Iron Palm Table

[nifoc]

Recently my Sifu offered to teach me the iron palm, he required however that i get a proper iron palm table. As these are rather expensive, and I am a student. I thought I'd build one myself, but I'm having trouble finding any good drawings.

Does anyone have any...or even proper blueprints perhaps?

[Dale Dugas]

He learn his iron palm from a book or video? Are you of the Wing Lam lineage. If so then you use the table. If not, you do not need that special table unless you are going to be doing the pushing pulling Tiger style Iron Palm. Just put your bags on some concrete blocks and your golden.

[Emeraldphoenix]

6 concrete blocks and 2 caps. Stack by 2's on their side and caps on top. Almost perfect match.

[nifoc]

Yes, I am of the Wing Lam lineage. And no, my sifu has not learnt from books or video.

[Dale Dugas]

If you are of Wing Lams' lineage, why not contact him and ask him for a photo or drawing. Seems a little fishy that they would want to charge you a lot of money for something that should be cheaper for those in the gate students of your Si Gung.

[Dale Dugas]

Yes, I am of the Wing Lam lineage. And no, my sifu has not learnt from books or video.


Wing Lam Schools
SWITZERLAND
Sifu Bernard Frutiger
Mailing Address
Thunstrasse 8, 3628 Uttigen, Switzerland
Telephone: 0041 (33) 823-4568 Fax: 0041 (79) 311-1761
EMAIL: b.frutiger@tcnet.ch

Wing Lam Kung Fu Argentina
Pablo Gabriel Caceres
España 691, Rafaela Santa Fe 2300, Argentina
Phone: +54.3492.502.691
Contact:
Pablo Alegria Caceres - gabrielcaceres74@yahoo.com.ar
Mariana Basso de Cáceres - mbasso72@yahoo.com

BERMUDA
Sifu David Simons
Mailing Address
166 Middle Road, Devonshire, Bermuda FL02
Telephone: (441) 236-6792 Fax: (441) 232-1204
EMAIL: asimons@ibl.com

OHIO
Sifu John Ervin
Garfield Heights School
4835 Turney Rd., Garfield Heights, OH 44125
Telephone: (216) 341-1515

Cleveland School
5100 St. Clair Ave., Cleveland, OH 44103
Telephone: (216) 431-4991
www.shaolininstitute.com
Affiliated Schools
Shaolin Boxing Methods
Teacher: Steve Kleppe
202 Travis Lane, Waukesha, WI 53189
Telephone: (262) 548-8824
Email: info@shaolinboxingmethods.com
www.shaolinboxingmethods.com

Ling Nam Siu Lum Kung Fu Academy
Sifu: Michael Manganiello
2570 Hempstead Turnpike
East Meadow, NY 11554
516-796-1008
http://www.lingnamsiulum.com

SEATTLE
Sifu Robert Daniels
8317 160th Ave N.E.
Redmond, WA 98052
(206) 714-0130
Website www.winglamseattle.com
Email sifudaniels@hotmail.com


Which school do you train at?

[TenTigers]

ok, I want you to realize that I am saying this with all honesty, so although it may sound sarcastic, I am being truthful.
The design is quite simple. If by looking at your Sifu's table, or a picture of it, you canot figure out how to draw up plans and build your own, your woodworking skills are not good enough to build it. You would be better off ordering it. In the long run, you will have a much better product, and you will probably spend close to the same amount. Do you see my point?

[nifoc]

Dont worry about it...I got good enough pictures from my sifu. He lives about 400km from me, so I don't meet him more than say, six times a year. I have to build a table 'til next time I go up there, so that I can continue to practice when I go home again.

And my Sigung is Curtis Kautzmann, who I believe has trained extensively with Wing Lam.

Thanks for the input though

[David Jamieson]

See, this is the whole problem with lineage name dropping and other such rot.

lol.

Build the table as per the directions, do the exercises as per instructed, see if you get results and benefits and that's all there is to it.

If you are going to do the WL table top tiger palm stuff, then do it.

If you're gonna kick it oldschool with the canvas bags on a concrete pillar, then get instructions and do that.

I get flustered with all this name dropping of kungfu teachers and such.

Who gives a sh1t?! It is not even a single measure of what you have and it is denegrated everytime you have to hide behind your daddies leg. (that's directed at no one and is directly referencing incessant lineage name dropping in anonymous settings.)

Now before everyone starts getting on this guy because he studies with Kautzmann, just give that some consideration.

Thanks

[hasayfu]

must resist flame.......

DJ, I don't think nifoc name dropped. He was asked who is sifu was so people could help him out better.

Nifoc, if you haven't done the Northern Shaolin iron palm I suggest you start there and not worry about the tiger iron palm. As folks have stated, it doesn't require a special table and trains the basics first. It will directly apply to the tiger iron palm when you are ready.

Building one shouldn't be that hard. Especially if you are beginning you don't need the elevation control. Just get some 2x4s on a strong table and have it fit the bag base. I recommend you buy the bag from WLE since they are made to withstand the pounding.

I'll be nice about CK but I believe he has corrected the misconception that he was ever a student of Wing Lam.

Whew, that was tough ;)

[Mantis Fist]

Train at your own risk. I do not recommend training for those under 16 years of age.

Materials Needed:
-10" wide x 24" long (or larger) canvas bag
-approx. 1" round river rocks (enough to fill the bag half way)
-old towel
-cinder blocks (support stand)

The method is as follows:

Set up the cinder blocks so that you can sit on one and the other(s) create a stand in front of you that is about the height of your naval (while seated). If the surface of your stand is not level due to the shape of the cinder block, you may have to lay an additional concrete slab on the top for a nice flat surface. Place the towel (in single layer) over the support stand. This is your striking surface.

Fill the canvas bag with the rocks and fold the remaining half of the bag over to create a side that is double layered. Tape the bag shut (masking or duct tape will do). Place the bag on the stand and your simple setup is complete.

**When striking for training, it is important to stay relaxed and allow your hand to drop onto the surface.
Do not tense the arm or shoulder, or exert strength while striking. Always breath out as you strike. Exerting strength or failing to breath out is said to stress the heart so, I choose not to tempt fate and try to keep my arm relaxed as possible. You do what you like at your own risk.


Optional training:

You can supplement with a bucket of sand. Straight punch the sand 30 times and repeat with the backfist. Do 100 spearhand thrusts into the sand. You can also rub the sand between you hands to toughen the skin.

Some iron palm practitioners feel that it is unwise to train the knuckles of the fist because of possible long term joint damage. This is fine for strict iron palm fighters, but if you train in any fist striking art, it may be wise to strengthen your knuckles. Chinese acupressure teaches that training the fingertips can weaken the eyes. Take this into consideration when training spearhand but also realize that plenty of karate stylists train fingertips and can see just fine.

Different teachers advocate different numbers of strikes per session. Some use hundreds or even thousands of repetitions. Some say to train three times a day, others say you must train the exact same time everyday without missing a day. Maybe these routines are ideal, but with the method I outlined above, you can train whenever and even miss a day or two. The less days you miss, the better it will be for you. You should achieve impressive results after 100 days of training. At that point, you should be able to break a single patio block with a flat palm slap (use a towel padding at first).

If it helps, mark the days off on your calendar. If you don't keep a record, you may not be training as often as you think. Good Luck!

[Dale Dugas]

MF, nice ripping off of Iron Hand Tamashiwaris website of rather inane and silly training with rocks.

Nifoc, do not do this kind of rock training or anything MF says about IP as he seems to be trolling info off the net(unless he meant it as a joke) rather than speak from personal experience.

MF, you should credit info when you cut and paste it off a webiste. Also that site was affliated with some of the better known frauds...FYI "master" Brian Gray and his mysterious list of unknown teachers, as well as James Lacy, an ex-con and known fool of the MA community.

You want to train in the graduated method then use mung beans, THEN gravel, then steel shot. Some people only use metal shot encased in pvc lined bags to keep the metal in the bag and not on your skin or in your lungs. Others use the direct method and have the material in big vases or woks and have at it. Direct method is tough and you need an internal medicine as well as the external hand wash to make sure no injuries are suffered from metal absorbtion using medicine on the hands and having metal powder mixing with the medicine and causing reactions.

Most people put their mediums in bags.

Unlike MF's advice to break after 3 months, you should not be breaking at all until you have at least a year of training under your belt. Breaking is not the reason you are training your hands. Who cares how many bricks you can break. Learn to pull your power from your dan tian to your hand(s) via the medicine and the internal exercises that are needed to make the program work. Most programs do not even teach the essential Qi gong exercises, utter madness to be doing that.

You want personal training on this as there are nuances that beginners need to learn in order not to hurt themselves. Learn the basics and then start slow and steady.

[Mantis Fist]

nifoc was asking how to build one so I thought i would look it up on the net for him, I dont do IP training but thought it would be of some help, this WAS NOT MY ADVICE it was meerly a method i found!!

[Dale Dugas]

MF,

Why not share your training in Chow Gar Tong Long Kuen Tit Sar Jeurng? I have heard of the method and know its very decent.

That table for the Tiger style is silly in my opinion but hey if works for you then all the better for you.




Cheers,

[nifoc]

I was told to get one of those tables by my Sifu. I trust him, so I'll get one ;)

And yes, I'm aware of the Qigong requirement. My Sifu instructed me to practise it every day during IP-training.

I've been told that after his sifus retirement, my Sigung har trained with both the Chiu family and with Wing Lam... If I've been missinformed, please tell me so that I can raise the question with my Sifu.

[hasayfu]

nifoc,

I don't want to get into the details. You can see the CHKA's statement here:
http://wle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1345&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I checked and they took down the lineage chart when this statement was made. It's still down.

If you enjoy learning from your sifu, I suggest you only read the statement and not the rest of the thread.

I want to state again, that I have never met Kautzman and will not comment on his abilities.

[David Jamieson]

all bickering aside....lol, sometimes it seems like there are larger family camp members of certain Hung Lineages who simply refuse to accept that Hung is wider and ****her spread than their own families.

some even go so far as to compose charts that only include those lines connected to LSW and his students with the possible exception of one or two others, although they are rare to find.

I would add that if WL doesn't want people to add him to their lineage then maybe he should stopp selling memberships in his federation for 40 bucks a year and tapes of his sets that walk you through entire systems.

TO put that out there, let people have it, then tell everyone that you have nothing to do with the person who has obviously trained in yoru material is on a level of equal culpability in my opinion.

no offense intended, but if you want to keep your stuff a secret and want to be special and closed door, then do that or get off the pot.

Wing Lam has done a good thing for putting all that material out there regardless of his motivations to do so be it one or the other or a little of both (spread the art/ make some bank or both)

there are a lot of firecrackers out there who get cheesed about people who do the correspondence traing with WLE.

WLE will sell you certificates from training in his tapes, there are some small requirements and you would have to only see him once or twice over the course of the whole thing.

So before we go dissing the people who take WLE up on that offer, lets look at some root causality first?

Hypocricy doesn't look good on anyone on either side of theungfu fence and quite frankly, I think there are far too many lineage wh0res to begin with. lol

[neilhytholt]

I have met with a couple of WL's students who teach, and they just use the cinderblock supports for his 'Shaolin' method. I never met any who had the tiger table.

Cinderblocks are cheap, like $3 or something, although they're relatively heavy to cart around if you're a student and don't have a car. A lot of building supply places will deliver if you don't have a friend with a car.

As to the person who said condition the knuckles, I really don't recommend this as I have tried it a few times and it seems to cause some stiffness. You might find that if you just do the back of you hand that your knuckles are stronger as well.