Fellow baji-players: A question...

[baji-boy]

We all know it: Baji is hard on your knees! I've never really had a problem with my knees so far, well, up until today. After I got home from practice, I might have stretched or twisted my knee in some strange way. It's pretty painful! But, I'm not sure if it's from Baji, or maybe because I didn't exactly stretch after, and that I ran a pretty good distance, again, without stretching or anything. After sitting down and watching TV after a few minutes, I got up and it happened: from the center of my kneecap, a surprising pain arose.

It's hard to describe, but it mostly feels as if you need to "crack" your knuckles, and you can't, but when you move the joint, it is very painful.

So, my question/s is/are, have any of you ever experienced this? Is this just a result of not properly "cooling down", or is it the Baji training? I would ask sifu, but I won't see him till next week...And also, any advice on any stretches or excersises that I could do?

Thanks! :D

[count]

I know how you feel baji boy, Baji did the same thing to my knee. The only cure for baji knees is bagua! :D
Seriously though, Put ice on it and relax it up high. Hope this helps.

[Mr. Nemo]

You don't have to stomp to get pain in your knees - sometimes it just happens from holding a lot of low stances. From what I understand, this pain is from your tendons, not your joints, and it should go away fairly quickly after you practice. I used to get that kind of pain when I first started bagua, but I don't get much of it anymore (though I do get a it sometimes). As your tendons catch up with your muscles in terms of strength, the pain should start to go away.

But I don't do the stomping in bagua, so maybe you have a different problem.

[Kevin Wallbridge]

Where in your knees? Front, sides, in the joint capsule? If it feels like it needs to "crack" it isn't likely tendon. Perhaps there is irritation to the bursa, you wouldn't be the first martial artist to develop bursitis in the knees.

Do your knees ever pass your toes when your leg is bearing weight? Perhaps your hips need to be looser, this is the source a vast number of knee problems.

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

[RAF]

REST, REST, and More REST.

Are you stomping on concrete? If so, stop and don't stomp as much. Do you know the bear walking exercise? Spend more time doing that. It teaches you to stay relaxed while you drop your weight.

Are you competing with others to make the loudest sounding stomp? If so, stop. The stomp has to naturally relaxed and the entire body must more or less drop. If you are trying to simply stomp from you thigh to knee to ground, what is happening with your upper body?

How long are you training? Cut your training time, spend time doing upper body exercises like the standing punches and da qiang exercises.

Are you wearing any type of weighted vest? Stop.

How about your weight? Up or down? I read once that for every pound of bodyweight you gain, 3 pounds of pressure are created on the knees.

Above, if the pain continues, stop, rest and as a last resort see specialist who is slow with the knife

[Mr. Nemo]

"Do your knees ever pass your toes when your leg is bearing weight?"

Does this really harm your knees? I've heard people say that the "knees passing the toes" thing is a myth, at least if all your working with is your own bodyweight. My knees pass my toes now when I'm in horse stance, though not by much and I haven't had any problems with it. When my sifu does horse stance, his knees pass his toes, and he doesn't have any problems. And he's being doing horse stance his whole life.

[count]

I think your sifu's joints are a little more opened up and his tendons are a little more developed than yours. I think it is important to stand with the benefit of support your body gives you naturally. This means not allowing your knees to be out in front of your feet in a horse stance. It's just weaker and leaves you vulnerable to being knocked over and puts alot of stress on the tendons.
When my knee was so sore I could not train from Baji, I saw the herbalist who shared our school at the time. His treatments worked wonders and the pain was gone in 3 days. I'm not sure if the taste of the herbs was worse than the pain but it worked. Baji boy, do you have access to a good doctor of TCM. If the pain is still there in a few days, I recommend one.
;)

[baji-boy]

Thanks everyone! :D Although my knee is a bit sore still, I found that just resting and gradually easing into practice was the cure. If the problem keeps on occuring, I don't think I'd be able to see a TCM doctor, count, as there are none that I know of. Even if there was, I doubt that my mom would let me, as my family is comprised of "western doctors", but who knows? :D

[Mr. Nemo]

What I want to know concerning the knees passing the toes is: where does this belief come from? Are there medical studies or anecdotal evidence supporting it? I've read a lot of literature that says doing weightless squats and stance training where the knees pass the toes should not cause knee shearing of any kind.

It does put strain on the tendons, yes, but that should strengthen them, according to what I've read, and my own experience backs this up. I do weightless squats and stance training with my knees passing my toes, and I don't get pain anymore.