The disease/ a question of rank

[gazza99]

Egotism is one of biggest promlems one faces in a training enviornment. Students and teachers alike will hurt others to prove their own egos, I also believe RANK promotes egotism in a way. Yes it measures achievment and gives people some sort of a sense of acomplishment,,yada yada, but it also drives egos.
Has anyone had a bad expieriance on the above?

Also I do not believe systems like taijiquan/baugauzhang/hsing-I chuan even had rank until they reached the USA????? Does anyone know the history on that, if the above had rank systems in China? Thanks for any input!
Gary

[Destrous9]

I think the term 'rank' is fitting.

Maybe it's more for the parents who shell out the money, or the 'ego' guys who like to strut.

"Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

[Sam Wiley]

Hi Gary! Nice to see you here.

I'm one of those people who thinks rank is pretty much a bad thing as well. I think people should be involved for the process and not the goal, for the journey and not for the destination. Arriving at what you strive for is good, don't get me wrong, but I think that martial arts should be more about how you got there.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[mhhar]

Is Egotism/Rank when the Chi raises from the Dan-tien to the head?

[8 Sweaty Palms]

Is only useful as a tool for the teacher to help regulate the curriculum. Everybody already knows who the good people are.

8SP

[ope]

actually the purple color in our grading system represents the ego.. its obvious most people will get an ego from training and reaching a certain rank, but as they past a certain stage there ego will diminish... and some times its up to the instructor to get rid of it if it fails to go..

[Internal Boxer]

Traditionally grading is not commonly used in the internal arts. Although with Hsing-i stemming from a military art I am not so sure. To be honest I used to think grading was a bad thing, as on the negative side it can elevate the ego. But I think we should be more open minded and perhaps there could be a ways of grading, to get the most out of the student's ability? As it happens, myself and my co-instructor are working on a system of grading (using five elements)and starting up another class to see how it works against the none graded class. I think I will be able to comment more on the pro's and con's of both teaching approaches in about 3-5 years time. The approach we will try to adopt is not to let the student know they are being graded on those fundamentals whilst in the class, only giving out the next grade when we feel they have developed the correct properties relevant.

[les paul]

For what its worth I disagree with the hole concept of rank

I was always taught that you compeated with your self. i.e. striving to be the best within yourself

Ther are plenty of other ways to organize a program besides using a rank to show achievement. Why not teach each other its a journey (because it is!) and tell people you're at this point or location in your travels and you need to go here now etc...This doesn't mean you go soft concerning self defense. A very serious attitude needs to be taken concerning this. I find rank and ego is usally found when some kind of competition is in play. (usally in a school that focuses on tournamants)

Too many people think rank is a power level of some sort and this is what causes ego trips.

I'm on a life long exploration and will always be a novice in some way, I long ago lost the need to be somebody for others.

My opinion only, don't hold it against me.

[Kevin Wallbridge]

Grading is for sports. When Kano introduced the coloured belt system it was for the promotion of Judo as a sport.

When your martial art is based on techniques it can easily be codified into levels of technical knowledge. Once you've learned the techniques you have a measurable level.

However, when your martial art is based on principles the integration of those principles is less easily measured. As well, different people will integrate different principles at different rates. The embodiment of internal martial arts is a process, not a series of stages.

I don't think martial arts ranking is a bad thing, its just not suited to all styles or approaches. Perhaps I should say that its not a bad thing for martial sports.

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

[Internal Boxer]

Yes I am in agreement with regards to grading is not necessarily an effective template when applied to the internal arts. However the opinions expressed on the application of rank in the internal arts are mainly based on supposition and conjecture. That is why we will run the two teaching methods side by side to see if ranking is a total waste of time. In short it is an experiment. I am hesitant to draw conclusions on grading when I have not investigated all the possible teaching methods that are associated with it. If the grading proves to be not an effective teaching method, then we will be in a very very strong position with sound evidence to deride grading in the internal arts. But until then I would feel somewhat narrow minded to dismiss it without a thorough investigation.