Yaing Main Speed Video Clip. Is This Real ???

[FANWOO]

this guy claims to have developed a special way to have super speed,and still retain power. could someone please view the ddownloads,and please give input on this ? if i tried to snap my arms the way he does, i think my hand would snap off at the wrist and fly across the room. here is the link.

http://www.invisiblemaster.com/Downloads.php

[Yum Cha]

I've seen speed like that a number of times. Power is the question. In the first and third video, he pulls his punches in the demos as you would expect, so, you don't really know what kind of power he's capable of.

You'll see speed like that in some southern styles done properly, but not from beginners.

The second video with the "iron body" punching training looks a bit hokey, doesn't look like much power to me, but then again, how much would you want to use in training? Fair enough. Interesting exercises.

Training for speed like that really needs to be done with power delivery for best results. Either hitting a heavy bag, or armoured opponent.

The bag work shows a bit more power, I wonder what it is filled with? They seem to wind up into their combinations, and wind down.

Good targetting would make their stuff more effective than bashing away. The way they hit the moving bag shows some good skill in targetting, but they miss too and you can see the vulnerabilities at that time.

Overall, it looks to me like they have some juice, something groovy going on.

[SifuAbel]

One can have speed and power. The only thing that doesn't feel right is that you have to practice this speed with a partner that is going to interupt your flow. You have be able to continue on the fly.

[Yum Cha]

something else to consider...

The relationship between speed and power.

From Wikipedia....

>>>"Kenetic energy equals 1/2 of Mass times velocity Squared.

Thus, the kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed. This means for example that if you are traveling twice as fast, you need to lose four times as much energy to stop."<<<

You could also say, if your punch if twice as fast, it produces 4 times as much energy.

Power in speed looks different than big, heavy punches.

So, if a 16 ounce glove slows down your speed by half, yet increases the total mass by 16 ounces, what is that doing to the kenetic energy released into an object?

Or, if you are releasing a given amount of kenetic energy into a target, and you hit it with a broad fist face, or alternatively with two striking knuckles, or alternatively with a single phoenix eye fist....

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I like it. There is some definate value in practicing speed like that. I see that the question of power has come up; sometimes, if you have only a little bit of power, but that much speed, you can still be succesful.

I think that, as best we can, all practitioners should work on speed, power, proper form and endurance - individually and together as a unit.

[SanHeChuan]

what makes you think you have to sacrifice power for speed? The slow contracting pull that you use when lifting wieghts is not power. Flexing your muscle does not equal power. Tension does not equal power. Some techniques require tension at the moment of impact to prevent colapse, but sometimes correct bone alignment is all you need. Lifting can increase mass which will increase power, and it can increase explosiveness if done right. Didn't Newton say, force = mass X speed.

I like the vids, I think that some of the demostrators looked a little too loose in some of their movements. You don't want to just flail around uncontrolled as you might hurt your self. Hyperextend an elbow, or lose a wrist. ;) Your techniques should still travel the same controlled path that you were taught, for them to be correct.

I had heard the stone at the end of a rope metaphore before, but I think something more elastic like bungee fits better. Nice addaption of old chinese wisdom.

[truewrestler]

Can someone please post a video of someone fighting in this fashion while sparring/fighting. Thanks

[Yum Cha]

Sure True Wrestler, no problem....






Wanna see it again?

[bigdoing]

1/2 mass times velocity squared....however we can all see in the speed produced by these demonstrations, the mass behind the "punch" is not nearly equal to the mass that would be there if body connection were present....

...I think most people could flail there arms around quite fast, but in order to get the kinetic energy to be substaintial you have to have a connection or root, other wise it is fast but disconnected and thus the mass is not really enough to do any significant damage.

just a thought.

[IronFist]

That's why I don't leave my arm extended after a punch.

[Yum Cha]

I think Able and Lama Pie both alluded to the real issue. Structure.

Speed without structure and the power is lost, disipated. Speed with structure, or root as bigdoing said, is what makes the difference, that and the focus of force.

In the first video of the demonstraton, the instructor uses some barges, some shoulder charges of sorts to finish. You can see that he is putting a reasonable amount of mass into a short bump of an attack. To me that indicates an ability to root and anchor.

Speed and footwork are a match made in heaven.

[IronFist]

I just watched some more vids.

Sensitivity training is good and all, but I've been told that trapping range and stuff where that would come into play doesn't exist in "real" fighting. You never see it in NHB, and it's been my experience in submission fighting classes that this is the case, too. It seems like the trapping range where sensitivity training would come into play only exists if both fighters want it to and approach the fight with that mindset. For example, with two WC guys, you might see it. With a WC guy and a kick boxer, you'd probably see the WC guy try to trap unsuccessfully. With two boxers, you wouldn't see it. You might be a little more likely to see it if one of the fighers left their arm extended after a punch. It really is a cool concept, and it's interesting to watch; it's just too bad it doesn't really come into play in real fighting.

Having a car drive over you is good and all, but can I kick you without you taking damage?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I understand your point.


IronFist writes;


Sensitivity training is good and all, but I've been told that trapping range and stuff where that would come into play doesn't exist in "real" fighting. You never see it in NHB, and it's been my experience in submission fighting classes that this is the case, too. It seems like the trapping range where sensitivity training would come into play only exists if both fighters want it to and approach the fight with that mindset. For example, with two WC guys, you might see it. With a WC guy and a kick boxer, you'd probably see the WC guy try to trap unsuccessfully. With two boxers, you wouldn't see it. You might be a little more likely to see it if one of the fighers left their arm extended after a punch. It really is a cool concept, and it's interesting to watch; it's just too bad it doesn't really come into play in real fighting.

However; techniques, which would be most effective in trapping range aren't seen in NHB for certain reasons. Here are a few;

1. No striking to the eyes. Finger strikes aren't really very effective anywhere else. When you take them out of the game, there is not as much inscentive to get close (trapping range). Finger strikes to the eyes (or strikes and claws/grabs to the throat) are primary targets of people who fight in trapping range. You've just taken away 70% of all thier attacks by making them fight NHB rules.

2. Gloves, of any kind, limit your sensitivity. A person who can trap or fight in close, is handicapped to a large degree by gloves. Wrist sensitivity is practically non-existant with even the UFC style gloves. Plus, the gloves neutralize the power on short strikes. Personally, I can hit very hard from just a few inches away. When I put the gloves on, my strikes have much much less of an impact on my target. The gloves cussion the sharpness of your knuckles and the (knife) edge of your hand/palm.

I'm not making excuses for people who trap or practice sensitivity drills. I'm just referring to the comment about UFC or NHB style fighting.

NHB is not actually no holes barred. Like all these competitions, there are rules with do's and don't's. If I had to fight a much larger opponent or even one of equal size and strength, I would look to neutralize them with strikes/kicks to the three main targets; Eyes, Throat, Groin. All of these are "Barred" from NHB Fighting.

I'm not taking away from any of these fighters either. I respect their skills, their courage to brave the cage/ring and their tenacity (well, some of them). I certainly do not train for those type of fights, but I do recpect those who do.

And getting back to the speed thing...I do think these guys have the right idea. Once I started teaching professionally, my Sifu shared many training drills with me that helped to produce light/quick strikes that did not sacrifice any power. Some of the stuff I learned was very similiar to what I have seen on these videos.

This guys is on the right track and It's obvious that his strikes do indeed have power.

[hung-le]

ooooh

master class Beee aaaa itch slapping !

were do I sign up?


behold.....the power of the pimp slap!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

ooooh

master class Beee aaaa itch slapping !

were do I sign up?


behold.....the power of the pimp slap!

This is exactly what is wrong with these forums. As soon as an intelligent discussion takes place,..some 'tard has to stick his two cents in. Deplorable....

[hung-le]

This is exactly what is wrong with these forums. As soon as an intelligent discussion takes place,..some 'tard has to stick his two cents in. Deplorable....



Behold........calling a spade a spade!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Right....

Hung-Le: Another anonymous player on the forum. Soon, the sh1t-slinging will commence, along with the slander.

No style, No Name, No Location: But I assume I'll be told how I will get my a$$ kicked by him and he'll invite me to fight him wherever he lives; (like I'm taking a plane somewhere to meet anyone to fight).

Again, this is what is wrong with these forums. :( :( :(

[CLFLPstudent]

Can't even send him a PM....

Interesting.


-David

[bigdoing]

trapping is best used on belligerent drunks and intoxicated people whos reflex times are slowed down.....or at least thats the most entertaining for me.

[hung-le]

Right....

Hung-Le: Another anonymous player on the forum. Soon, the sh1t-slinging will commence, along with the slander.

No style, No Name, No Location: But I assume I'll be told how I will get my a$$ kicked by him and he'll invite me to fight him wherever he lives; (like I'm taking a plane somewhere to meet anyone to fight).

Again, this is what is wrong with these forums. :( :( :(


whoa!

you should take some advise ...or you will pop that little pin head of yours ......may I sugjest you quit taking roids ...at least for a little while....maybe quite masterbating to UFC reruns too..... :)

You will feel a lot better in the long run (not that I speak from experience....lol....)

Anonymous player ???? hmmm....... I've been Spontaneously posting here for years and years under one name or another. Way before the likes of you......

No style, No Name, No Location: yea that's right "THIS IS THE INTERNET" I don't care ...

rememeber......INTERNET!

I'll make fun of anything...If you don't like it tuff

Why would I tell you that I'd kick you're a$$ or invite you to fight me????

THIS IS THE INTERNET......

If I was serious about my art (which I am not....I'd be way to buisy to care what you think or I hardly would feel the need to pump up my ego up with lame internet bravado)

Same goes for you ....You too would be way to buisy training to bantering meaningless words with someone who doesn't care (such as the likes of me )


Now stop typing a retort………… because its only a waste of time, (specially replying to my words…..) You will be more productive actually training, instead of fantasizing with your Internet butt buddies…trying to convince each other how knowledgeable or how bad azz you all think you are...

I can think of a lot better things to do than get worked up about words on the internet..


But hey…that’s why I like comming here..... screwing with guys like you…. this news group was long ago polluted, I like mucky up the water so everyone can see the scat that's actually being thrown about............

[jethro]

don't post anymore cause nobody is gonna check this thing or anything else you wanna post, pick as different name, come in as a new person, let people send you messages instead of you responding what you want to respond to. But I guarantee I will recognize once you open that stupidas s mouth of your's:D

[fiercest tiger]

Yum Cha

I disagree about rooting and the speed factor, i think rooting is great for push hands, wrestling, but for striking i prefer to be loose and mobile. When i spar or fight my arms and legs are moving constantly not stuck looking for root or grounding. Boxing has big and harder strikers most times then martial artist and they are relaxed and lift the rear foot. So to me rooting can be with the mind and being relaxed your weight will sink when the body relaxes. Stances can actually hinder alot of your striking abilities IMHO.

I know 3 people from Yangs mian, they dont train form, but they train base power to begin with and work up on other skills, elbows, legs skills etc. I can say they can flow without form very well and to me that is a higher level then taught form caus eyou gotta respond and be natural and how your body moves.

Garry

[Golden Arms]

Ironfist: the trapping range does exist, its called before and during the clinch. I use trapping all the time in this range, sometimes it looks like it does in drills, sometimes its to break off or hit a person that is trying to clinch me, sometimes its to set a persons body up for a takedown. That being said, it took probably four or five years of working out full speed to get to where that stuff comes out, so I am not surprised you dont see it much. That is the thing though, many concepts in CMA dont necessarily manifest quickly, but they do come into play the longer you work them, and whether you want that tool to exist or not, doesnt change whether it does.

Fiercest: What are your thoughts on rooting just taking place through your natural looser alignment as you move? Stances to me are not frozen platforms to fire from, but more ways of moving and power delivery. What do you think?

[splinter]

After reading a few of the posts on this thread, I was a little curious about the actual physics involved in throwing a powerful punch (as I'd never seen a PROPER scientific explanation for it).

Found this article, which does a pretty good job describing the relationship between a rooted stance, the speed of the fist, and how that translates into damage delivered to the opponent.

http://tkdtutor.com/06Theory/Power/PowerPhysics.htm

[Yum Cha]

Splinter, thanks for the link, interesting. The flash movie attached was elementery, but had its interesting points, and a few laughs...

FT,
How ya doing buddy. Look at the master boxer of our lifetime, Ali. Fastest hands any heavyweight has ever had. Best footwork too. They always said he lacked a heavy knockout punch, at least until he destroyed Liston, and a number of others shortly thereafter. Danced like a butterfly, stung like a bee. Watch the videos in slo-mo, you'll see him drop to a flat footed root when he's power hitting to the body, standing toe to toe.

Sure, he had a bag of tricks, like off balance counter-punching to escape, and big over-reaching hits too, but Ali understood the value of flat footed, rooted hits.

Tyson, he liked to drop low than pounce up throwing it all into a killer smash, often on his tiptoes, but if he missed, he had to re-load...

Also, I think it needs to be re-said, as Golden arms said, rooting is not a concrete platform, frozen in place, it is a single second in time aligned with a perfect structure, that disappears as soon as it forms. It is as fluid as it is solid.

Are there any of those Yangs Mian guys here in Sydney?

[splinter]

LOL. I didn't even see the that flash thing until you pointed it out. The beginning's a little hokey, but there's some good content in the rest of it.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


Also, I think it needs to be re-said, as Golden arms said, rooting is not a concrete platform, frozen in place, it is a single second in time aligned with a perfect structure, that disappears as soon as it forms. It is as fluid as it is solid Nicely described.. and, if your timing is good you can develop a sort of stomp that sends an additional shockwave rippling into the punch.. i tend to drop my rear heel with the force of of that leg and the concussion of the impact transferring through my (sometimes) well aligned structure to explode with the connecting punch.. a difficult but effective technique..

Be well..

[hung-le]

don't post anymore cause nobody is gonna check this thing or anything else you wanna post, pick as different name, come in as a new person, let people send you messages instead of you responding what you want to respond to. But I guarantee I will recognize once you open that stupidas s mouth of your's:D







"Don't post here anymore..... Sniffle...snob...snort.....

Someone get the boy a tissue.... he's upset that someone here actually doesn't take this news group seriously

......ohhhh the tragedy.......ohhhhh the tragedy


Like I’ve said before (many times…) If you…………… or anybody else were half as skilled in martial arts as you think you are….you certainly wouldn’t be posting here on this silly news group….


Don’t post here anymore…….why? you...the internent police? lol

Why pic a different name........why? (You don't get it do you?_ I don't care....

Take an example from everyone else who's posted after me......Ignore my words.....they are meaningless ...because its the internent! stupid!

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Yummy,

Hows it going big fella? I agree, there are times to use the foot flat and its in close range near the clinch or body punches IMHO. I also feel i am more looser and stronger when i am natural (feet off or planted its intergrated at times).

All im worried about is hitting fast and alot, keeping my balance i dont care for rooting when striking only when wrestling and chi kung.

Golden arms,

What u said i agree with, i just feel that alot of the theories of kung fu stance work regarding power has been translated wrongly and or miss interpreted at time. Before everyone starts FT bashing think about things when the sh!t goes down you move fast and continous and mostly doesnt resemble any of the stance work you do. What you do is more natural like walking there is no other unnatural way to walk in stances then walking the horse, and front stances etc. The way i use my rooting or i call gounding is when i do chi kung and wrestling when we are in a clinch or head wrestling and i wanna level drop i drop my stances lower. If im striking i stand naturally i dont need to drop any lower then my small body is against a taller guy, as well doing bak mei body postures also can lower you even more which i do not want. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

Regards
Garry

[fiercest tiger]

Just read some of Tao of JKD and even bruce Lee says the "Rear heel is the piston of the whole body machine." He talks of striking faster and mobilty is better when the rear heel is lifted. But does talk about planting the rear heel when absorbing a strike, similar to what i said about wrestling using the opponents energy for pushing and pulling, turning.

Hope that was some use to you?

There was alot more but that kind of somed it up.

regards
Garry