Shaolin's 18 Hands of Luohan

[Oso]

Shifu Kevin Brazier recently taught a seminar using this form.

I did some searching and found mention of it and curriculum listing it.

I was interested in hearing more history on the conception of this set and how it is veiwed in the Shaolin world.

With Kevin's permission here is the form's transcription as he posted it on this thread:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40633

Shaolin's 18 Hands of Luohan

1. Eagle Seizes the Gullet- Ying Tao Su- Supporting Hands- Tuo Shou
2. Carrying Basket Maneuver- Kua Lan Shi
3. Drawing the Bow- Ying Kai Gong
4. Support the Beam Fire Cannon- Jia Liang Pao
5. Dragon Descends from Heaven Hand- Jiang Long Shou
6. Monk Strikes the Bell – Seng Qiao Zhong
7. Cleverly Thread the Needle – Qiao Ren Jen
8. Single Rafter (Left and Right Side)- Yi Tiao Quan
9. Hanging Golden Hook- Jin Gou Gua
10. Seize and Wrap the Silk- Niu Chan Si
11. Rebel Sweeping Kick- Sao Dang Tui
12. Open Body Fist- Pi Shen Chui
13. Kicking Ball Maneuver- Ti Qiu Jiao
14. Mandarin Duck Kicks- Yuan Yang Jiao
15. Cleaving Firewood Maneuver- Pi Chai Shi
16. Monk Subdues Tiger- Seng Fu Hu
**Drawing the Bow- Ying Kai Gong
17. Oblique Luan Elbow- Ao Luan Zhou
**Monk Strikes the Bell- Seng Qiao Zhong
**Cleverly Thread the Needle- Qiao Ren Jen
18. Monk Pushes the Gate- Seng Tui Men
**Close Hands- Bi Shou

[Sal Canzonieri]

I am very intimate with this 19 Lohan form.

It has a long history, it is one of the best Shaolin forms.

It comes originally from the Wah Quan line, they developed it from Shaolin 18 Lohan and then Shaolin adopted it.
This was done back before the Yuan Dynasty.

It is a two person form.

It has many secret things in it.

For example: the first five moves are the Five Elements:
pi - metal, tsuan - water, beng - wood, pao - fire, and heng - earth.

It is has these 5 elements like Xing Yi and features many moves similar to the 10-12 animals also seen in Xing Yi.

I can teach you a lot about this form, I have been doing it for over 10 years.

Plumflower's site has the vcds of the form and the two person version.

The form is shown in the Shaolin Da Quan encyclopedia as Section #9 of the 18 Lohan forms (it is adopted by Shaolin but it is not originally part of the 8 section 18 Lohan forms).

[Shaolin Master]

The Huaquan two forms Babu lianhuan quan and luohan quan are actually not old at all. In fact they were created by Cai Longyun.

I learnt the form from a shixiong in 1986 and it was quite popular amongst Beijing wushu students in those days.

[NorthernShaolin]

Yes it is my understanding that it was created by Cai Longyun.

[Oso]

Hopefully K. Brazier will poke his head in here. I don't want to misquote him but he felt that both "Babu Lianhuan" and this set were not that old though I don't recall him saying who created them. He really emphasized the importance of this set for us.

I've been doing BBLH now for about a year and a half and I have enjoyed it and I'm really enjoying this set.

Thanks for the feedback.

[ngokfei]

I have see these two sets back in the 80's in book form. the most popular being the "Chinese Kung Fu Series #10, The Eighteen Arhat Methods of Shaolin Kung Fu by Cai Long Yun.

What I've heard in passing is that these two sets are part of a 3 set curriculumn put together in the early 80's. the other set being the Wu Bu Quan (5 Step Fist).

In my opinion they have a classical root but modified to fit todays market.

I've seen many of the discontinued "Duans" of contemporary Wushu which fit along these lines.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I know he says he created them but there are other sources that say that they come from an more ancient source.

There are various lineages that do this form in China from around henan province and they aren't from his, so what does that mean?

Also, I have old Shaolin manuals (I collect them and I have hundreds) that are from before 1986 and they have this form shown, so what does that mean.
They also include a 360+ move Wind Devil Staff form (also two person).

I do see that this 18 Lohan form is not at all like the 8 Section 18 Lohan form (regardless that the Shaolin Da Quan book has made it the 9th section). The 8 Section form is all open handed, no punches and is Ba Qua like.
This 18 Lohan is very Xing Yi like.

[Oso]

In my opinion they have a classical root but modified to fit todays market.

that was Kevin's gist.

I'll go ahead and say what he said and if I've misquoted him, he can correct me.

His thought was that they were created at the time of the first Chin Wu but the movements were older.

[Shaolin Master]

Sal,

Hmm...1986 is the year I learnt the form not the year of its inception.

It does seem that you collect things and that is nice, but unfortunately the form is definately not from the Yuan dynasty.

Grandmaster Cai Longyun's books were very popular and I am glad you like them so much.

The form was created (but so were all of them at some stage) and is realtively modern but that does not infer it is not valuable, in fact many schools all over china and abroad adopted the set as it is an excellent little form.

Kind Regards
Wu Chanlong

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal,

Hmm...1986 is the year I learnt the form not the year of its inception.

It does seem that you collect things and that is nice, but unfortunately the form is definately not from the Yuan dynasty.

Grandmaster Cai Longyun's books were very popular and I am glad you like them so much.

The form was created (but so were all of them at some stage) and is realtively modern but that does not infer it is not valuable, in fact many schools all over china and abroad adopted the set as it is an excellent little form.

Kind Regards
Wu Chanlong

Hmm, but there is an article in an old issue of Inside KF that shows this form being taught in NYC chinatown, it predates the year he is supposed to have created the form, so I don't know what is going on.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Regardless of who created it, the form has a lot of XY in it.

The first five moves are in essence:
Pi, Tsuan, Beng, Pao, and Heng.
Which is the pre-hebei Xing Yi order of the 5 elements.
Most people today have tsuan and beng switched around, this form does them
the original order.

Also, I can find all 10 of the XY animal movements/postures etc
in the form.

I even did the form one move at a time, without telling them what form it was, to a
XY class and asked them to name each move and they named all 10 animals,
so there is a lot of convergance in this form.

So, what does this all mean?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hmm, I meant no offense. I see you have removed your post?

I have been practicing / learning/ researching/ writing articles on Chinese Martial Art
since 1975.

I of course have learned how to do the form and other Shaolin Lohan forms with Shaolin Lohan theory and body mechanics.

Having also learned XY, tai ji, ba gua, Shuai Jiao, and various other CMA all these years, one can start to see movements that are similar in various forms between the styles, which often shows a style's roots in other older style.
My observation has been that with some body mechanic and so on adjustment
the movements in this 18 Lohan form converge with those of XY.

If one observes movements done from forms of various styles during self defense,
many moves intergrate into one.

Have you every used CMA for self defense? Well, I have. Many, many times.
Most people playing at CMA can't say that. Most people doing CMA can't even use it for self defense at all.
And when I have used it, quickly, efficiently, and effectively, I have realized that
the same move in essense can be done from various styles, the only thing different is the "jings" behind it.
The observer wouldn't know if I was doing a ba qua, Shaolin, or XY application because it would be over so fast.

[K.Brazier]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Master]The Huaquan two forms Babu lianhuan quan and luohan quan are actually not old at all. In fact they were created by Cai Longyun.

Hi,
That would not surprise me at all.
Maybe all the variations of this form in Taiwan come from some guy who learned it from a book.
Somwhere I have a book saying that Shaolin babu was part of old eagle claw. I forget the
book, I wiould have to dig it out of my stack.
Later a HK group published the form, siilar to the way i do it with some extra moves at the end.

But, there is one book, I think it is also Cai Longyun, which also includes Feng Mo one and 2 person staff.

I don't think you could learn that from the book. And yet that set is also in taiwan so who knows?


Kevin

[Sal Canzonieri]

ba bu quan I have also seen the same form as part of a tung pei lineage.

Well, these forms are supposed to created by Cai Longyun, I have read that many places.

But there is still the strange thing that there are examples of these forms that predate the year that he is said to have created the form.

No disrespect meant to Cai Longyun, just that it's a mystery.

[GeneChing]

It's amazing what you can find in the archives here sometimes... (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15992) Sadly, this isn't what I was looking for, but it'll sit well here.

[Sal Canzonieri]

It's amazing what you can find in the archives here sometimes... (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15992) Sadly, this isn't what I was looking for, but it'll sit well here.

Well, that 18 Lohan that you published is Road #1 of the 8 Road (or section, whatever you prefer) Shaolin 18 Lohan forms.
If you have the Shaolin Da Quan, then you can see the whole 8 Road form there,
also the all 8 have been published elsewhere as well, in the past 10 years or so.

[Oso]

Thanks, Gene. I tried a search but was probably too specific with my parameters.

[GeneChing]

Unfortunately, when we moved the forum some time ago, we had a little data crash that made the threads prior to the move inaccessible to the search engine. We tried to fix it but failed. So for some of the older posts, you got to go back the old fashioned way, by hand. However, therein lies a wonderous journey, because you often find other things of interest on the way. I was actually looking for the BSL 18 lyrics for this other post (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40970)when I found this one.

[taichi4eva]

Ngokfei wrote,

"What I've heard in passing is that these two sets are part of a 3 set curriculumn put together in the early 80's. the other set being the Wu Bu Quan (5 Step Fist)."

Was this curriculum supposed to be for contemporary Wushu or for some style like Huaquan?

Thanks

[yu shan]

My co-captain on the lion dance team is a Shaolin Shifu. He knows Babu lianhuan and Luohan quan. His lineage is is out of Hong Kong. I will hit him up on what he knows about these two forms. His senior student did 18 hands for me, just a little bit differant. They do not know the ling form to either though. Our two schools will be working together some over the summer, I look forward to showing them our ling side. I really like these two forms, basic but full of good punch kicks na and throws.