Who says judo throws don't work in the street?

[SevenStar]

there have been several discussions on this forum where people have said that shuai chiao style throwing is more effective because it focuses on throwing the person on his head. While this may be true, people have also said that judo throws would NOT work as well because you are throwing the person on their back.

We had a big fight outside the club, and while I wasn't the one who did it (I did throw a guy, but mounted him and held him in a kimura until someone with cuffs came), a guy was hit with an o soto gari which knocked him unconscious. his back hit the ground, and since he didn't know how to fall properly, his head bounced on the concrete.

That said, as stated before, I think that is why an ippon is awarded when you throw someone flat on their back - It assumes that had the person been untrained, the throw would like cause their head to bounce and disorient or KO them.

[lkfmdc]

I had a friend at NYU a long time ago, Chris Jurak will remember who, and he'd done a lot of different martial arts, with some well known people, I can't quote him directly, but basicly he said

"All the Sh-- is the same"

I've done Hapkido, Judo, Japanese Jujitsu, BJJ, Sambo, Shuai Jiao, Greco and Free Style with Randy and Matt Lindland and variations on catch, there is good grappling and that's it, period

Mark tripp said it's all "wrestling" but some with jackets and some without, and some with little jackets and some with big jackets

that is all...

[ShaolinTiger00]

"but I can't help but note the contrast that when someone posts a "cool judo clip" it's of Judo guys pulling of a sweet move in a competition, but when someone posts a Shui Chiao clip it's of a demo on a cooperating opponent."

"Shui Chiao is just one of a million folk wrestling styles with almost all the same moves found in arts all over the world. What's amazing is that by applying kung fu training methods to it the Chinese have managed to make it NOT WORK. How the hell do you make wrestling not work? It's wrestling for christ sake. Well never practice with a resisting opponent for one. Shui Chiao is a great piece of evidence of what happened to Kung Fu over the generations. Practical moves practiced with a don't hurt/resist/question/embarrass teacher method, stop being practical or even recognizable really fast."

"When I lived in China I studied Shui Chiao for about a week at two different schools because I thought the takedowns would complement my BJJ. The techniques are perfectly normal trips and throws, they are just trained in a way to insure you will never, ever be able to perform them against a resisting opponent. Hell, I still use some of the throws from Shui Chiao. But the same throws exist in Judo, they just know how to train them. I could lie around and do cooperative BJJ all day long and do guard forms in the air. CMA training methods can make even the best art unworkable in a very short period of time."

[Jun Fan]

If you lay a Judo throw on somebody who doesn't know how to fall on a surface that isn't designed for falling on it will rock their world.

Even if they do know how to take a fall it will put them in an idea postion to have their world rocked by a kick or punch.

[lkfmdc]

"but I can't help but note the contrast that when someone posts a "cool judo clip" it's of Judo guys pulling of a sweet move in a competition, but when someone posts a Shui Chiao clip it's of a demo on a cooperating opponent."

"Shui Chiao is just one of a million folk wrestling styles with almost all the same moves found in arts all over the world. What's amazing is that by applying kung fu training methods to it the Chinese have managed to make it NOT WORK. How the hell do you make wrestling not work? It's wrestling for christ sake. Well never practice with a resisting opponent for one. Shui Chiao is a great piece of evidence of what happened to Kung Fu over the generations. Practical moves practiced with a don't hurt/resist/question/embarrass teacher method, stop being practical or even recognizable really fast."

"When I lived in China I studied Shui Chiao for about a week at two different schools because I thought the takedowns would complement my BJJ. The techniques are perfectly normal trips and throws, they are just trained in a way to insure you will never, ever be able to perform them against a resisting opponent. Hell, I still use some of the throws from Shui Chiao. But the same throws exist in Judo, they just know how to train them. I could lie around and do cooperative BJJ all day long and do guard forms in the air. CMA training methods can make even the best art unworkable in a very short period of time."

where are these quotes from?

[shuaichiao]

"but I can't help but note the contrast that when someone posts a "cool judo clip" it's of Judo guys pulling of a sweet move in a competition, but when someone posts a Shui Chiao clip it's of a demo on a cooperating opponent."

"Shui Chiao is just one of a million folk wrestling styles with almost all the same moves found in arts all over the world. What's amazing is that by applying kung fu training methods to it the Chinese have managed to make it NOT WORK. How the hell do you make wrestling not work? It's wrestling for christ sake. Well never practice with a resisting opponent for one. Shui Chiao is a great piece of evidence of what happened to Kung Fu over the generations. Practical moves practiced with a don't hurt/resist/question/embarrass teacher method, stop being practical or even recognizable really fast."

"When I lived in China I studied Shui Chiao for about a week at two different schools because I thought the takedowns would complement my BJJ. The techniques are perfectly normal trips and throws, they are just trained in a way to insure you will never, ever be able to perform them against a resisting opponent. Hell, I still use some of the throws from Shui Chiao. But the same throws exist in Judo, they just know how to train them. I could lie around and do cooperative BJJ all day long and do guard forms in the air. CMA training methods can make even the best art unworkable in a very short period of time."


That's funny my shaui chiao always worked for me in all the street fights I've ever had, it's always helped me do well in san shou/ kou shou fighting, and I held my own in both judo clubs I've trained at with high level belts right from day one. Was that a real opinion or just a lame attempt at trolling?

Oh and by the way, shuai chiao has plenty of live practise and competitions and judo and ju jitsu have certain techniques they only drill that aren't allowed in randori or competition. The only real differences are that shaui chiao doesn't rely on the jacket as much and judo guys intentionaly turn there opponants onto thier backs where as shuai chiao turns them upside down and lets them drop. If they know how to twist and take a fall good for them, if not OUCH!!!:D

[David Jamieson]

if judo-hobo has taught us anything, it's that judo is on the street.

where have you guys been anyway?

[Oso]

#1567th training model vs. style thread.

shame on you Seven. ;)

[SevenStar]

hehe. yeah, well.... It was a beautiful o soto, so I figured what better way to post about it?

[Hieronim]

judo throws wont really work cause you cant grab onto any clothing, sure some may but not against a muchlarger and heavier opponent even with judo gis its msotly a style against people your weight and size, and on the beach forget about it.

[Oso]

judo throws wont really work cause you cant grab onto any clothing, sure some may but not against a muchlarger and heavier opponent even with judo gis its msotly a style against people your weight and size, and on the beach forget about it.

:rolleyes:

[Wood Dragon]

judo throws wont really work cause you cant grab onto any clothing, sure some may but not against a muchlarger and heavier opponent even with judo gis its msotly a style against people your weight and size, and on the beach forget about it.


Well, that pretty much flies in the face of decades of collective experience.


Many folks argue one way or the other over Judos effectiveness with regard to other systems, but I don't think I can recall someone saying it flat out doesnt work....

[David Jamieson]

judo is a lovely kind of violence

heirwhatisname talks from his anus.

[Merryprankster]

A couple of nights ago, I planted one of my training partners on his back with a pretty big, over the back grip Harai Goshi.

I tried to land nice, but it didn't happen. I landed right on top of him. He landed flat on his back.

He has two black eyes to show for it.

I shudder to think what would have happened had it been some other surface than a mat.

Hieronim is stupid, inexperienced, or both.