got schooled-and loved every minute of it

[TenTigers]

so...there's this group of Martial Artists that hang out in the park in Chinatown, and I like to go down there on Sunday mornings and play. Well, today, I got to do some pushing with a few guys-one guy just has this very good awareness, where wherever his arms are, he is in alignment, and it is hard to exploit his motion. It feels like a boa-if you have ever played with one, there is this feeling of suppleness, yet energy throughout. I had fun playing chi-sao with a wing chun Sifu, but the real education came later.
This little woman asked me if I wanted to push with her. I stand almost 6' and weigh about 190-she's under 5', way under 5', and if she weighs 90lbs, it's only if she's wearing a coat, holding a brick. Her arms were so small and fragile, it was like playing with a child..until she pushed me, pulled me, hit me, schooled me!:eek:
(hey that rhymes-could be a new song):)
Now, I am not well-versed in Tai-Chi, only a small amount of training in Yang, but in the park, there is a free-form style of push hands that everyone plays, so it doesn't matter what style you are from-I am Hung Kuen, and have been studying Jook Lum SPM for a bit over a year, and that is what I bring to my game, but we all play together-no egos, no attitudes. And my cup is always empty. Sure I may have my own school, but when I go to the park, I am the student.
Just wanted to share that with you guys.

[viper]

no ego to attitude man id love to go to america to do this type of thing plus its always who you least expect i love that feeling though u feel there energy and feed of it.

[viper]

no ego to attitude man id love to go to america to do this type of thing plus its always who you least expect i love that feeling though u feel there energy and feed of it. after that id be like well id totally beat u down at xbox hehehehehe.

[Ray Pina]

I got to get down there. Sounds fun.

[neilhytholt]

This little woman asked me if I wanted to push with her. I stand almost 6' and weigh about 190-she's under 5', way under 5', and if she weighs 90lbs, it's only if she's wearing a coat, holding a brick. Her arms were so small and fragile, it was like playing with a child..until she pushed me, pulled me, hit me, schooled me!:eek:
(hey that rhymes-could be a new song):)

That is awesome. You should find out where she trains.

[TenTigers]

she trains in the park!

[t.j]

sifu rick what park in china town. And when do you go down there. I saw one of your kids do a form at a demo that we did down in long beach for wellness day,he did a great job... talk to you later sifu...

[neilhytholt]

she trains in the park!

You mean that's it? No other teachers? She just trains with random people? Wow.

[TenTigers]

she assists another instructor. But she also touches hands with everybody she can. That is the beauty of it. Once you get in-which is actuallu a process, because you aren't always accepted right off. You have to go down a few times, let them know your face,talk to some of them, and then get introduced. Then once they know you're cool, and don't have an ego problem, you get to play. They are very concerned with people just coming up and being azoles, but there are many Sifus there who don't have schools, but simply are looking for the right person to pass their art down to.
There are several parks-Columbus, Seward, and the one by the bridge/ and by the handball courts. Just look for people.

[chud]

she assists another instructor. But she also touches hands with everybody she can. That is the beauty of it. Once you get in-which is actuallu a process, because you aren't always accepted right off. You have to go down a few times, let them know your face,talk to some of them, and then get introduced. Then once they know you're cool, and don't have an ego problem, you get to play. They are very concerned with people just coming up and being azoles, but there are many Sifus there who don't have schools, but simply are looking for the right person to pass their art down to.
There are several parks-Columbus, Seward, and the one by the bridge/ and by the handball courts. Just look for people.

Man that sounds like a great group and a great environment, if I lived there I'd be hanging out and learning every chance I got!
I've come to the conclusion that sometimes the best stuff is taught and handed down in parks and backyards. :)

[imperialtaichi]

I've come to the conclusion that sometimes the best stuff is taught and handed down in parks and backyards. :)



Yes, a very big, successful school usually means the owner has very good business skills. Does not reflect the quality of their art.

Sometimes the best teachers are virtually invisible.

Cheers,
John

[Subitai]

Very cool TT,

Now you know why I enjoy it so much.

My advice if you want it...is to not use your size when you face someone who is smaller than you.

If you're better and beat them, then you only flex your ego and reinforce what you already know. That you are bigger and size can make a difference.

However if you play to thier size or smaller, without overcommitting and being a listening partner, then you will see your skill rise much faster.

on the flip side, if your opponant is bigger than you, then you don't have to reserve your wieght and intent. You can just be YOU and gain skill normally.

"O"

[Ray Pina]

This is good advice and I agree. But at the same time, if I have to dumb myself down .... why do I want to learn from them? The big guy on the street won't dumb himself down for me. I need technique that allows the small to fight the big, the old the young.

If they can't rpoduce, they can't produce. My 65+ year old master, who is about 145lbs doesn't need me to reduce my power. In fact, he demands that I go full when training. Part of it I know is that he wants to show me he can handle it no problem, that the technique is sound. The other part I think is that he wants to know that he can still handle it no problem. He often says I'm lucky that he's in his golden age, old enough to have experience, but still able to do it.

I might not believe so readily if he was 75. I'm ashamed to say sometimes I still question things and ask to see too much when I should have seen enough already to take him at his word and just shut up and train how he says.

[Subitai]

Ray,

You don't understand what I mean. Just as a blind person learns to make up for lost site by hearing better, so the same meaning.

I'm 200lb, for me to buffalo around a small player (ala an old women at that) then what is the point of exchanging with her? Also there is politeness (Remember the premise...TT said that "SHE" was better than him)

If I can have the sensitivity and listening skill to absorb her and also off balance her with SKILL ALONE (not using superior size) then my skill level go's up.

I say this not so that the small guy can learn from me...but so that the BIGGER guy (ala TEN TIGERS) can learn more from her. Since he said he got schooled.

Of course on the street never hold back...but the park is not the same setting.

Yes I agree with what you said the other way around. But I hope you get my point. Also, even if she did say to me "give me all you got" Do you think i'm stupid enough to do that to a higher player.

Don't you know that the more energy you give someone, the more they have to work with? It is only after you find thier weakness, should you give it to them good.


The best way is to adjust your self to every opponant so that you gain as much as you can from each exchange.

I don't actively compete mma anymore but since then, every time I do go at it with someone who wants to get more serious...I prove it to myself everytime.


"O"


PS. DId you even stop to think that's why your sifu (who you said is smaller than you) wants you to go at him? Because he's no fool...it makes it easier for him to read and take advantage of you.

[t.j]

Yes, a very big, successful school usually means the owner has very good business skills. Does not reflect the quality of their art.

Sometimes the best teachers are virtually invisible.

Cheers,
John


you got that right..... It's become one of the bigest scaming busnises out there.

[fiercest tiger]

You got beaten by a girl? :P

nice on TT!!!

[Ray Pina]

Subitai, I understand exactly what you're saying and like I said, I agree to a point.

Now, with that said, an untrained fool rushing in gives someone a lot to work with. This is different than someone who can control their momentum, but when they collapse someone, they fully collapse someone.

Can this old lady avoid being collapsed when I try my hardest? Now, generally, I don't want to play with women. But IF I'm seeing what this woman has, I want to know does she have something. I'm not hitting her, but I want to see if she can avoid being collapsed by me, a bigger man.

If so, I can apply that to prevent a bigger male from collapsing me. Otherwise, she might only have some skill and that's good for her. But a lot of people have some skill. At this point I'm looking for someone with major skill. For that, you need to see. You can still do it in a polite way.

[Subitai]

Ok Cool Ray,

I know where you're goin' but i'm gonna need to start a new topic on push hands now.

For curiousity sake I'd like to know more about why you used the word collapsing.

But not here i'll start a different thread.

"O"

[jon]

"Now, generally, I don't want to play with women."
* Wow...
I dont know where to start, im just going to hope you didnt mean this the way it came out.

If you seriously believe you have nothing you can learn from a female then I honestly pity you. Not everything in life will be learnt from someone with more physical strength or skill than your own. I personally learn a lot from the young kids I help with training ( I am very bad at letting go and just enjoying a moment for what it is - they seem to do it so naturally), yet im fairly sure i could wipe the floor with all of them. I learn things relevant to my training from my petite middle aged Chinese language teacher at uni, she certainly knows nothing about gung fu, but her knowledge of Chinese history and culture... thats another story.

Honestly from that one comment alone it really sounds like your missing the forest for the trees.