xingyi apps

[devere]

At what point in your Xingyi training did your teacher begin to really teach you how to fight, if at all? I'm not talking "grab opponent's writst with left and drill upwards with right" type of applications...but real hardcore fighting principles & strategies and how xingyi applies them. Did you learn right from the start? After 6 months? 3 years? I'm curious to hear everyone's input...thanks.

David

[Metal Fist]

My teacher started from day one showing apps.
It helped us get the idea of the movement faster.

"Do whatever it takes to be the last man standing!"

[wujidude]

Ahh,Grasshoppah . . . so impatient to learn how to maul others?

My Hebei-style xingyi teacher showed me how to do each move, as in physically perform it. Then I did it. Then he got opposite me and had me attack in a cooperative fashion, to demonstrate one or more simple applications. Then he attacked me cooperatively, so I could get the feel of doing the application. Then he had me drill relentlessly in the physical performance of each wuxing and animal form. Demonstrating applications did much to illustrate both how and why each form is executed the way it is.

My teacher holds off on actual sparring and tactical training until the student can credibly demonstrate flowing sequences of the wuxing and animal forms. The one thing I would've added to these prerequisites is for the students to show that they are in decent physical condition as well (people get sloppy when they get tired).

I think you still run into "traditional" teachers who maintain that xingyi's blows are so deadly that you can't allow sparring. In this "traditional" view, the two-person drills like An Shen Pao are it. Maybe there's something to that point of view. It's not a question I'm experienced enough to answer: does free-sparring have a place in xingyiquan? In the other "internal" Chinese martial arts? People like Mike Patterson think it does.

[karenfromatlanta]

My teacher said "Don't spar, you'll hurt each other. I know you will spar anyway, just like I did. Be careful."

I have injured two shoulders and bruised a guy's ribs in cooperative sparring where we were going faster than a move a second. Didn't mean to do it, these are my friends!

When Hsing I moves have become reflexes, you move as taught, and apply force as taught before you can think about it.

Opinion: you can test your reflexes and learn about 'fighting' through kickboxing where you can see people move, teach yourself to see openings, get used to distances and timing. There's one difficult thing I see, by observation and experience: you will be much closer in and more vulnerable than you ever imagine, to really fight.

Do lots of cooperative sparring with people of all sizes, practice combinations of the five fists, learn as many subtleties as possible. Your good training will get you through a fight.
Or at least the other guy is going to hurt a lot in the process.

[stephenchan]

I only see LTL when he comes into town for seminars, but when he's here, I am often the crash test dummy, so he shows applications on me all the time.

He is a big believer in sparring, and believes that if you can't apply your techniques in sparring, then it's pretty much useless. That being said, he isn't around enough to really coach us through stuff. The last time around, he had us gear up, and do some free sparring (the idea was to work pi & beng combinations). Sadly, most folks just started either kickboxing, or clinching and wrestling.

So, for LTL at least, the free fighting stuff kicks in pretty quick.

--
Stephen Chan