Wa Lum exercise 2 question

[Donkwoon]

You have to know the exact exercise that I'm talking about to understand the question.

Regarding Basic exercise #2 "Locking Hands". I learned this a long, long, long time ago and so I can't remember if I was just taught a different way or if I just started doing it differently until it became habit. Specifically, I'm talking about the first step after the opening double eagle claws into the ebay style roll. I know what happens with the hands and so I'm only concerned with the footwork of this step.

The way that I've been doing it for years is face left with a LEFT 7 star stance then do the block and grab. Then I step down into left hill climbing stance and perform the strike.

I have seen others face left but extend the right foot to the RIGHT and make a 7 star stance then do the block grab and then push off the right heel into the left hill climbing stance and perform the strike.

To me, one of the main functions of the 7 star stance is that it is an undifferentiated kick and that it serves, in part, to teach proper body/leg movement. It also makes sense to me to throw a low kick while doing a high block and so the first method feels ok.

If the second method is the correct way, then what is the purpose of extending the right leg in the opposite direction of the action?

[mantid1]

You step wtih the right foot first. You step to the rigtht seven star t the north east (of your postion assuming you are facing north) as a transitional stance to get you into the hill climbing stance.

The exercise is taught left block right step together then the next count would to be rotate into the left hill climbing for a strike to the temple. It is taught that way to beginners to teach them proper footwork.

You are not stepping away from the person for the attack. The attacker is directly in front of you. It is all done as one movenent. You are side stepping with the right foot as you block with the left hand, avoiding the punch and blocking, then you rotate into the hill climbing for the strike to the temple. It can be also be a stike to the elbow and the temple, but that is more for the movies.

The best application for that is out of a double lapel grab or choke. That is why the first two eagle claws are kept so close to the body. You are coming up between their arms then do double palm stikes to face (I prefer thumbs in the eyes) then you grab the head, ears or hair (the thing you think was like ibay) and pull the head down into the right rising knee strike just before you step into the seven star. As you step you bring the left hand under and eagle claw grab their left and as you rotate do an arm bar or the temple strike.

This application is not taught to beginners it is kept simple. YOu cant teach some one you have only known for a couple of days to gouge eyes and smash a face in to the knee. Not a responsible instructor anyway.

[Donkwoon]

Thanks, that clears that old issue up quite a bit. I always wanted to ask my sifu about that but I don't get down there to much these days and when I do, we're always working on other stuff.

Thanks, D

[Chop Socki]

Good description from mantid1. As he says, stepping to the right to defend not only brings you into position to make an outside block and grab against a left hand strike from your opponent, it also sets up the additional body rotational component to the strike which increases the power over what you'd get from the arm alone.

Though I agree with everything said, I'm not sure I'd discount the value of the strike to the elbow, even if the head is a preferred target. When I learned the exercise and its applications many years ago, it was emphasized that based on the relative height of your attacker, the head might be too difficult to reach, making the elbow a more realistic target. As evidence, I point out the counter-clockwise rotation of the left hand after it grabs the attacker's wrist as it comes to your waist, intended to roll the arm of the attacker over to expose his elbow... just in case ;)

Regards,

- CS

[Citong Shifu]

Just remember, Locking Hands, Dropping horse, Pow Choy, Elephant / Mantis Trunk, or any other drills / forms are only training methods of the repsective techniques / movements. In self-defense these movements / forms are used in whatever fashion needed. Real life self-defense has no rules nor set applications.

Good Luck.
Sifu Ron.

[Donkwoon]

Thanks guys, I've been going over that exercise quite a bit lately and I have come to realize that my understanding of it did drift out of whack quite a bit. It seems that I know some of the higher forms better then some of the lower ones. Or at least I think that I do.

In regards to that exercise #2, I have seen folks do the hammer fist into their hand (the wrist, not the fist, lands into the hand) as well as in the air while pulling the other hand back to the hip. Which do you consider correct?

[Shaolin Dude]

I go to the Wah Lum school in Boston chinatown. We just chamber the hand that was used for grabbing

[Chop Socki]

The only interpretation I have ever seen has the blocking/grabbing hand coming to the waist (chambering) and the striking hand in the air where the target - whether it's the back of the head, the temple or the exposed elbow - would be. I've never seen it strike the other hand.

- CS

[ironfenix]

Right. Right. Right. But I could be wrong.

I have also seen it also with a left block, right step. I would also not count out the elbow strike as I personally feel that is easier to get than a temple strike with a right gwa choi (if he is punching with his left). Your opponent is in front of you as you step to his left. the chamber is when you pull his arm towards your belly. Using your body for support makes it easier to get a pop. I like this move but would not really use it to block his right punch. However, it does work well for a right lapel grab.

train hard

[Donkwoon]

Now that I really look at this I realize how I got this form mixed up. I do believe that I was shown the correct way but somewhere long ago (I think it was after the full year off that I did about 10 years ago) I got this exercise mixed up with other movements from other forms. I started doing it wrong untill it became habbit and it didn't come up untill I noticed others doing it differently. I think there's even a few students out there doing it the wrong way because of past reviews that I did with them.:p

The main reason that I allowed the mistake to live on is that most of the time that I get to see my sifu these days is for group seminars and during the rare privet time that I have, I don't dare bring up stuff like that because then I'll spend the lesson reviewing instead of learning the "cool" new stuff. I admit it, it's my fault.

Thanks guys. D