View Full Version : Coaching Style
I can't believe there isn't a thread about the new UF3 with Ortiz and Shamrock as coaches.
I think it's going to be funny...but also think that they are trending towards WWF style BS in pitting these two against each other. Sure, the marketing may work but I still think they could run this show succesfully w/o a bunch of crap like is going to happen.
Anyways...
One thing that struck me was the minor focus on the different coaching styles:
Ortiz = hands on, getting on the mat with the guys.
Shamrock = more removed, observing from the outside.
I think both are valid and that a good coach needs to use both strategies. In the case of coaches of more advanced years (who at least HAVE been there and done that) the junior coaches do the hands on and the senior coach, who may not be able to hang conditioning wise with the youngsters, is on the outside.
??????
jethro
04-11-2006, 08:27 PM
The reality part of the show is tough for me to watch. The last few months I have been tivoing every single episode that's on, but I can only watch the fights:D
Definitlely the best show on tv, other than the office:p
MasterKiller
04-12-2006, 06:14 AM
Shamrock didn't bring in a Ju-Jitsu coach. Instead, he brought his nutrional/strength coach.
Worst decision ever.
yea, it's so short a run that I don't think nutrition and/or strength development is an issue.
that boxer didn't stand a chance.
yenhoi
04-12-2006, 08:22 AM
The show part and the fight part of almost every show (all three seasons now) have sucked.
It sucks that it is on so late and you have to watch through all the junk, just to get to more junk.
...as long as they live in the same house and follow the whole "reality" show formula nonsense, its all we will get, more nonsense.
I was happy about them getting rid of the team challenge bs, but that was clouded by the new coach drama bs.
Didnt/dont expect much more.
Shaolinlueb
04-12-2006, 10:07 AM
they need JJ coach. their stand up skills all pretty much such.
ok...wtf is Shamrock doing? lousy coaching unless the whole thing is being staged...which it may be. Last nights 'scuffle' certainly was. I wouldn't think they would mess with the teams training though.
BruceSteveRoy
05-05-2006, 06:56 AM
dude i can't believe the guy with the bad teeth lost. the way he ran his mouth i just assumed he could back it up.
what i would be interested in seeing is an episode at the end of the season that was just the guys watching the season so we can see their reactions to all the behind the scenes stuff. like the guy with the red hair that is supposed to be a great fighter and he was running his mouth about ortiz saying how he can't believe ortiz didn't pick him and how he is the best there and yadda yadda. i just want to see when he sees the episode where ortiz admits he made a mistake and didn't recognize him during the tryouts. or when they all see how the "team dagger" guys were tipping each other off and stuff. i dunno i think that would be interesting. plus can you imagine shamrock's reaction to the way the team actually talks about his leadership style?
David Jamieson
05-05-2006, 06:57 AM
they're all a bunch of rubes imo.
The real reason for it all is to line dana's pockets with the green.
period.
not much quality there otherwise.
Kind of like watching ET or some other lameass celebrity profile show that begins with "Here's Colin Farrell fresh out of rehab and looking hot"
lol
I wasn't sure where that fight was going to go.
Soloman was trash talking for sure but seemed to be much more confident where the other guy was definitely doubting himself. While Ortiz apparently coached his fighter into looking for the head kick, I can't believe it stunned Soloman as much as it apparently did.
"Team Dagger" is some childish, moronic crap.
DJ, yea, it's definitely about the money but I initially felt the training insight and fights were worth the rest of the crap. Now I'm wondering how much the fights are being set up to go a particular way.
BruceSteveRoy
05-05-2006, 07:55 AM
i agree about the "team dagger" comment oso. i am so glad Soloman lost just so i don't have to hear about that stuff anymore. it sounds like something i might have come up with or thought was cool on the play ground in 3rd grade.
i am not really into MMA or UFC or reality tv but for some reason i find myself watching the show every week. yeah that guy is making a lot of money on this show. the truth is this show is like one really long advertisement for the pay per view fight between ortiz and shamrock that will be coming up after the season ends. from a marketing stand point its pretty smart.
yep, smart. If the reality show part was cut out and we got more of a documentary style look at the training and the elimination fights it would be an awesome show.
but, they are not trying to really sell to the martial arts demographic...we're going to probably still buy PPV when we want to see a particular fight, I know I'm going to get the Gracie vs. Hughes fight...but rather are trying to get more of the redneck demographic that Spike TV is catering to.
I used to not like Ortiz but I'm changing my mind. I still don't like trashtalkers but his training is dead on and he's a good coach, IMO.
BruceSteveRoy
05-05-2006, 08:29 AM
ortiz does surprise me actually. i expected him to be a lot more of a jerk. his training is really good and he knows how to motivate his ppl which is just as important as getting them in top shape. especially when you consider how much of a fight is determined by your mentality. but anyway the day before the last UFC PPV i got a look at a day in the life of andrei arlovski (or however you spell it) and his workout is insane. spike tv did an all access kind of show about him. he wakes up at the crack of dawn and runs a few miles, then he hits the gym for his boxing training and jump rope and speed and heavy bags, etc. then he does more conditioning excercises, does his errands, then goes to jiu jitsu training. i mean i know he is a professional fighter and has to treat his training like a full time job (which it is) but i just never really thought about how much actually goes in to it. and he does it 6 days a week. i think it would be intersting to see him coach a season.
Ortiz can certainly goad people well. I'm really guessing all that last night was staged though.
hey, just noticed the Tai Yim bit....some of your Lion Dancers were down this way a couple of weeks back. was in a rush so didn't have time to introduce myself or talk to them. they were doing a performance at UNC-Asheville.
BruceSteveRoy
05-05-2006, 10:08 AM
yeah it seemed too orchestrated. its almost like they intentionally got the two guys that hate each other and told them not to fight or argue or whatever. they both agreed and stuck to it and then the producers went hey wait a minute we didn't think they would actually do it. then told them to start something so they could boost the tension and make the ppv fight worth the 40 bucks they charge for it. or something like that.
yeah our lion dancers are fun to watch. but the dragon dance is AMAZING. i had never seen one done before coming to this school. its crazy. i will say one of the best lion dance teams i have ever seen is sifu Raymond Wong's jow ga school in DC. they are really good.
I've seen Wong's perform, too. They are very good.
Regarding last nights fights, I've gotta agree with those who are glad Solomon lost. The guy was a complete pr!ck.
All in all, it was pretty funny when Solomon asked "what happened," and then when Shamrock told him the fight was over, he asked "Who won?" I thought for sure after round 1 he had the fight in the bag. Shows what I know.
To the extent that the show is being edited to magnify trash talking to add drama to the fights, I guess that's the nature of the business. Not much different than the way rivalries are staged for boxing matches and Pride fights.
neilhytholt
05-05-2006, 01:16 PM
Just can't believe how bad Shamrock's coaching is, and how good Ortiz's is ... it's like night and day.
When the thing first started it seemed for sure that Shamrock'd win because it seemed like he got the better talent. Like the gap-toothed guy had a 7-0 record and the other guy like 9-5 or something.
But Shamrock's training just SUCKS. Ortiz's guys are getting better while Shamrock's are getting worse and hurting.
But I was really wrong about the British dude ... let's see what the wrestler guy they give all the attention to can do.
Waidan
05-05-2006, 01:28 PM
I think last night's fight was the first in which the coaching was the deciding factor. Solomon was clearly the more confident of the two fighters, and much more aggressive. But he gassed himself out after 5 minutes, mostly spent in a dominant position. All Rory did was wait out the storm, and then deliver a mediocre head kick for the win.
I have no doubt if Solomon had been pounding the cardio training with Team Ortiz while Rory was out hitting golf balls with Shamrock and his weightlifter buddy, the outcome of the fight would have been reversed.
Also, regarding the Shamrock/Ortiz scuffle, Shamrock said in an interview afterwards that he was just starting sh!t to get his guys fired up. He never had any intention of actually throwing blows, and Tito (by far the smarter of the two) knew it the whole time.
Just can't believe how bad Shamrock's coaching is, and how good Ortiz's is ... it's like night and day.
When the thing first started it seemed for sure that Shamrock'd win because it seemed like he got the better talent. Like the gap-toothed guy had a 7-0 record and the other guy like 9-5 or something.
But Shamrock's training just SUCKS. Ortiz's guys are getting better while Shamrock's are getting worse and hurting.
Yeah, I guess good fighters don't always make good trainers. Or maybe Ortiz's style of training is more adaptable to making a difference even in the short term. Shamrock's intensity of training probably works okay when you have months instead of days to work with guys, so they have time to recover from all those training-induced injuries.
Still, Ortiz definitely works smarter, and if I had to choose a trainer based on what I've seen on the show, the decision would be a pretty easy one.
Conditioning is 50% of any fight
;)
Chief Fox
05-06-2006, 07:23 AM
I must admit that I've alway thought that Shamrock was the man and that Tito was some kind of died hair Pilsbury Dough Boy. I haven't caught the whole season but that opinion has now changed.
I now think that Shamrock is a great fighter that got where he is by working extremely hard and Tito is a great fighter who has gotten where he is by working smarter. Tito has really earned my respect.
The difference is night and day between the coaching styles. Tito has his boys totaly relaxed and thinking, Shamrock has his boys all fired up, so much they are unable to think.
That jab head kick was just plain great coaching by Tito.
It looked as if even Dana thought the scuffle was stupid.
As far as the whole show goes, it's a reality TV show. That really says it all. But there are little golden nuggets in there sometimes. Tito's coaching ability has been one of them.
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