Fights At Work (or why not to train martial arts)

[neilhytholt]

So I almost got into a fight at work, about 20 minutes ago.

So I'm coming back into the office from a late lunch (I went to pick up a sandwich), and as I'm walking from my car up the stairs, I'm practicing UFC style inward elbows and downward elbows as if against an opponent on the ground or in the clinch.

So I go to get some coffee before heading to my desk, and as I'm reaching into the refrigerator to get some creamer for my coffee, and there were 3 guys talking in the kitchen, and one of them evidently backs into the refrigerator (I'm assuming he didn't do this on purpose), knocking the door pretty hard against my head. I go, "What the hell?" And shove the door back. Then the door comes back at me again, and I'm not so nice in my verbiage, and I shove it back hard.

As I stand up and close the door, the guy comes up right in my face, as if he's going to do something, and I almost elbow him in the head right there, but I don't, and instead we get into a little shouting match right there in the kitchen.

That was bad.

Anyway, I'm wondering has anybody else gotten hit or something at work and then the adrenaline kicks in. I didn't expect that a hit to the back of the head by a door like that would have that kind of effect.

[SevenStar]

LOL, my day job is in web design. Every time I talk to the marketing department, I wanna elbow someone in the head.

You did the right thing by not elbowing him. But as you said, shouting in the workplace is bad. Even if you woulda choked him out - you coulda done that in silence and shut him up... ;)

How close is the breakroom to the rest of the office? Do you know if anyone else heard?

[neilhytholt]

LOL, my day job is in web design. Every time I talk to the marketing department, I wanna elbow someone in the head.

You did the right thing by not elbowing him. But as you said, shouting in the workplace is bad. Even if you woulda choked him out - you coulda done that in silence and shut him up... ;)

How close is the breakroom to the rest of the office? Do you know if anyone else heard?

It's actually pretty isolated, and the incident didn't last very long, but everybody will probably find out eventually. Oh, well. Not much I can do about it now.

Our DBA is doing some work on our database right now, so I think I'm going to go play some Foozball and try to blow off the steam.

[Chief Fox]

Maybe you should lighten up dude. It sounds like the first push against the door was an accident and your gut reaction to that is to shove it back. Maybe go with the decaf next time. :D

[GeneChing]

...I have always kept weapons in easy reach of my desk. Of course, I was a full-time sword maker for a spell, so it was sort of a given there (and not so surprisingly, there was a lot of fellow employee attacking, just on general principle).

Occasionally, some hot shot master comes in and tries to impress me with some move like throwing me into a wall or something. It's a bit silly, like "I have something to prove" and I'm thinking, "right, you just proved your an *******". Believe it or not, we had some guy put a move on Gigi recently (but he has a long history of asisine behavior with us here). Such behavior is a quick way to keep from ever being covered in the magazine. ;)

[neilhytholt]

Maybe you should lighten up dude. It sounds like the first push against the door was an accident and your gut reaction to that is to shove it back. Maybe go with the decaf next time. :D

Well it was hard, was the thing. That was the shock of it was that it wasn't just some light tap, it was like bang, head against the thing. Anyways sounds like there's not much todo about it on the rumor mill so I guess it passed by okay.

[neilhytholt]

...I have always kept weapons in easy reach of my desk. Of course, I was a full-time sword maker for a spell, so it was sort of a given there (and not so surprisingly, there was a lot of fellow employee attacking, just on general principle).

Occasionally, some hot shot master comes in and tries to impress me with some move like throwing me into a wall or something. It's a bit silly, like "I have something to prove" and I'm thinking, "right, you just proved your an *******". Believe it or not, we had some guy put a move on Gigi recently (but he has a long history of asisine behavior with us here). Such behavior is a quick way to keep from ever being covered in the magazine. ;)

What a job you have. Every MAist should be so lucky. The rest of us I guess have to be content with mostly boredom all day.

[Wood Dragon]

Settle down, Francis.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think you should punch his wife.

seriously ... punch that b itch right in the teeth.

[viper]

Gda thats completely random its funni as but "right in the teeth"

[Chief Fox]

...I have always kept weapons in easy reach of my desk.
Yeah Gene, we're putting new coversheets on all the TPS reports 'before' they go out now. So if you could just remember to do that from now on, that'd be great. Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh! :D

[Ray Pina]

Sounds like you might have over reacted. The guy might not have seen you or accidentaly backed into the door.... your reaction was agressive and esculated the situation.

You should balance your training with something melow, like playing an instrument or painting or something. If you walk around like a live wire losing your $hit over every little mistake, or even stupid thing that someone does (people do a lot of stupid things) you'll be fighting all the time.

One time might be the wrong time: at work (get fired), with a tougher guy than you (get beat up), with an off duty cop (beat up and arrested).

Accidents happen. Purposeful things happen to. No harm, no foul. Especially with civilians. Beating up some chump at work proves what?

[PlumDragon]

Shoot the guy an email and let him know that you are offering him a friendly invitation to come roll with you in class tomorrow night.

[GeneChing]

When I was a kid, one of my friends punched me right in the teeth. I can't even remember why. I must have said something that ****ed him off. Anyway, I was in mid sentance when he let the punch fly and it resulted in his fist going into my mouth. My head nodded back and absorbed all the impact as my teeth closed around his knuckles, cutting them very deeply. The end result was that my friend was crying with his fist all cut up and I was sitting there wondering what happened and what I said. Ahh, sweet childhood memories of playground fights, not nearly as intense as fights at the office...

[neilhytholt]

When I was a kid, one of my friends punched me right in the teeth. I can't even remember why. I must have said something that ****ed him off. Anyway, I was in mid sentance when he let the punch fly and it resulted in his fist going into my mouth. My head nodded back and absorbed all the impact as my teeth closed around his knuckles, cutting them very deeply. The end result was that my friend was crying with his fist all cut up and I was sitting there wondering what happened and what I said. Ahh, sweet childhood memories of playground fights, not nearly as intense as fights at the office...

Oh, those were the days. Like one time this bully who always punched me and ran away. He could run faster than me so I never could catch him after the initial punch. Finally one day my fingernails had grown out a bit and I grabbed his arm as he went to punch me with both hands. He pulled away and I dug in, leaving a few several inch long gashes in his arm and his skin under my nails.

Funny how most of kids I fought with in grade school wound up being my best friends in high school. Those were some of the people I had known the longest, and it was always fun kicking back beers and talking about how we used to fight as kids.

[Judge Pen]

I'll share:

I was at my neighbor's house when I was 5 year old and their cousin from Ohio (I guess he was 6 at the time) was killing ants with a magnifying glass. I took offense and told him to stop. He got mad and side kicked me in the chest and knocked me down (stupid Tae Kwon Do student). I tackled him and kept hitting him until he started crying. My first encounter with the martial arts.

[jethro]

Shoot the guy an email and let him know that you are offering him a friendly invitation to come roll with you in class tomorrow night.


sounds like you overreacted as bit, you had the time to react hard, you should have just let the guy know you hit him, if he acts like a dic, walk away.

It's too easy to get into fights with people if you don't let things go. WHen you are at your job, it is essential to have control. That's not to say to fight him after work, but extreme cases do happen.

[neilhytholt]

sounds like you overreacted as bit, you had the time to react hard, you should have just let the guy know you hit him, if he acts like a dic, walk away.

It's too easy to get into fights with people if you don't let things go. WHen you are at your job, it is essential to have control. That's not to say to fight him after work, but extreme cases do happen.

It turned out okay. I have a nice bruise starting up on my right temple today behind my eye, so when I saw him (he likes to have talks with his buddies in the kitchen), he apologized and acted really sorry.

But yeah, if I had decked him that would have been bad. I just never got this close to having a fight at work before.

(I guess I should also add that I never got hit this hard at work before, either).

[jethro]

It turned out okay. I have a nice bruise starting up on my right temple today behind my eye, so when I saw him (he likes to have talks with his buddies in the kitchen), he apologized and acted really sorry.

But yeah, if I had decked him that would have been bad. I just never got this close to having a fight at work before.

(I guess I should also add that I never got hit this hard at work before, either).



that's good that you have never come close, cause when you get fired cause you got in a little wrestling match with someone at work, you'll learn to control yourself. But glad to hear all is well, like I said it is easy to overreact and you had reason to at least say something in a loud voice to him, just keep doing things the way you have been doing them, you can't help but react like that sometimes.

[neilhytholt]

that's good that you have never come close, cause when you get fired cause you got in a little wrestling match with someone at work, you'll learn to control yourself. But glad to hear all is well, like I said it is easy to overreact and you had reason to at least say something in a loud voice to him, just keep doing things the way you have been doing them, you can't help but react like that sometimes.

I'm trying to decide about this one, because today I am not sure I didn't do the right thing in yelling at him, because as far as I can tell he was talking, hit the door and lost his balance or something, because he sure as heck hit me hard.

If he had hit me in the neck or something he might have done more damage. But yeah, my first reaction of wanting to smack him with an elbow wasn't the right one, but I think that yelling at him in this situation was okay and justified. (Nobody seems to blame me given the bump/bruise on my head today and in a politically correct corporate environment that is unusual).

[hellhound]

LOL, my day job is in web design. Every time I talk to the marketing department, I wanna elbow someone in the head.

I'm an IT director. Designers seem to go out of their way to **** me off.

Gfx and marketing are on equal grounds in my eyes however you probably feel the same about IT and marketing ;)

Fighting at work though? Nah... Well... unless your are single, have no children and can easily move back in w/ mommy & daddy. On the other hand I have one who is an addict and another who gets put in a mental institution at least once a year. So I must make sure I always have a job.

[rogue]

Web designers are the guys who couldn't make it as a code jockey. :p :D

Given todays business climate it's best to avoid fights of any kind except if the other guy is going to harm you physically. I even avoid letting people know that I'm into the martial arts and have a license to carry a concealed weapon. Here in VA, if work finds out about that then they are allowed to search you, your desk and even your car if it's on company property and dismiss you on the spot if they find something that violates company policy.

[neilhytholt]

Web designers are the guys who couldn't make it as a code jockey. :p :D

Given todays business climate it's best to avoid fights of any kind except if the other guy is going to harm you physically. I even avoid letting people know that I'm into the martial arts and have a license to carry a concealed weapon. Here in VA, if work finds out about that then they are allowed to search you, your desk and even your car if it's on company property and dismiss you on the spot if they find something that violates company policy.

Once the guys from India and China completely take over (it seems like they're about 90% of the way there already), web designers might actually have a job, though, compared to the code monkeys. :)

[rogue]

I've earned a lot of money fixing the work of offshore programmers. :D

[neilhytholt]

I've earned a lot of money fixing the work of offshore programmers. :D

I'm not sure what's worse, having to work with them here, or fix their work after. I think having to work with them here, because the language and culture differences make working a real pain.

Indians:

a) Really nice. Too nice. Can't be direct in communication and ask straightforward questions or tell you straightforward when there's a problem.
b) Don't disagree, ask the same question like 3x instead.
c) Because they don't disagree, things break, but managers don't know about it until later or at all.
d) Because they are nice and don't disagree, they seem like model employees while they're messing everything up and writing really convoluted code.

I have no idea why management hires these people, but they are the same management that hires big accounting firms to do projects that fail, so guess it's not that hard to understand why.

[rogue]

That's easy to answer, because American executives think Indian labor is cheap, and it's easy to lie to American executives that the Indian firm will put an expert programmer on the job at $25 an hour because many of the executives are dim!
Here's a recent story. One night at dinner I had a friend who is a VP at a large US firm say it's the Amercian programmers fault for charging so much for what is a commodity. I asked him how much he earned a year and wouldn't it be more cost effective to outsource his position to someone in India. After all they had replaced the companies president and several vice-presidents with no problem so that must make his position a commodity also. And they did have a rather large problem when one of their IT staff quit, they could not find a replacement for him and they had to hire him back as a high dollar consultant.

I work with several people from India and they are top notch and they get paid for being good. And they can't stand the outsourcers either. :D

[Hau Tien]

I've never been in an altercation at my programming job (I used to fight nightly when I was a bouncer in a rough redneck bar)... although I might have headed that off early.

One of my fellow programmers found out I did martial arts and decided to test me. I walked into the room and he lauched himself onto my back and went to choke me out. At the same time he jumped, he said "What would you do if I did THIS?!?".

I hit him in the nuts while my hands were low, then tossed him forward, over my shoulder, onto the ground. He landed with a loud thud and a grunt. The VP was laughing so hard I thought he was going to pee.

No one has tried anything physical with me since ;)

[neilhytholt]

That's easy to answer, because American executives think Indian labor is cheap, and it's easy to lie to American executives that the Indian firm will put an expert programmer on the job at $25 an hour because many of the executives are dim!
Here's a recent story. One night at dinner I had a friend who is a VP at a large US firm say it's the Amercian programmers fault for charging so much for what is a commodity. I asked him how much he earned a year and wouldn't it be more cost effective to outsource his position to someone in India. After all they had replaced the companies president and several vice-presidents with no problem so that must make his position a commodity also. And they did have a rather large problem when one of their IT staff quit, they could not find a replacement for him and they had to hire him back as a high dollar consultant.

I work with several people from India and they are top notch and they get paid for being good. And they can't stand the outsourcers either. :D

I used to work with a lot of good programmers from India but the new folks are pretty sad, to say the least. One guy where I work even admitted he lies on his resume to get jobs. He said he was going to learn a new piece of software so he could make more money, and I told him he wouldn't get a job unless he was experienced (he is one of the worst programmers I ever met but my manager loves him -- he gets away with writing crap I could never get away with), and he said, oh, just lie, that's how he got his current Portal job. ???

The thing is, because these folks don't have a brain, managers love them. I guess managers don't have to worry about any competition from them too. Basically management is clueless is the bottom line. (Is my director reading this? LOL)

[tug]

I'll share:

I was at my neighbor's house when I was 5 year old and their cousin from Ohio (I guess he was 6 at the time) was killing ants with a magnifying glass. I took offense and told him to stop. He got mad and side kicked me in the chest and knocked me down (stupid Tae Kwon Do student). I tackled him and kept hitting him until he started crying. My first encounter with the martial arts.

Or the time in 5th grade where I finally got fed up with being bullied by this one kid and just tried something - a shove, then a throw into a RNC. I had no idea what I was doing, but the kid never bothered me again.

[rogue]

I used to work with a lot of good programmers from India but the new folks are pretty sad, to say the least. One guy where I work even admitted he lies on his resume to get jobs. He said he was going to learn a new piece of software so he could make more money, and I told him he wouldn't get a job unless he was experienced (he is one of the worst programmers I ever met but my manager loves him -- he gets away with writing crap I could never get away with), and he said, oh, just lie, that's how he got his current Portal job. ???

The thing is, because these folks don't have a brain, managers love them. I guess managers don't have to worry about any competition from them too. Basically management is clueless is the bottom line. (Is my director reading this? LOL)

I've had the same experience. Last year I used one of those Head First books as a guide for interview questions. One interviewee gave me verbatim answers from the very book I had used as a guide. He impressed the hell out of my dim witted boss with his knowledge of the subject even though me and the other programmer brought up his lack of experience. What a disaster.

[neilhytholt]

I've had the same experience. Last year I used one of those Head First books as a guide for interview questions. One interviewee gave me verbatim answers from the very book I had used as a guide. He impressed the hell out of my dim witted boss with his knowledge of the subject even though me and the other programmer brought up his lack of experience. What a disaster.

We had this guy come in that claimed to be an architect and his company wanted like $125 an hour for him. He had 8 years in India and 4 years in the U.S., claimed 12 years experience.

He couldn't answer a single Java question, a single C++ question, didn't know anything about databases, didn't know anything about project management, or anything. My manager still wanted to bring him in, "Just in case we need another person." ???

[rogue]

And we all know that having "just one more person" really helps a project. Got to love the numbers game. :rolleyes: I did work for one company fixing their off-shored code and had to put up with a director telling me how many programmers he could get in India and China for the price he was paying us. :D