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8 Sweaty Palms
04-05-2001, 03:19 PM
Gentlemen,

I recently joined this gym that is designed for fighters. It has all of this state of the art equipment, bags, treadmills, etc. It's great, but the people who run it ignore you unless you pay extra for a personal trainer (who designs a program for you based on your goals, and helps you execute it). Unfortunately, between my bagua fees and gym membership I can't swing a trainer. And I signed a year-long membership because it was much more affordable than a short-term one.

I've never lifted weights regularly and know nothing about what I should be doing to enhance my bagua and physicality in general. Without guidance, I'm just sort of piddling around and I feel its a waste of time. I've got everything at my fingertips, but don't realy know where to start.

Can anybody make suggestions regarding what I should be doing in terms of weight lifting? What should I work on? How often? Which specific exercizes? Any input would be appreciated.

8SP

Water Dragon
04-05-2001, 04:11 PM
Deadlifts and military press. That's all you need. Do 1 set of 15 reps on the full body deadlift every 10 days. Do 2 sets of 8 reps on M. press once every 4 days. If you work to failure, you will grow quickly. DO NOT OVERTRAIN!!!!

Check these 2 sites out thouroughly:

http://www.hardgainer.com
http://www.cyberpump.com

Just like CMA, progress in weight training is developed by consistant work over time. There are no shortcuts.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

neijiachuan
04-06-2001, 02:35 AM
Hi 8 Sweaty Palms,

Weight Training can be a useful tool to the physical development to anyone. However in the internal arts if it is not the right kind of weight training and performed in the proper manner can cause difficulties to the Internal performance of the practitioner. Lifting weights to tone up or for strength will effect the level of relaxation that can be achieved in a very negative way. Being "pumped up" can lead to all sorts of problems. The body becomes stiff and rigid not permitting the body to be loose and relaxed. Weight lifting is associated with the sympathetic nervous system, which is directly against what the internal arts are trying to accomplish, which makes use of the parasympathetic nervous system.

Before I go on, let me state that I don't see martial arts as "internal" or "external". I have seen practitoners in each category with qualities of the other. But the use and degree of "sung", "center", and peng jing is something that does seem to distinguish the "internal" and "external" arts.

Now, there is a difference between "lifting weights" and "weight training". The famous walkign the circle w/ weights is a form of weight training. Bench pressing is clearly just lifting weights. I use to "lift" weights a lot, until my teacher told me to stop. It was really affecting my bagua performance in a negative way. So, just something to think about, maybe.

Regards,

Neijiachuan

Hieu Nguyen
07-01-2001, 04:21 AM
So any comments on resistance training? G├ľod? or Bad?

TheBigToad
07-01-2001, 05:28 PM
Go out to a used sporting goods store and buy two 16lb shot puts (college level) or maybe buy 2 of the 8lb first. Then hold these as you run through circle walking, go slow and be as snakelike in your arm work and body as possible and do it for 30 min. You will use muscles you never felt before and develop all over body power in multiple angles and be to direct force on a must broader sense then with weight lifting where you bring it down and then push it back up.

The Iron Bridge is also an awesome strength builder especially for the back of the body and the inner core of the spine. Get 2 chairs and place the very back of your head on one and the VERY end of the heels on the other, suspend your self like a bridge as straight and relaxed as you can.. don't be suprised you don't like longer then a few seconds, most people have no idea what kind of strength this requires.

Also get a 80-100lb punching bag and hold it up above your head as you walk the circle be very slow and relax, take the turning slowly.

Also if you can handle it learn a staff form, Bagua staff if possible, but any will do. Buy one of those 45lb weight bars, use that as the staff, you will of course do this only at a snail's pace and be very, very careful in the movements you make.

You will develop strength like no other...

I myself don't do gym weight lifting, however with the above mentioned methods I don't need too.

ANYONE can check with the Junior PowerLifting Association for meets for years 93-94(Kevin Wikse, in Salmon Idaho) and have verified by them that I deadlifted 485, squatted 565 and benchpressed 400 and I was when I was 16, I'm 23 now.
The equipment you need to simple and dirt cheap plus you can do it at home and save yourself from having to deal with cheesy meat heads in spandex and monthly fees at the local Gold's gym.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

TheBigToad
07-01-2001, 05:28 PM
Go out to a used sporting goods store and buy two 16lb shot puts (college level) or maybe buy 2 of the 8lb first. Then hold these as you run through circle walking, go slow and be as snakelike in your arm work and body as possible and do it for 30 min. You will use muscles you never felt before and develop all over body power in multiple angles and be to direct force on a must broader sense then with weight lifting where you bring it down and then push it back up.

The Iron Bridge is also an awesome strength builder especially for the back of the body and the inner core of the spine. Get 2 chairs and place the very back of your head on one and the VERY end of the heels on the other, suspend your self like a bridge as straight and relaxed as you can.. don't be suprised you don't like longer then a few seconds, most people have no idea what kind of strength this requires.

Also get a 80-100lb punching bag and hold it up above your head as you walk the circle be very slow and relax, take the turning slowly.

Also if you can handle it learn a staff form, Bagua staff if possible, but any will do. Buy one of those 45lb weight bars, use that as the staff, you will of course do this only at a snail's pace and be very, very careful in the movements you make.

You will develop strength like no other...

I myself don't do gym weight lifting, however with the above mentioned methods I don't need too.

ANYONE can check with the Junior PowerLifting Association for meets for years 93-94(Kevin Wikse, in Salmon Idaho) and have verified by them that I deadlifted 485, squatted 565 and benchpressed 400 and I was when I was 16, I'm 23 now.
The equipment you need is simple and dirt cheap plus you can do it at home and save yourself from having to deal with cheesy meat heads in spandex and monthly fees at the local Gold's gym.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

origenx
07-01-2001, 07:20 PM
kevin - u benched 400 when u were 16!!!? G-zus! How much did u weigh then (and now)? How tall were u? How much can u still bench?

TheBigToad
07-02-2001, 01:36 AM
Well, I was 16 I stood 6'2 and 298lb. Right now at 23 I'm 6'3 and I stay around 270lb I take my Yoga and light body training very seriously now and that helped slim me down some.

In traditional Chinese medicine I'm a near total Water energy person as well as having an Endomorphic bogy type, but with that comes a lot of body space I have to bend and twist and sink inside of myself. I can twist and bend a lot better then most people at much smaller body sizes.

My Bagua hero is Wang Shu Jing also a man of large size that was lighting quick.

Last time I put up the bar it was 405 that was maybe 5 months ago?

Funny here in the west people gwak with open mouth when they see me jump off tables in the park and land into ground rolling, but the chinese around here that know Bagua wouldn't take me seriously at all if I couldn't do that. Western thinking tends to limit personal potential by creating classes/abilites of people and expecting them to stay there or never to advance.

A favorite quote of mine comes from Summo Hung, when asked wow for a big round guy you can really can really move! how do you do it? Summo replies martial skill comes from finding your center and mine is just to big to miss.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

Crimson Phoenix
07-02-2001, 12:20 PM
In traditionnal Bagua, there is some weight lifting involved: you can practice all the eight palms while holding bricks...you do your bagua normally while clenching to the bricks...it can become a physical exercise, but if you practice correctly it'll rather help you form the body, structure the skeleton and find the good postures to elongate the joins while using as little muscular power as possible...it also naturally strenghtens your grip and finger muscles...it's very hard to do this while respecting bagua principles...
You can also hang heavy weights on your wrists and practice the palms...in China, they'd hang 10 or more kilograms on each wrist and practice :eek: