For The Blog Message, Hopefully Others Will Follow Your Lead.

In Your Opinions Is That Website Doing "good" For Choy Lee Fut?


Hsk

[Fu-Pow]

Choy Lee What? Is that some kind of karate or something?:p

[hskwarrior]

NONONONONONNONONONONONONONNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


YOU ARE PROUNOUNCING OUR STYLE WRONG. YOU SAY IT LIKE THIS......

"CHAR-LIE'S-FOOT"


GET IT STRAIGHT

:p

[Shaolindynasty]

It would be nice if you put up a large section bringing the "3 branches" together with similarities etc.

After all most of the differences between the "3 branches" are minor. The conclusion people may draw would be that there are 3 different styles of choy lay fut. Since your intention is unity it would be good to focus on the similarities.

Also I would give references/links to your info and photos

good effort overall

[fu jow]

hey frank, i just saw the new site. i love it. thats the most information ive ever read at once. good job. kenny

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Charlie's Foot! That is soo funny!

Some of you guys who know me, know that I was a disciple of Chan Tai-San. Sifu Chan didn't speak English. I, along with several of his students, can speak Canontese. Anyway, sometimes you didn't want to bring up stuff in front of my Sifu at certain times. If we said, "Choy Lay Fut", he would hear/understand us and start going into some rant regarding the style. So, as to not alert him of what we were talking about, we'd use codes, like; "Charlie's Foot", so he wouldn't derail the conversation.

Otherswise, he'd would be like; (In Cantonese) "Choy Lay Fut? Is that what you guys are talking about? I've been studying CLF since I was 13, it's a great style...did you know....?" And then there would be a 25 minute dissertation, 80% of which we wouldn't understand.

Anyway,...Charlie's Foot. We thought we were the only one's who ever said that.

Very Funny.

[hskwarrior]

Sifu Mike,

yeah thats funny. my friends used to tell people "he studies charlies foot" and then people would look at me and ask whats so interesting to study charlies foot for? iiiiiiiiii..........just didn't know what to say and started laughing.

Shaolin dynasty, i totally agree with you and since i am almost out of free space on that site i will create a new one that will discuss the differences and the similarities between our branches. but remember, it does change also from sifu to sifu who add in their own two cents.

If anyone wants to post it here or email me their opinions on what they feel their school or branch does differently to others we can discuss it or i will research it more and write my discoveries.

Kenny, my phone is working again, so if you still have my number call me and so you can come over to our school and check it out and meet my sifu.


but thanks for the suggestions and the kind words.

hsk

[htowndragon]

man frank

your site got it all wrong


we all know that the real creator of charlie's foot was CHUCK NORRIS

[CLFNole]

I think what you are trying to do is nice. Not trying to stir things up but when comparing the different versions dates and ages don't match up with Chan Heung and Jeong Yim.

[hskwarrior]

well, Clfnole........you know what i'd expect that from you. its funny i always see you in my mind sitting there with a serious look on your face and your arms crossed .

well, even the chan family admit that in their own records there are too many controversial dates and such.

the best we could do is something like what i did and just accept that each branch has a different version to the history. and on the most basic level we will truly know the truth. but do we just throw away our history because there is no way to prove it or disprove it? No! we will continue to tell ours, they will theirs and so will buk sing.

my site is the first to try and combine all three families in an honorable way. regardless if you stay skeptical, all i hope is that Chan Heung, Jeong Yim and Tam Sam are happy with what i did. i did it for them.

it is a well known fact that "not any one branch outside your direct school teaches the same choy lee fut. i mean your school cannot correct my school, and the buk sing kwoon would not correct Sifu Edmund Ng on his choy lee fut. its got to make you wonder why isn't choy lee fut the same since it is choy lee fut.

but no one thinks about Chan heung only teaching his gung fu to his direct line of students. Jeong Yim was of that line, but none of Chan Heung's sets are taught in Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

It should make you wonder why the hoi Jong's of each branch differ. i mean there are three different branches and all have different hoi jong's. if we were the same choy lee Fut then we should all practice the same thing. but we don't and you know that.

All Fut San Hung Sing Kwoons Hoi Jong up to the bow is always in the "L" shape, while Chan Heung's all seem to start right in the middle of the stage. The "L" shape Hoi Jong's are also found in the Buk Sing Branch are that of Jeong Yim's Fut San Hung SIng Kwoon and Not of Chan Heung's family style.

I understand you are skeptical of Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon because of Buk Sing Kwoon's involvement. But i don't see the problem since the buk sing kwoon is with out a doubt Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon. Tam Sam's personal school was called Hung SIng Tam Kwoon, then because of a few students it changed overto buk sing to make it easier. they probably also felt their gung fu was a little different to that of HSK but thats part of everyschool Im sure it even happens within Lee Koon Hung's schools too.

but either way, we have 2/3 of choy lee fut that follow the same story, while the other has their own version but stops at their founder and thats that.

regardless, i did it to honor our elders.

peace

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Frank,

I don't think you could have said it much better. :)

I think everyone is entitiled to their story. Fact probably is, none of the stories are actually 100% accurate. We find out everyday, that our own American history is skewed on a daily basis, what makes us think that with TCMA, that was spawed during time of war and sometimes in secret, would be accurate 170 years later? I think we have to be realists here.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, agree? Frank has done a great job expressing his, and putting a lot of info out there. He's not a conspiracy theorist, he's just letting people know that there are other possiblities out there. Here is the info, believe what you will.

Some stuff, no matter who tells the story, doesn't add up. Dates, generations, there is missing info that people have to be the best detective, and try to fill in accurately.

Hell, I have some new info since my last trip to Toi-San, that totally blew me away. Things that I had thought about my Sifu's CLF have changes, found out more about the temple he learned most of it in, etc. Beliefs can change. If one thing that history has taught us is, FACTS can mysteriously seem to change over time as well.

And even though we all do the same style, we all do different sets (some with the same name even) and we play a lot of our stuff different.

We are not an organized style as a group, unlike WC or Hung Ga people. But maybe that's a good thing. CLF is a progressive style and should stay that way. But just remember, we are all brothers.

Just my 3 cents!

[CLFNole]

Frank:

Once again you are a bit too sensitive, I was not attacking you or your site. My point is both sides have differences in history and I am not saying which side is right because you know what I don't know and no one will likely ever know. Both sides have had history change over the years. Look at the Chan side Choy Fook all of a sudden became Ching Cho (okay, somewhat convenient). On the Jeong Yim side first he died very young now it seems not so young.

To me when it comes down to history every side is going to tell a side of history that makes themselves look superior, be it Hung Sing, Buk Sing or Chan. If you look at it deep enough each ones history makes their side try to look somewhat superior. It is very similar to religion.

Your mental picture of me is way off I sit here a read stuff and take it all quite lightly. I only care about training CLF, my sifu wasn't much for history or politics and neither is my sifu now but I don't mind talking about it from time to time.

Like I said in my post I think what you have done is nice but I only read it once and the ages and things jumped right out at me. That was all I was commenting on.

As far as honoring our elders, I think all CLF people getting along as one family and just respecting the fact that each has their own belief of history and all CLF is good no matter how many or how few sets a branch might or might not have is a better way of achieving that goal.

Peace.

[hskwarrior]

CLFNOLE,

no, i am not too sensitive, i just know when it comes to history you are very skeptical.

i too was floored with the jeong yim dying young thing. but then my sifu and i decided to start counting backwards from CHan Ngau Sings direct family since his grandson and great granddaughter are still involved with the fut san hung sing kwoon.

when we did that and realized that Chan Ngau Sing was born in 1863 and didn't start learning from jeong yim until 1883 we knew that the death was probably a cover up story to tell the government. but we now know that him dying young was not true at all.

so by taking as much falseness as i can and try to discover the truth i will ultimately do my best to set the history straight. regardless, it has to be done.


you and me will always be cool clfnole, don't sweat it.


peace

[CLFNole]

Frank:

It's all good, by the way...why are you up so friggin early it 10 on the right coast and got to be 7 on the left?

I am with you on trying to learn as much about your history as possible and I respect everything you believe. I was just noting from the dates from the various histories is that someone is wrong or both could be wrong, the real truth ususally lies somewhere in the middle anyhow.

When Joe was in HK he was talking with some of our sihings and they were saying that the LKH line connection with Chan Family and Hung Sing stems from the belief that Chan Koon Pak studied with both his father and Jeung Yim. Now this is only a belief of some another connection is that Leung Kwai, who was Poon Dik's sifu studied with both Chan Koon Pak and Jeong Yim.

Keep up the good work with your sites.

[CLFNole]

Another we might want to explore is the actual birth year of Jeong Yim.

Assuming the Chan side is correct about Chan Hueng's age and when and how long he studied with Choy Fook and Lay Yau San. Then assuming when Chan Ngau Sing studied with Jeong YIm is would make more sense that Jeong Yim was born a bit later than indicated, which could have meant he was fairly young when he died.

[hskwarrior]

clfnole,

i'm up so friggin early because my sifu and i are going to the funeral of the slain white crane master. yesterday was the wake.

but i'll be back soon


hsk

[CLFNole]

Oh forgot about that, my condolences. I was talking about that whole incident last week with Sifu Chan Pui.

Talk to ya later.

[DF]

Congrat on the new site.

Frank, I sent a pm to you btw

DF

[freedomfighter]

hI hskwarrior,

Not a bad site at all. I've been training Buk Sing CLF for 4 years now and found the info informative.

I spoke to my Sifu a while ago and he said that Jeung Hung Sing was ambushed and died from multiple wounds at the age of approx 33..... he also said his brother had the same history and followed the Jeung Mung Yung of the Singapore HSK which also use this version.

I'm not here to cause controversy as I think the work you have done and your web page is awesome!!!

[hskwarrior]

whats up freedom fighter,

yeah at first before the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon re-emerged into the gung fu world, i was also told by the singapore HSK that Jeong Yim was ambushed by the jealous martial artists that were defeated by him. they said he was on a pier waiting for his ferry when two big burly men got into a fight. Jeong Yim stepped in to stop the fight and they turned their attacked on him where he fought them off using an umbrella killing at least 3 of them.

but I'm starting to think that Jeong Yim's people may have spread that rumor to hide him from the government since he was triad connected. They also said that Jeong Yims students went on a rampage and the master went running to the government.


anyways, at first i believed that Jeong Yim may have died around the age of 33, and that would have been sometime in the 1840's.

But where we realized that he wasn't ambushed then is because CHan Ngau Sing was born in 1863. that was at least 20 years after that supposed death. but what made it more interesting was that if Jeong Yim died young, how was he able to teach Chan Ngau Sing almost 40 years after his own death.

so, since CHan Ngau Sing's grandson is still in fut san, we went to his family got his death date, and their birth records and realized that jeong yim was NOT killed as the Singapore Hung Sing Kwoon had originally believed.

But according to the source, Jeong Yim was murdered in his older age by poison. he came back to fut san and fell ill. Chan Ngau Sing tried to bring him to his doctor but jeong yim died in 1893.

so there's no way Jeong Yim died young. i hope you can see what i mean. therefore, don't worry about controversy, we live that sheet around here.

i Just now with out a doubt that jeong yim died in an older age at a later date. the proof is Chan Ngau Sing/his birthdate, and the fact that the family still thrives in Fut San.

But freedom fighter, i know the two brothers you are referring to, and we all have the singapore hsk as a resource, but on this case the sing. hsk is totally wrong in this matter. and that is why my i tell my version. i want to go with the truth, not popularity.

still, im glad you liked the site. be good.


hsk

[Eddie]

so frank, when is that book of yours going to be finished? you seem to have some cool info, why dont you share it with the rest of us? or is all that on your site :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

eddie,

I am working on completing my first book called the "american hung sing kwoon",
i need to get together with my sifu and take the photo's of applications of Che Kuen, and maybe some general footwork and how it applies to self defense.

on my sites they are the watered down versions of my book.

the site with the "3 families of CLF" is also from one of my books with the same title, just hella watered down.

The reason i wanted to put out those sites is to finally share what i know instead of biding my time waiting to release the books. i sat back far too long and let everyone else talk, but then i said what the hell, just put up a website and let them be the judge to what you know or don't know.

in the "American Hung Sing Kwoon" book, i have a more detailed hung sing history, i tell Yuen Hai's history, Jew Leong, Lau Bun's (i got like 40 different pictures of lau bun) my sifu and at the end about me in the "about the author" section.

I hope to have the book out this year. we'll see.

thanks eddie,

hsk

[Eddie]

cool. let me know when its available. I will go through the info on the web page as time allows.

thanks for the pages, really cool and very usefull. where can i fiond more info on Jeong yims death?

[freedomfighter]

Hi hsk,

thanks for the info.

I saw that you got the pic of my Sisook with a student of his at Tam Sams gravesite..... very cool.

btw who is this DF guy your asking about checking out your buk sing info? I'm new here...... so don't know him. Maybe ask Sifu Shane or Sifu Vince? or msg my Sisook? although from what uve said about BSCLF its very accurate nyway. :)

Keep up the good work.

[hskwarrior]

can anyone here from the buk sing kwoon help me with the latter part of the history?

I'm trying to find out who were the students that went to ku ye jeung to learn northern?

and after Tam Sam and Lun Chee, wait does the family tree look like? i want to get everything as accurate as possible.

[CLFNole]

I think Leung Tse Cheung was one of Tam Sam's students that learned from Ku Yu Jeung. Leung Kai Ming is his son.

Frank did you read my post a few back about Jeong Yim's birth date? What do you think?

[hskwarrior]

Clfnole,

no one knows for sure what jeong yim's exact birthday. One source says he was born in 1824, the other says 1814. Not going to say the source, but in china i've been told that Chan Yiu Chi wrote that chan Heung was born in 1805, but there is some disagreement because they say he was born in 1815. the only way we could learn the truth about chan heungs actual birth records, and if there are none then we have to go by what they say. and if they say he was born in 1805, so be it.

but the 10 year thing is big in my book. but i don't want to start a whole history discussion all over again.

what you got to realize is that the chan family have already re-written their account in regards to the green grass monk. if they can do that, then why is it so impossible chan yiu chi messed with some records?

the historical problem didn't start till his generation.

hsk

[CLFNole]

My point was about who was right or wrong but if you look at your own site and follow Chan Heung's story about following Lau Yau San for x number of years and Choy Fook for y number of years if Jeung Yim came to hime when he was 12 their age gap would have to have been greater than what their date of births show.

So Jeung Yim could have been somewhat younger when he died.

[Shaolindynasty]

"the historical problem didn't start till his generation"

I only think it is becomming a problem with this generation

I never hear any of the older sifu even talk about this stuff unless asked. They are usually more focused on training in Choy Lay Fut and disscussing how to use it. My sifu for instance only comments on technique making comparisons between our clf and others. You'd never hear him say sifu x isnt any good because his dates are all screwed up.

This isn't a shot at anyone, it's just somthing I think about when these debates start. Maybe history is easier to talk about on the net as opposed to technique.

[hskwarrior]

see, this is the reason why i started the 3 family clf website. instead of fighting over who's story is more correct or not, i just wanted to tell the world our history as a whole, because as i see it, with all the divisions in CLF it is not complete one without the other.

Chan Heung developed Chan style choy lee fut, Jeong Yim developed his choy lee fut because he taught gangsters who liked to fight, and Tam Sam took the choy lee fut he learned to knew levels. As a whole, Choy Lee Fut as we read it on the site makes it look good. with a site like this where all stories are told without animosity choy lee fut can only benefit by us sticking together.

oh, and clfnole, i got the information about the chan family directly from theirs sights. The hung sing story i have had approved and basically runs along the very same lines on the site http://www.hongshengguan.com hit the english section and read it and see if i am far off from the sources version of our very own branch.

fut san hung sing tell no stories of Chan Heung and basically act as if what does he have to do with their gung fu, jeong yim is their founder?

but lets not argue about the history anymore. lets get back to techniques and such.


hsk

[hskwarrior]

I am proud to annouce that since i launched the 3 fam of clf website, it has been getting positive results.

members of all three branches had reacted positively and offered more encouragement towards what i'm trying to accomplish.

thanks for the support from those who aren't afraid to give it.


once again thank you.


Frank---hsk

[Mantis Fist]

excelent website good job

[greencloudtj]

Hay sifu keep up the good work are you going to bring some lion dancing to the site.