mantis108
05-04-2006, 12:56 PM
Hi TaiChiMantis,
Thanks for the question regarding our lineage Chui Chuk Kai Tai Chi Praying Mantis (CCK TCPM).
First and foremost, I will have to stress that my reply is my own understanding through research via personal conversations, correspondences, material exchanges, internet search, etc. I formed an opinion based on these findings. It is by no mean an official position sanctioned by the Chuk-Kai Tai Chi Mantis Chinese Boxing Gymnasium Alumni Association (the Alumni). It represents only my belief and all errors if any are mine alone.
First a recap on your question:
How can I see chinese characters, I only see boxes. Also, for Robert....I was told that taiji tanglang is the closest lineage of tanglang that was practiced at the Shaolin temple. Is this why some in our lineage call themselves "Shaolin Tai Chi Praying Mantis"? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
CCK TCPM like all Shandong Tanglang Men recognizes Wang Lang as the founder of the style. It is believed that Wang Lang befriended the Abbot of a temple in Mount Da Zhe (sp?) which is actually boarding modern day Yantai and Qingdao juristictions. They becames friend through friendly matches with the Abbot being the victor at first and then Wang created Tanglangqaun which make him the victor instead.
There are 2 things very important in this familiar tale out of the tens and hundred of Wang Lang legends. One it puts the birth place of Tanglang in between the 2 of the most important development location of TLQ (not Henan Shaolin Temple). Two it acknowledged the fact that TLQ was born out of friend matches (still actually figthing experience) in a civil setting (not a rebellion cause as some tales has it).
It is said that Wang Lang for some reason when to a meeting of martial artists in the Shandong area and he met our second generation master Hou Chiyuan who was a Taizu Men master from Laiyang. Hou thaught his brother Hou Jie.
This IMHO again serves 2 purposes. 1) it is to acknowledge Taizu men as an important component of our lineage. 2) it is to bring a closer tie to the Shaolin Authentic. Hou Chiyuan and Hou Jie could have been real people in the Taizu Men but I have not found proof of that yet. Note that Laiyang is mentioned.
Hou Jie taught Ma Qiang whom I believe is a name variation of Ma Xiang (a well known Shandong horse bandit). Ma Qiang taught Liang Xue Xiang. BTW, Liang has Digong training as well.
This is one of the most vivid stories borrowed from Digong Men (ground fighting system) and popular MA novels at the time IMHO. It is generally accepted that there was a nameless outlaw in the Greater Meihwa Line who taught Li Bingxiao. Li taught Zhao Zhu. Liang Xue Xiang was a relative of Zhao Zhu. Prior to nameless outlaw the history of GML is unclear.
So Far there is nothing that really connects GML or CCK TCPM to Shaolin. Even the Shaolin Authentic is circumstantial at best.
Liang Xue Xiang (1810-?) school based in Laiyang and he had students from all over the place including one of his favorite students Sun YuanChang (1857-1935) of Haiyang county.
It is of note that in an article by New Martial Hero magazine, they mistakenly place Sun as from Laiyang and Jiang Hualong from Haiyang. It should be the opposite.
Sun had many students mainly in the Haiyang area. Two of them (Ren Fengrui and Chi Shoujin) taught in Yantai city where GM Chiu Chuk Kai (1900-1991) learned from them both. BTW, this is the 15th anniversary of his passing.
Up to this point there is still nothing that jumps out and say Shaolin. Everything points to the GML line is more than likely indigenous Shandong pugilism.
So where does this Shaolin Taiji Tanglang came from? Well, we found that in MA magazines like that article about CCK TCPM that clearly said "Shandong Shaolin Taiji Tanglang Men". But then on our Wooden Dummy book (sanctioned by the Alumni) cover and within the pages of the book, it is never called Shaolin Taiji Tanglang Men. It is always Taiji Tanglang Men. Only the wood dummy form is called Shaolin Fozhuang because that form came from the Yongchun style that has an intimate relationship with the Southern Shaolin (again it has nothing to do with Henan Shaolin temple).
The moral? Beware of what you read from the MA magazine and keep researching and reaching for the truth. Often history, despite the well intention and all, is a perspective to serve more than one purpose. We need to be objective about it. As for why some of our schools in the lineage call themselves Shaolin Taiji Tanglang and that it is "practiced" in Henan Shaolin Temple. Well, I can only speculate but that's counter productive for us all IMHO. So I will just leave it at that. :)
Hope this helps and please feel free to comment.
Warm regards
Robert
PS Please try adjusting your web browser for the Chinese characters. I think that would solve that problem.
Thanks for the question regarding our lineage Chui Chuk Kai Tai Chi Praying Mantis (CCK TCPM).
First and foremost, I will have to stress that my reply is my own understanding through research via personal conversations, correspondences, material exchanges, internet search, etc. I formed an opinion based on these findings. It is by no mean an official position sanctioned by the Chuk-Kai Tai Chi Mantis Chinese Boxing Gymnasium Alumni Association (the Alumni). It represents only my belief and all errors if any are mine alone.
First a recap on your question:
How can I see chinese characters, I only see boxes. Also, for Robert....I was told that taiji tanglang is the closest lineage of tanglang that was practiced at the Shaolin temple. Is this why some in our lineage call themselves "Shaolin Tai Chi Praying Mantis"? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
CCK TCPM like all Shandong Tanglang Men recognizes Wang Lang as the founder of the style. It is believed that Wang Lang befriended the Abbot of a temple in Mount Da Zhe (sp?) which is actually boarding modern day Yantai and Qingdao juristictions. They becames friend through friendly matches with the Abbot being the victor at first and then Wang created Tanglangqaun which make him the victor instead.
There are 2 things very important in this familiar tale out of the tens and hundred of Wang Lang legends. One it puts the birth place of Tanglang in between the 2 of the most important development location of TLQ (not Henan Shaolin Temple). Two it acknowledged the fact that TLQ was born out of friend matches (still actually figthing experience) in a civil setting (not a rebellion cause as some tales has it).
It is said that Wang Lang for some reason when to a meeting of martial artists in the Shandong area and he met our second generation master Hou Chiyuan who was a Taizu Men master from Laiyang. Hou thaught his brother Hou Jie.
This IMHO again serves 2 purposes. 1) it is to acknowledge Taizu men as an important component of our lineage. 2) it is to bring a closer tie to the Shaolin Authentic. Hou Chiyuan and Hou Jie could have been real people in the Taizu Men but I have not found proof of that yet. Note that Laiyang is mentioned.
Hou Jie taught Ma Qiang whom I believe is a name variation of Ma Xiang (a well known Shandong horse bandit). Ma Qiang taught Liang Xue Xiang. BTW, Liang has Digong training as well.
This is one of the most vivid stories borrowed from Digong Men (ground fighting system) and popular MA novels at the time IMHO. It is generally accepted that there was a nameless outlaw in the Greater Meihwa Line who taught Li Bingxiao. Li taught Zhao Zhu. Liang Xue Xiang was a relative of Zhao Zhu. Prior to nameless outlaw the history of GML is unclear.
So Far there is nothing that really connects GML or CCK TCPM to Shaolin. Even the Shaolin Authentic is circumstantial at best.
Liang Xue Xiang (1810-?) school based in Laiyang and he had students from all over the place including one of his favorite students Sun YuanChang (1857-1935) of Haiyang county.
It is of note that in an article by New Martial Hero magazine, they mistakenly place Sun as from Laiyang and Jiang Hualong from Haiyang. It should be the opposite.
Sun had many students mainly in the Haiyang area. Two of them (Ren Fengrui and Chi Shoujin) taught in Yantai city where GM Chiu Chuk Kai (1900-1991) learned from them both. BTW, this is the 15th anniversary of his passing.
Up to this point there is still nothing that jumps out and say Shaolin. Everything points to the GML line is more than likely indigenous Shandong pugilism.
So where does this Shaolin Taiji Tanglang came from? Well, we found that in MA magazines like that article about CCK TCPM that clearly said "Shandong Shaolin Taiji Tanglang Men". But then on our Wooden Dummy book (sanctioned by the Alumni) cover and within the pages of the book, it is never called Shaolin Taiji Tanglang Men. It is always Taiji Tanglang Men. Only the wood dummy form is called Shaolin Fozhuang because that form came from the Yongchun style that has an intimate relationship with the Southern Shaolin (again it has nothing to do with Henan Shaolin temple).
The moral? Beware of what you read from the MA magazine and keep researching and reaching for the truth. Often history, despite the well intention and all, is a perspective to serve more than one purpose. We need to be objective about it. As for why some of our schools in the lineage call themselves Shaolin Taiji Tanglang and that it is "practiced" in Henan Shaolin Temple. Well, I can only speculate but that's counter productive for us all IMHO. So I will just leave it at that. :)
Hope this helps and please feel free to comment.
Warm regards
Robert
PS Please try adjusting your web browser for the Chinese characters. I think that would solve that problem.