PDA

View Full Version : Condensation Form & Pre- vs. Post-Birth



crumble
04-02-2001, 03:07 PM
A question for anybody willing to answer!

When people use the term "Condensation Form" what are they referring to?

I think this is a related question: What distinquishes pre-birth and post-birth exercises? And how/when would a teacher decide to teach a student one or the other?

As near as I can tell, it seems like condensation form and pre-birth forms are for initally developing relaxation, intent, and structure, whereas post birth is for developing techniques/applications.


I'm very interested in people's responses!

-crumbl

Water Dragon
04-05-2001, 03:30 AM
Are you doing Bagua now? Still up for Tui Shou in Grant Park this summer?

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

count
04-05-2001, 04:50 AM
Different schools will interperate pre and post heaven differently. My understanding is one is circular training and exercise and the other is linear and combative.

Water Dragon, I grew up not far from Grant Park. You do mean in Chicago, right? What is the event your speaking of and when is it? Is it an organized thing or just a meeting? I might get back to Chi town this summer.
@

Water Dragon
04-05-2001, 03:46 PM
Crumble and I both work downtown. We tried to get together this winter but he's like the last stop on the Brown line and I live in Indiana. We had discussed maybe working out in Grant Park this summer. Let me know if you make it this way.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

Braden
04-05-2001, 08:34 PM
pre-birth and post-birth are two different arrangements of the 8 trigrams. which one you use depends on what you're talking about. pre-birth arrangement describes things sort of in their "essential order". post-birth arrangement describes things as they end up happening once the universe has grabbed a hold of them. so in chinese medicine, you would use pre-birth arrangement to talk about genetic diseases, and post-birth arrangement to talk about aquired diseases.

in baguazhang, pre-birth training has to do with fundamental energies, post-birth has to do sort of with applications. but like yin and yang, each has a little of the other. pre-birth training of course has some excellent applications. post-birth training isn't meant to be "carbon-copied" into applications, but is more directly applicable and works on things like timing and coordination.

there is not a consistent relation to circular and linear. gao yisheng, liu dekuan, and some cheng ting-hua lineages have circular pre-birth and linear post-birth. but fu zhensong and some yin fu lineages have the opposite. for some it's all circular. i don't think it's all linear for anybody though.

count
04-06-2001, 12:09 AM
http://kabooom.com/avitar.gif

crumble
04-10-2001, 03:39 PM
Heya WaterD,

No, not taking bagua... I was just struck by the similarity in the pre-birth idea (bagua) and the condensation idea (taiji) -- but I wanted to see if I was on track.

Yup, I'm still looking to play this summer!

I also need to dig up that old KFO post that talked about where groups of people meet...

Bring on the warm weather!

-c