Explosiveness: What it is and How to get it?

[SanHeChuan]

If anyone cares to know I've been exploring explosiveness as the next step in my kung fu evolution.

Has anyone noticed that when many martial arts students (regardless of rank) perform anything, weather form or fighting they are lacking. Maybe they move with correct form, good speed, and power, but are lacking the intent. They are performing instead of fighting. Their movements too smooth like dancing.

I started thinking about this after watching Muay tai fighters round kick, which is often emulated but rarely copied. Their kicks explode off the mat to strike their target, which is quite different from the quick smooth kicks you normally see in other martial arts.

I like watching Ba ji because explosiveness is built right into the form.

See the Ba Ji videos thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41125)

The next videos are of a karate guy. I happen to be studying shorin ryu karate right now due to the lack of kung fu schools in the boonies. But no matter what marital art i'm praticing I'm allways doing kung fu.

Anyway the guy is very explosive. Some clips are more impressive than others. Forget about the applications and just watch the movements. Check out the Shorin ryu kata's on this page. http://natkd.com/karate_katas.htm

How does one learn to be explosive?

Start with proper form
Learn to relax while maintaining your structure
Practice speed
Learn to control your movements at speed (like stopping and changing direction)

Then what...exercies like these?

http://members.tripod.com/~STRntHcOCh/plyobuild.html

I don't really know where I'm going with all this...advice or comments anyone?

[jethro]

dam good thing you don't start your own blog, that thing would be 10 pages long after the 1st day and no way in hell anybody would make it through that. I thought I had a lot to say but you have way too much bottled up. It sounds like you just want to be a great fighter and you worry about nothing more than being better. You are an inspiration to me. You sound young like me and it makes me want to pick my fat ass up and at least try to have the passion you do.

[BruceSteveRoy]

the number one way to develop explosive power is through plyometric exercise. it helps the body work more synergistically. i wrestled for 10 years and aside from doing a sick amount of cardio every day these exercises were the biggest asset to generating that explosion that helps you close the gap between your opponent for shooting in and taking down. also for generating that torque in the waist and hips for throwing. it will help with punching as well. the two exercises that i used to do the most are 1) do your pushups (do the kind using your knees and not using your feet) but push your torso off the ground so you are up on your knees (but not sitting on your heels) and have some one throw a medicine ball at you, catch it bring it back to your chest and launch it back at the person (make sure you are fully extending your arms when you let go) and fall right back into the push up. and repeat sets of those. its hard to explain in words. but its a fast movement that trains power, coordination and timing. the other is a sit up with a medicine ball. when you sit up throw the ball to a partner and have him immediately throw it back catch it and sit back down. this works your core which is extremely important for power generation and explosiveness. there are tons more plyometrics you can do. here are some i just did this search oso i haven't had a chance to look through these exercises to see how good they are but the few i clicked on were good. hope it helps.

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/PowerExercises.html

[viper]

Im always trying to improve. Plyo is great also theres a;lot of dif equip i got a belt thing its got rubber cord attach and this gos to my hands and i do shadow sparing this developes great muscle strength plus its a plyo exercise also its helping muscle memory this is a fundmental of expolisive action muscles memory. So the muscle know exactlly what to do with no neuro blockage maybe someone else can elaborate. Also its somthing inside you as a person you just relese it out like bang mental i cant really help you but its somthing you find for yourself.

[SPJ]

If you are interested in Ba Ji and its body methods for explosiveness,

http://www.pachitanglang.com/videos/index.htm

Master Su with the guidance of Master Liu, Ba Ji emitting energy was incorporated into his Tang Lang.

Watch the videos of him performing Ba Ji/Pa Chi and Tang Lang in the Ba Ji video threads.

:)

[SPJ]

Power issuing and emitting is a huge topic.

There are many forms of Jin/power in each style. they all have their special ways of developing them.

there are exercises and practices.

In Tong Bei or extended back fist, we have to practice the heel up and landed down, the knee bent and extended, the swinging of arms in a big circles, the closing and opening of the chest, etc

so when you see the hand is hitting on the face/nose of the opponent, the power is from the feet, relayed from the knee, waist, and stored in the shoulder and released in the hand.

the practices are in stages. relaxation of all body parts is the key.

the joints may be the stops/retardation in transmitting the force/Jin.

the Jin comes from the feet or heel up and down. when the heel is down, the hand is hitting at the "same" time. If you feel nothing, then all the Jin is transmitting to the opponent, if you feel some forces, that means there are retardations.

As pointed out, stretching, or loosening up muscles, tendons and joints etc may help you transmitt focused power to different parts of your body.

---

:D

[Ray Pina]

I would think each style has its own way of developing explosive power; it's so important. However, sharing technical ideas is different than sharing actual training methods. This si why I think the Gracies are so good. The movements are easy, anyone can do them. But why are they so good? I'm quite sure they have special training methods that they don't teach out.

Thing is, for all the BJJ guys who are not family members, they don't want to think that .... for one, it wouldn't be good for business. For two, you don't know what you don't know.

Now that I've committed more to my training, I'm learning more training things that just weren't shared with me before that make a big difference. When it's not easy to come by, you don't give it away so easy either.

[Nick Forrer]

This si why I think the Gracies are so good. The movements are easy, anyone can do them. But why are they so good? I'm quite sure they have special training methods that they don't teach out.

Thing is, for all the BJJ guys who are not family members, they don't want to think that .... for one, it wouldn't be good for business. For two, you don't know what you don't know.
.

The special training methods are

a) practicing techniques against a resisting partner from day one

b) doing it probably every day from a very young age

c) practicing an art which is relatively intuitive (grappling) and in tune with the bodys natural movement patterns.

d) not being in awe to or obsessed with preservation of tradition

e) testing what they know/do in challenge matches

Yes there are some 'back pocket techniques' or little details that people (not just the gracies) keep to themselves but mainly these are just the icing on the cake. The delivery system (the important part) is the same in any event.

[SevenStar]

I would think each style has its own way of developing explosive power; it's so important. However, sharing technical ideas is different than sharing actual training methods. This si why I think the Gracies are so good. The movements are easy, anyone can do them. But why are they so good? I'm quite sure they have special training methods that they don't teach out.

Thing is, for all the BJJ guys who are not family members, they don't want to think that .... for one, it wouldn't be good for business. For two, you don't know what you don't know.

Now that I've committed more to my training, I'm learning more training things that just weren't shared with me before that make a big difference. When it's not easy to come by, you don't give it away so easy either.

no secrest. just proper training with a healthy does of competition and willingness to evolve.


As for the question, plyometrics and power lifting.

[TenTigers]

you had mentioned a key factor in your opening post. "Intent" There is a mind/body connection that is formed when you practice with intent. When doing two man drills, you must use full intent, full power, full speed, and...control so as not to hit your partner. (this is in non contact drills, obviously there are contact drills as well-I am only mentioning this for the geniuses who see the term "not hitting yur partner" and go off on it) You will notice your explosiveness develops very fast. There is a problem-especially when you are partnered off with someone your junior, to "dumb it down" when you train. This ruins your intent and your explosiveness.

[_William_]

Firstly, do everything correctly in your given style! All the plyometrics in the world won't help you if your a sloppy, crappy fighter... The majority of your time should be spent practicing martial arts.

Now, you must increase your strength. Maximal strength(up to a certain point) is strongly correlated with explosive strength. Take your full back squat up to about 1.5x bodyweight(double bodyweight is a better standard if you can do it), your deadlift up to at least 2x bodyweight, and bench and row at least bodyweight.

Take up the olympic lifts, learn the pulls, these are specific to the development of extreme explosive power. Olympic lifters are noted for exceptional jumping abilities. For example, Shane Hammon at over 300 pounds can dunk a basketball and do backflips.

Plyometrics should be done after first building a foundation of strength. The exercises on the link you listed, much of it is too advanced for beginners. Leave the depth jumps, altitude landings, jumps with weights etc. for very high level athletes(in the East German athletic system, double bodyweight squat was needed before athletes were allowed to perform depth jumps). Basic vertical jumping exercises and broad jumps as well as medicine ball throws can go a long way towards increasing explosiveness.

And of course you will have to manage your kung fu and physical training sessions so you are not fatigued when doing your martial art.

[SanHeChuan]

many paths...

_William_,

One, I've heard this about Olympic lifts, but...

I've never seen anyone in any gym I've ever been in doing C&J etc...
The very Idea of throwing weights around in a crowded gym is frightening.

I think i got a good Idea about how to do those lifts but, without proper instruction I'd probably hurt my self.

However you can do these lift with anything, like medicine balls, so I'm might look into that, but mostly I don't think that is a path I'm going to take.

Thank you for bringing it up though for the sake of the conversation.

TenTigers,

Yes, I think a lot of school do their senior students injustice but pushing them off on the junior belt as instructors. You can learn a lot through teaching, but they need the opportunity to practice "intent" etc... on each other. Getting more than one senior student to meet you after class for practice is a miracle. It needs to be made part of class time.

Sevenstar,

OK..., go on if you feel the need to.

I'm looking for alittle more discussion here. I realized this isn't the training forum, but...

I don't see any Thai fighter's or Ba ji guys doing C&J's so while your may be a good path it can't be the only one.

[SanHeChuan]

Here's another video to break up the post.

These guys are demonstrating excellent control, and seemed "tightly wound up". Not sure this is quite the expression that I'm looking for but, it is very interesting to watch.

http://www.mantismartialart.com/demofight-2.WMV (http://www.mantismartialart.com/demofight-2.WMV)

[SanHeChuan]

It's only fair I guess to post what I'm currently doing to increase explosiveness, or whatever.

I had been doing some weight lifting to increase "Maximal" strength, but the methods I was using (the most common kind) are designed to increase muscular endurance before max strength, I think.

Anyway the more I read about what I should be doing the more I got confused about what I should be doing, so now I'm not doing any weight training right now. Oops. :rolleyes:

right now I'm more in a planning phase...

I'm doing push ups

mostly sets of 10 to 20 hands close to hit those tri's and I'm doing them as fast as I can.

I'm also doing some "hopping" push ups though not the ones BruceSteveRoy described. But I'll try those.

Then I'm doing as many push ups as I can with various hand positions, switching to knee push ups when to press on when I can not longer do them correct.

Speed sets of dips, again because the tri is the most important muscle in your arm for punching.

Doing speed frog leaps, so that my muscles are still loaded for the next jump.

Single and double leg hoping in place.

...and alot of "meditating on intent" :cool:

Inconplete I know

[SevenStar]

many paths...

I don't see any Thai fighter's or Ba ji guys doing C&J's so while your may be a good path it can't be the only one.

there is not one right way. Some may be better than others, however. boxers, wrestlers, yes, thai fighters, etc. you can see doing plyos and also lifting weights.

as for doing O lifts in a gym, I do them. there is no danger of hitting anyone unless they are really close to you. If the gym is that crowded, I'd rather not be there anyway.

[SanHeChuan]

Hey I've had all day to think about this...

I think the first thing i'd teach any student (in my own school)

would be the sucker or rabbit punch.

Have the student stand there in a relaxed posture, and without shifting weight, winding up, or tensing, throw a punch right to an imagined face. explosiveness, or at least it will be after much practice. anywho...

I know I was going some where with this but I've lost my train of thought.

I guess I'll save it for another post.

[SevenStar]

other plyo push up variations:

have to elevated platforms, like aerobic steps just a tad outside of your pushup range. start in pushup position. lower yourself, then explode back up, coming offe the ground and landing with your hands on the elevated steps. hop back down to another pushup and repeat.

----------------

using the same platforms, start in the middle of them. explode up and to either the left or right, so that one hand is on the platform and the other is on the floor. perform the lowering action, then explode, leaping to the other platform, so that now your opposite hand is on the other platform and the hand which was on the first platform is now on the floor - kinda hard to explain.

[SevenStar]

Hey I've had all day to think about this...

I think the first thing i'd teach any student (in my own school)

would be the sucker or rabbit punch.

Have the student stand there in a relaxed posture, and without shifting weight, winding up, or tensing, throw a punch right to an imagined face. explosiveness, or at least it will be after much practice. anywho...

I know I was going some where with this but I've lost my train of thought.

I guess I'll save it for another post.

a rabbit punch is just a punch to the back of the neck...

Instead of an imagined face, let them actually use the momentum and power and save possible hyperextension - let them hit the heavybag. However, I wouldn't teach them how to sucker punch.


more with the medicine ball:

naturally, you can throw the ball as in a basketball chest pass or overhead pass. Also, get in a fighting stance, holding the ball in the palm of your hand. throw a jab, releasing the ball as your punch extends. You can also do this with a straight right.

[SanHeChuan]

OK rabbit was the wrong descriptor, sucker probably was too. Lets go with straight punch, hands down, with no "tells". bag wouldn't be out of the question, but I'd probably use focus mitts instead. :D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Here's another video to break up the post.

These guys are demonstrating excellent control, and seemed "tightly wound up". Not sure this is quite the expression that I'm looking for but, it is very interesting to watch.

http://www.mantismartialart.com/demofight-2.WMV (http://www.mantismartialart.com/demofight-2.WMV)

i liked it.

[-N-]

Plyometrics.

That was my teacher's approach since the old days. Kind of a "new" thing in sports now, but it was the old school way to develop explosiveness.

N.

[SevenStar]

OK rabbit was the wrong descriptor, sucker probably was too. Lets go with straight punch, hands down, with no "tells". bag wouldn't be out of the question, but I'd probably use focus mitts instead. :D

out of curiosity, if you are trying to build power, why would you pick mitts over the bag?

[SanHeChuan]

Originally Posted by SevenStar
out of curiosity, if you are trying to build power, why would you pick mitts over the bag?

Because people try to push the bag rather than strike. Also it's suppose to be a head punch not a body punch.

The heavy bag doesn't react like a persons body. I like it for conditioning but i wouldn't start someone off there to learn technique. I haven't done alot of bag work my self. When I was coming up we used those Shields to develop power.

[SanHeChuan]

Sevenstar, thanks for the examples.

I came across a couple a good (not great) articles on the subject.


http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/forcetraining.html
...Realize that you can produce huge amounts of force regardless of whether you're pushing against resistance or not. In fact, the net force created by an unloaded movement can be greater than with a loaded movement. A pitch thrown by a major league pitcher has more absolute force at impact than a heavy lift, yet pitchers aren't known for their abilities to lift big weights and vice versa. Let me explain. Remember that Force=Mass x Acceleration. Once you understand this it becomes clear that there are 3 ways of maximizing force output...


http://www.powerbasketball.com/040908.html
What are some safe plyometic exercises? Here are some that we incorporate into our athlete's workouts:
Lower Body
High knees
"Butt" kicks
Power skips
Squat jumps
Knee tucks
Split jumps
Crossovers
Box jumps (on to box only)
Lateral bounding
Broad jumps
Forward hops (over hurdles)
Lateral hops (over hurdles)
Jump rope (heavy rope)
"Speed" ladder

Upper Body/Core
Over / Under
Half twist (and full twist)
Push press
Shovel toss
Twist toss
Tornado" ball
Throw downs
Sit up throw
Push up (clap, step, or ball)