Wooden dummies that hit back!

[VStanmore]

You know the phrase "Boards don't hit back" but some CLF wooden dummies do!

I took this from an article on CLF wooden dummies, and it refers to the CLF breaking hand dummy:

"The emphasis is on training speed and lightning reactions to your opponent’s counterstrikes. As you strike the dummy harder and faster so too will the dummy counterattack harder and faster. A formidable opponent, the mastery of the sui sau jong requires not only speed and accuracy, but also a high level of concentration and awareness, as any break in concentration usually results in a painful blow from the dummy’s arm."

The following is about the horse dummy: "The dummy is designed to train a combination of speed, accuracy and power.

With the dummy’s unique moving parts, the harder and faster the practitioner attacks the dummy the harder and faster the dummy will counterattack. This ensures the dummy will be a challenge to even the strongest of students. Agility and awareness are essential in the use of this dynamic training tool and make this dummy effective for both offensive and defensive training."

And another quote: "The variety and uniqueness of Choy Lee Fut wooden dummies will always have an edge over other mechanical methods of training. Once the jongs are made and set up they will provide a convenient and safe way to practice. The aim of all training is to improve power, speed and accuracy. The jongs will give you all this and more."

So if I'm not mistaken, the specific combination of techniques you do on a particular CLF dummy, and based on the particular dummy's design and construction, will determine how it will counter attack you and so forces you to train a specific block in reaction or a duck, slip etc. So in effect, it trains both the mind and body. You have to concentrate and be aware to react to counter attacks with specific techniques executed, and it conditions the body for toughness and "reflex reaction" training!

Very clever thinking! Has anyone got any more information on other CLF wooden dummies? I would rather dig for it than try to re-invent the wheel! Imagine the amount of time and effort to put together a training dummy design and determine what combinations to practice to train technique and conditioning, and also pre-determine to train the (best?) counter to the dummy's counter attack.

Anyone find more info , please let us know.

[VStanmore]

Here is the link to the clf wooden dummies article:http://www.tai-chi-centre.com/woodendummies.htm

[hskwarrior]

thanks,

the hand breaking dummy is old news.

but, yeah, thanks. anyway.:confused:

[VStanmore]

Here is a link to a gallery where you will find pictures of some CLF wooden dummies:http://www.clfsd.com/gall/gall3.html
I think it will show a ching jong, sui sau jong (breaking hand dummy), and a practitioner on the wooden stakes Mui fah jong, and a bagua diagram on the floor.

Does anyone know what training the bagua diagram is used for?

[extrajoseph]

Hmm,

These photos are interesting, they showed manuscripts other than Chan Yiu-Chi's collection. There is a Kuen Po on the Lohan Sup Ba Kuen, which is an older name for the Lohan 18 Sou (Hands) and also medical texts and acupuncture points. So it is true what my old man told me that they use to train in medicine as well as kung fu. Pity we don't it any more.

http://www.clfsd.com/gall/gall1.html

[VStanmore]

EJ,
Thanks for the link. Yes very interesting kuen po manuscripts. Shame maybe many don't realise we have so much to learn from our predecessors already, some time, effort spent and work done already to lay a good foundation for the style if we have access to them it would be like standing on the shoulders of giants! Letting us see much further than those who refust to admit they are short.
Better dig for the treasures than try and re-invent the wheel! (Or maybe making things up and ramble ramble when they don't have a clue!)

[extrajoseph]

There is a photo showing Chen Yong-Fa in front of Chan Heung's grave. I have'nt seen it for 10 years. Lööks like they have the place cleaned up.

http://www.clfsd.com/gall/gall2.html

[extrajoseph]

Better dig for the treasures than try and re-invent the wheel! (Or maybe making things up and ramble ramble when they don't have a clue!)

Futsan with the help of people like Kong Hing and Leong Ji tried to re-invent history to promote Futsan as the birthplace of CLF with Jeong Yim as the founder.

They picked the wrong target not knowing CLF is one of the best recorded CMA system in China with the direct descendants still alive and actively teaching outside and inside China and there is the whole of King Mui, Sun Hui, Kong Moon and Canton behind them.

Futsan and Jeong Jim have no chance!

Poor Frank the foot soldier get caught up in this storm much bigger than his brain and limited knowledge can handle.

Good that we look to the positive side of things than trying to bash each other, after all we are all CLF!

Keep digging!

[hskwarrior]

the best recorded system???????

recorded by whom?

[hskwarrior]

:confused: wow joseph,

where have you been?

you are only know learning about that site?:confused:

but of course you always knew about it. sure;)

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

Obviou not recorded by you or by Futsan.

Have you got anything to show us?

Go and ask Kong Hing and Leong Ji, if they are almost 100, they must have something to show us that Jeong Yim was the founder and Futsan was the birthplace of CLF.

Go on, show us what you have got, you CLF historian!

EJ

[extrajoseph]

the best recorded system???????

recorded by whom?

Recorded by generations and generations of CLF practitioners who can read and write other than just fight with their bare fists with no brain!

[VStanmore]

Recorded by generations and generations of CLF practitioners who can read and write other than just fight with their bare fists with no brain!

EJ,
Good point! Did you see the ridiculous claim by some that Chan Heung was only a scholar and not a kung fu master? Just because Chan Heung was literate it doesn't mean he is not a kung fu master. Not all kung fu masters are illiterates!
In fact, Chan Heung left behind a manuscript on the art of choy lee fut fighting!

And didn't chan heung spend more time training and refining his skills than jeong Yim? So if Chan heung was not a kung fu master then what was jeong yim?

[extrajoseph]

What was Jeong Yim?

Jeong Yim was one of Chan Heung's students, and if Chan Heung was not a Kung Fu master, then I hate to think what Jeong Yim's kung fu would have been like.

[VStanmore]

What was Jeong Yim?

Jeong Yim was one of Chan Heung's students, and if Chan Heung was not a Kung Fu master, then I hate to think what Jeong Yim's kung fu would have been like.
Very good point EJ!

[VStanmore]

At the botom of the webpage in this link, there are more pictures of kuen po and drawing of at least one wooden dummy.

http://www.choyleefut.us/ChoyLeeFutKungFu.html

[VStanmore]

In this link there is a videoclip of part of the clf ching jong.

http://www.choyleefut.com.au/update/gallery.asp

[extrajoseph]

Thanks for the lead, now I can see what we do in CLF is different to Hung Sing Kuen and Fut Gar Jing Jong.

;)

[hskwarrior]

Leave our Jing Jong alone and go play with your own ding dong.

[VStanmore]

Thanks for the lead, now I can see what we do in CLF is different to Hung Sing Kuen and Fut Gar Jing Jong.

;)

:eek: :D :D :D :D

[extrajoseph]

Leave our Jing Jong alone and go play with your own ding dong.

Hi Frank,

You have ding dong in Fut Gar Jing Jong Too? Jeong Yim must have learned something from CLF Chan Heung even though he stayed only for a short time!

:eek:

[hskwarrior]

:eek: yeah, i think so!!!

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

Have you look at it lately? You could have dropped your balls!

:eek: :D :D

[VStanmore]

OK, back on topic.

I think around the 1970's there was a book in Hong Kong written by Ho Ngau who come's from the lineage of Chan Koon Pak. (Through Ngan yiu ting?)
It was supposedly about CLF wooden dummies.

Has anyone seen or have access to the book?
I would be interested in seeing what wooden dummies were covered in the book.
In fact, based on this quote from the wooden dummies article,

"Chan Heung’s son, Chan Koon-Pak, also made jong techniques one of his specialities and received full instructions from his father. While teaching in Guangzhou, Koon-Pak was approached by Choy Kwai-Yuan and his two sons to teach them the wooden dummy techniques. They had the space required for installing the various jongs in their home. Chan Koon Pak accepted their request and gave them the specifications to construct the jongs.

Once the construction and installation of the jongs was completed, other students of Koon-Pak also expressed an interest in learning the techniques and would gather at Choy’s house to practice every day. These students included outstanding past Choy Lee Fut Masters such as, Wong Fook, Ngan Yiu Ting,..."

So some of the students who learnt the wooden dummies included Wong Fook, Ngan yiu ting and Choy kwai-yuan and his two sons,.....and of course we would expect Chan yiu chi, son of Chan Koon Pak and the grandson of the founder of CLF, Chan Heung.
I think it would offer an interesting perspective from another angle if we have a look at what the book describes.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I have two copies of the book!

[JAZA]

Here are some pictures of the book of sifu Ho, Ngau from alecm site
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choileefut/hngau.htm

[VStanmore]

Here are some pictures of the book of sifu Ho, Ngau from alecm site
http://members.lycos.co.uk/choileefut/hngau.htm

Thanks for the link. Interesting picture of a wooden dummy. It reminds me of a rotating door. I wonder what dummy that particular one is? Is it one of the opening door dummy/ies?

[VStanmore]

I have two copies of the book!
Can you tell us what dummies are described in the book?
Better still, can you give us the pleasure of seeing some scanned pages or some pictures of the wooden dummy/ies?

[VStanmore]

Towards the end of this video clip, you can see some beautiful diagrams of Choy Lee Fut wooden dummies in a CLF manuscript!

http://www.masterspencer.org/video/clip_004.wmv

[Fu-Pow]

Some of those dummies look huge, were they actually ever built? Where did they put them?

From what I know of China their living quarters aren't usually very spacious with so many people.

I'm also wondering if people still actually know the forms for all of those dummies. Because think about it, you would need to have those dummies existing somewhere to practice on to remember the form.

[CLFNole]

Long ago I sent Howard Choy a PM about the same question. He indicated that many of the dummies were not built or around today. He didn't indicate whether or not they were years ago. I know certain ones are still around sand bag, ching jong, kwun jong and the sand bag one with the pulley system.

I would guess although I have no way of verifying this that the kuen po with the pictures might have some info on a set that goes along with it or it could be that you "freestyle" on them with various CLF theories and techniques.

XJ might have more to add on this.

[Fu-Pow]

The other thing about some of the bigger dummmies...wasn't CLF supposed to be a secret revolutionary kung fu style?

It's not like you could hide those monsters under a sheet.

Qing Officer: "Hey what's that thing under the sheet in the corner."

Chan Heung: "Uh, what thing?"

Qing Officer: "That big wood thing with all the wood spikes, ropes and metal things hanging off of it."

Chan Heung: "Uh...that's where my wife dries her laundry."

Qing Officer: "Oh...very well then, carry on."

;) :D

[VStanmore]

I'm also wondering if people still actually know the forms for all of those dummies. Because think about it, you would need to have those dummies existing somewhere to practice on to remember the form.

If I am not mistaken, there is a manuscript kuen Po for the (largest of them all??) Dai hoi mun jong form or large opening the door wooden dummy form of Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu.
The Dai hoi mun jong diagram should be the last one you see in the video clip.

I don't think any of the dummies are for "free styling". If I am not mistaken, they are there for specific training and they have a form to go with them.

[CLFNole]

Maybe the depictions of the larger dummies were passed down from Siu Lum Gee. It would make sense since it was large and said to have have the Hall of Wooden Men, which was a variety of dummies, traps, etc...

Yeah CLF is said to have 18 dummies but really how many are actually used and practiced with today? In the modern society we live in practicing with the ching jong will generally be good because you can train the kiu sow, footwork and a variety of techniques. This can also be done with the heavy bag (sa bau jong). The kwun jong would also be nice to practice on if you a staff nut like me; however I really don't see myself ever getting into a might with a long pole, except with the wife :eek: Hoo-ah.

[Fu-Pow]

however I really don't see myself ever getting into a might with a long pole, except with the wife :eek: Hoo-ah.

Don't you mean eyebrow height staff?
















J/K..;)

FP

[CLFNole]

If I don't shut up might turn into a 3-section staff :(

[VStanmore]

Took this from the AlecM website. Interestingly, it mentions there was a set up of training equipment including the wooden dummy by practitioners of CLF from Koon Pak's lineage. It also mentions some info about Ngan yiu ting, outstanding student of Chan Koon Pak. Chan Koon Pak was the son of the founder of Choy Lee Fut kung fu, Chan Heung.

Master Ho Ngau
This story of Master Ho Ngau comes from the book
Choy Lee Fut Wooden Dummy Techniques
by Leo Chu
Choy Lee Fut kung fu is said to have one of the largest followings in Hong Kong. This style also enjoys a worldwide reputation not surpassed by any others. Take Hong Kong for instance, there are countless number of Choy Lee Fut gymnasia, the biggest bodies include the World Choy Lee Put Headquarters and Choy Lee Fut Chan Heung Kung Memorial Association. Within the style, there are also divisions of Hung Sing (two of them), and Bak Sing (north). All these could cause confusion to the casual observer.
There is one person though Sifu Ho Ngau, who stands above these confusions and divisions Sifu Ho, is a well-respected senior leader of Choy Lee Fut. He is the first choice for senior office in many major Choy Lee Fut organisations He is also a mediator in any disputes as he has the knack of making molehill out of a mountain.
Sifu Ho Ngau was taught Ngan Yiu Ting in Canton. Ngan held a very high position in Choy Lee Fut, as he was the outstanding student of the style's second generation practitioner Chan Koon Pak. Apart from his kung fu ability, Noon was also a scholar and brilliant surgeon and practitioner of traditional Chinese osteopathyNgan and Ho Ngau's father were old friends. As a boy, Ho Ngau often accompanied his father in his frequent visits to Ngan's place. It was Ho Ngau's secret want wish to learn kung fu from Ngan. Ho Ngau's father was equally eager to have his son taught by Ngan Yiu Ting. Ngan readily accepted Ho senior's request and decided to teach the youngster.
Ngan thought highly of Ho Ngau. After some years of teaching, Ngan decided he would need more room to install more equipment including the - wooden dummy, so that he could teach Ho Ngau the Proper methods. A fellow practitioner solved Ngan's problem, as he was kind enough to let Ngan to install the equipment in his house. Ngan also requested Chan Koon Pak to take charge the tutoring of Ho Ngau and his other senior students.
Although Ho Ngau was the youngest amongst his follow Practitioners, he was well liked and received good guidance from his seniors. He rapidly, mastered all that was taught to him, which included the wooden dummy techniques and a variety of weapon techniques of the numerous number of students who followed Ngan Yiu Ting three of them were out standing. Ho Ngau was one of them.
After the passing any of Ngan, Ho Ngau opened a school himself and devoted his time to teaching and training and refining of his skill. Advent of the Japanese invasion of China caused the destruction of his valuable equipment. He left his home town and took up a post as an army kung fu instructor behind the enemy lines in 1962, Ho Ngau came to settle in Hong Kong. He was immediately asked to take up a teaching in the Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut Association's Gymnasium in Portland Street.
His students were mainly restaurant a worker. Other workers unions also keenly competed for Ho Ngau's service as instructor.
The lack of space in urban Hong Kong hindered Ho Ngau's teaching until he acquired a plot of land in rural New Territories. In his new establishment, Ho Ngau spared no expenses in installing the all the equipment he required. Amongst his many students, Lau Shun Mee is one of the more outstanding notable students his other students include Chan Yiu and Leung Kiu Fu who have also opened their own schools. Sifu Ho Ngau is in his advanced years, but he loses none of his zest, and is still active in the many in the many affairs of Choy Lee Fut kung fu: Sifu Ho Ngau remains as the most popular and respected leader of the style.

[extrajoseph]

Long ago I sent Howard Choy a PM about the same question. He indicated that many of the dummies were not built or around today. He didn't indicate whether or not they were years ago. I know certain ones are still around sand bag, ching jong, kwun jong and the sand bag one with the pulley system.

I would guess although I have no way of verifying this that the kuen po with the pictures might have some info on a set that goes along with it or it could be that you "freestyle" on them with various CLF theories and techniques.

XJ might have more to add on this.

Yeah, it would be too expensive and take up too much space to build some of the larger jongs. Besides we have virtual reality now, I am sure someone will come up with the idea of turning the trainings with the jongs into a virtual reality program like the way they train airline pilots these days. I would imagine the kuen pos will come in handy with the programmer.

[CLFNole]

Some of the diagrams of the larger dummies appear quite interesting and I would be curious to know the purpose for each and what theories and techniques were employed. I wonder if they were even built by Chan Heung or rather just drawings and depictions from those found in Siu Lum Gee. I am sure the keun po's would shed some light on the subject.

[extrajoseph]

The unique characteristics of these more advanced dummies are senstivity and response. Spring loaded and on wheels means you can feel the action and the reaction instantly. The fast you hit or charge the faster is the response so they approximate the real fighting situation better than a non-responsive ones.

Of course they cannot replace a real sparring partner with irrational behaviours and unpredictable surprises.

[Infrazael]

I don't give a crap about politics.

But you should ALL see what CLF is TRULY about here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1s7bz6vD5A&search=choy%20lay%20fut

[VStanmore]

That is the ching jong form from Chan Heung's family's Choy Lee Fut kung fu system.

In case someone comes along and claims it as hung sing kuen , from fut gar jing jung, or say it is one of the jongs for one of his hand sets.:D

[extrajoseph]

The video is taken inside the King Mui ancestral temple and that is Chen Yong-Fa's voice in the background and the guy smashing the ching jong is Jose Fernandez from Spain.

Frank, if you are passionate about CLF, at least check these guys out in person instead of just posting their video on your website and then bad mouth them.

They are your brothers and we can all trace our lineage back to King Mui and Chan Heung, so don't try to play polictics and split us with a new school, a birthplace and a new founder, it won't work!

CLF Yut Gar!

[hskwarrior]

joseph,

where did i bad mouth anyone's CLF?

You act like they are the best fighters in all of CLF?!

If i ever go to King Mui, i have no problem asking them to see the information they have on jeong yim. no problem.

[hskwarrior]

I'm not sure where Lee Yau San was, but Jeong Yim is in fut san , and Ching CHo was in Kwangxi on the Pak Pai San.

Only a part of Jeong Yim's gung fu can be traced back to king mui where jeong yim studied only 5 years with Chan Heung.

so only part of jeong yim can be traced back to king mui. the rest of him can be traced back to fut san.

[hskwarrior]

the longer you try to down play Jeong Yim.....

the longer i will upplay Jeong Yim.

simple as that. He deserves just as much credit.

[VStanmore]

The video is taken inside the King Mui ancestral temple and that is Chen Yong-Fa's voice in the background and the guy smashing the ching jong is Jose Fernandez from Spain.

Frank, if you are passionate about CLF, at least check these guys out in person instead of just posting their video on your website and then bad mouth them.

They are your brothers and we can all trace our lineage back to King Mui and Chan Heung, so don't try to play polictics and split us with a new school, a birthplace and a new founder, it won't work!

CLF Yut Gar!

Hi EJ,
If I get you the customers, can you MAKE UP gorilla form for them?

When is gorilla form next on Frank's "things to MAKE UP" for his hung sing kuen, from fut gar jing jung?

When is Choy Fook, Cheung sarm fung and wong fei hung next on Jeong Yim's list of "New teachers to be revealed"??

:D :D

A. That is because Futsan don't do CLF, they do Hung Sing Kuen from Fut Gar Jing Jung.
'If know the most possible method was called Fut Ga Jing Jong.'

:D :D

[Infrazael]

The video is taken inside the King Mui ancestral temple and that is Chen Yong-Fa's voice in the background and the guy smashing the ching jong is Jose Fernandez from Spain.

Frank, if you are passionate about CLF, at least check these guys out in person instead of just posting their video on your website and then bad mouth them.

They are your brothers and we can all trace our lineage back to King Mui and Chan Heung, so don't try to play polictics and split us with a new school, a birthplace and a new founder, it won't work!

CLF Yut Gar!

I would really like to learn with Chen Yong Fa; he seems like a very knowledgable Sifu being great-grandson of Chan Heung or whatnot.

Also I speak Mandarin and so far all the CLF teachers I have met are all Cantonese :p .

Mandarin would work much better.

[CLFNole]

He might speak mandarin but his native language is also cantonese.

[extrajoseph]

I would really like to learn with Chen Yong Fa; he seems like a very knowledgable Sifu being great-grandson of Chan Heung or whatnot.

Unfortunately, not according to Frank. Chan Heung and his 5 generations of descendants just made up their history and their forms. You had better go to Futsan and learn Fut Gar Jing Jung and Hung Sing Kuen.

[Infrazael]

Unfortunately, not according to Frank. Chan Heung and his 5 generations of descendants just made up their history and their forms. You had better go to Futsan and learn Fut Gar Jing Jung and Hung Sing Kuen.

Well Joseph I'm not fond of politics. You should that about me hehe.

To me CLF is CLF.

There are people out there with a WEALTH of knowledge and ability, and it's my job to seek those people out and extract the information from them.

To me Chen Yong Fa seems like a very good person and powerful CLF fighter. So does people I know from Buk Sing and Fut San Hung Sing.

As long as the training is alive and the contact is heavy, I'm ready to jump in. I like all three branches, and I'd train with anyone whose training methods are top notch. I would like the opportunity to learn Buk Sing, Chan, Hung Sing, everything.

CLF is a badass system, why not learn as much of it as possible? :cool:

Peace

[geordie]

OK, back on topic.

I think around the 1970's there was a book in Hong Kong written by Ho Ngau who come's from the lineage of Chan Koon Pak. (Through Ngan yiu ting?)
It was supposedly about CLF wooden dummies.

Has anyone seen or have access to the book?
I would be interested in seeing what wooden dummies were covered in the book.
In fact, based on this quote from the wooden dummies article,

"Chan Heung’s son, Chan Koon-Pak, also made jong techniques one of his specialities and received full instructions from his father. While teaching in Guangzhou, Koon-Pak was approached by Choy Kwai-Yuan and his two sons to teach them the wooden dummy techniques. They had the space required for installing the various jongs in their home. Chan Koon Pak accepted their request and gave them the specifications to construct the jongs.

Once the construction and installation of the jongs was completed, other students of Koon-Pak also expressed an interest in learning the techniques and would gather at Choy’s house to practice every day. These students included outstanding past Choy Lee Fut Masters such as, Wong Fook, Ngan Yiu Ting,..."

So some of the students who learnt the wooden dummies included Wong Fook, Ngan yiu ting and Choy kwai-yuan and his two sons,.....and of course we would expect Chan yiu chi, son of Chan Koon Pak and the grandson of the founder of CLF, Chan Heung.
I think it would offer an interesting perspective from another angle if we have a look at what the book describes. This may be of interest to you I am a student from 28 years ago of Chun Yuk Yui one of Ho Ngau's top three students when I used to train in Hong Kong I visited Ho Ngau gwoon in Fanling N.T. and met his wife, The jong from the book is from this gwoon it had the tradional iron weight on the arm as opposed to the more widely used spring and made a ringing sound when you hit it, the gwoon was an amazing place very large compared to my sifu's gwoon in Tai Kok Tsui which was just large enough to swing a cat. every year they have a party to celebrate Ho Ngau's birthday when sifu from all over the world used to come and demonstrate, I got to play in front of them a very nervously performed CLF set.Sifu Chan does not teach anymore and I am priveliged to say he was and still is my Sifu, an amazing teacher and an even more amazing man.

[ngokfei]

UFC:D

WOW his CLF must be good:p

[MistyStiker]

UFC:D

WOW his CLF must be good:p

What are you saying?

[hskwarrior]

misty....

what are you saying?

I don't understand.............If I execute a Sow Choy, but It wasn't taught to us from Chan Heung, then what........I'm not doing a CHOY LEE FUT SOW CHOY?

If not, then What am I doing?

You act as if CHan Heung NEVER created things for Choy Lee Fut.

In your eyes what makes CHAN HEUNG so special? If chan Heung didn't create things, then he isn't the founder of a system, all he did is take things from other systems and combine it.

But as i see it, Chan Heung developed his CHAN family CLF. He created and modified (probably many many times) a good amount of his CLF. He wasn't a god, or a kung fu genius, (or he could have been one of the MANY kung fu Genious"S) however he was just a man. nothing special, he couldn't fly, walk on water, levitate, or glow in the dark. Hell, no one can.

so once again, what is it that you think makes chan heung so incredibly incredible that it would be completely impossible for anyone to do what he did?

Maybe YOU couldn't create gung fu from what your were taught, but i KNOW i can.

see, you always be one of the ones left behind because you have no creative bone in your body. But, as with evolution, everyone improves whatever they learned, especially when the pass it on to someone else.

where you are wrong, is that there is a set method to CLF. THat's where you went wrong. You go right ahead and practice your chan family sets and hope that you can execute those moves from the sets in real life combat.

see, i can fight, and no.....chan heung didn't teach me that.

So, Misty you're all talk........do you know if Chan Heung's gung fu was originally accepted at it's time of inception?

[hskwarrior]

Of Course I Am Sifu Frank Mccarthy.............head Master Of The Hung Loong Kwoon, Senior Disciple Of Grand Master Dino "jew Tien Loong" Salvatera-head Master Of The Oldest Gung Fu School In The United States.

Yes I Am Very Proud To Say That I Come From Lau Bun's Lineage.

Did You Know That Lau Bun Was One Of The Most Authentic Masters Of His Time And Anyone That Ever Had The Chance To Meet Him Felt So?

So When You Try To Put Down Lau Bun, You Are Insulting Me, My Sifu, His Classmates, Sisooks, Si Baks, Si Bak Gungs, And So On, Including Doc Fai Wong.

Regardless, Lau Bun's Hs Clf Is Highly Regarded As Highly Effectice Gung Fu. That's All That Matters.

However, You Come From The Cut And Paste Style Where Your Founder Isn't Really The Founder Because The Wheel Was Already Invented Long Ago. He May Be The Cut And Paster, That's Fine And Dandy.

But If I Were You, I Would Stop Embarrassing My Sifu The Way You Are. If I Were Your Sifu You'd Be Long Gone With My Foot In Your Arse.......stuck Way Up There.....

So Far Up There You Need A Fireman's Latter To Climb Up There And Get It Out.