White snake spits its tongue

[lausan]

The yang style that i practice has the move White snake spits its tongue in the short form.
Is this move contained in other versions of the yang style?

Also does anyone know what generation this yang form is?

Cheers Lausan :confused:

[Sam Wiley]

White Snake Spits Out Tongue is in a lot of Yang style forms. I don't think it's specifically confined to the long forms. You'll have to give us a little more info before anyone can telly you what generation your form is, though.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[count]

My yang style, which is Tung style does not have a move called white snake spits it's tounge. Maybe Sam can expliane this move from "old" Yang style. Post a picture maybe. In Yin style baguazhang we have a move specifically called white snake spits it's tounge. It looks like this...

http://kabooom.com/images/shaokaimen/08.jpg

[Sam Wiley]

White Snake Spits Out Tongue is one of the moves we do after Fan Through Back. The other is Turn and Chop with Fist. I don't have any pictures of it myself, but there is one I know in Erle's book on the old Yang style that he has on his website.

Basically, you have just used Fan Through Back on someone, and you are attacked from behind by another person. You block his right punch with your left palm. Your right palms comes up inside you left and you strike him with a back palm to the face. Then you stick you left fingers into his eyes. Very simple, but very nice.

I'm still working on getting some photos to put up here instead of just writing. It would simplify things much more.

But anyway, that move is done in both the old and the new Yang styles.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[count]

hmmm, Are you saying that the move after fan through is a different move than turn and chop or the same move with a different name? I can see a similarity with the block and chop and the block and spit except with the leg wrapping and water energy in the strike.
:)

ps Sam, could you give the link to Erle's site, I don't think I have it. You could just click on the image button and give the address to his photo on his site to use it here.
:)

[This message was edited by count on 04-14-01 at 07:39 AM.]

[Water Dragon]

Do the posture i your picture from a front stance. In William CC Chen's long form, it is done instead of step up with parry and punch in the last third and then goes into ward off. It's a rubbing slice into the side of the neck.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[Sam Wiley]

Actually, the picture is in a book in pdf format on his site. So I don't think I could just do a link straight to the pic. But if you go to the full index of his site (there's a link to it on the main page), and then go to the free stuff page from there, you can download the book in 4 parts. I forget which section it's in, but it's in maybe section two or three of the book.

Erle's site:
http://www.taijiworld.com

Yes, though, that move is done two different ways, once as Turn and Chop, and the next time as Snake Spits Tongue. Same body movement and stepping, but different hand movements.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[khinbu]

In my style, Baishe tuxin is done after the 2nd Gao Tan Ma (High pat horse). The sequence is Danbian (single whip), Yunshou (cloud hands), Danbian, Gao Tan ma (high pat horse), Baishe Tuxin (White snake spits its tongue), Shizi Baijiao (cross shaped sweep foot, slapping right instep with left palm while kicking in crescent shape), Zhidang chui (point Dang/crotch fist), etc.

Wish for peace

[count]

I just got home from class and I see snake spits it's tounge in Yang Form. I'm still trying to differentiate between High Pat on Horse movement but it seems to be more of an eye strike or something. I like it very much! :) :) :)

[Ky-Fi]

Sam posted:
"Basically, you have just used Fan Through Back on someone, and you are attacked from behind by another person. You block his right punch with your left palm. Your right palms comes up inside you left and you strike him with a back palm to the face. Then you stick you left fingers into his eyes. Very simple, but very nice."

I think the way I've been taught is somewhat different than Sam's. After Fan Back, you're attacked from behind, and you rotate clockwise 180 degrees. What we do is sweep our right hand down and away(waist level) with the turn to clear out the attack, and then the left hand attacks to the head or upper body with fingers or a palm strike. I sort of envision it as defending against a punch or kick to the lower body as you turn, and then striking with the left.

[MaFuYee]

what is all this talk of, 'i think it's used to poke somebody in the eye...' (said in nasally, sissy voice.)

what happened to your, '1 posture, 10,000 applications' theory?

doesn't that make the discussion of applications a moot point?

DoD #pending
Live to Flame
Flame to Live

[Water Dragon]

MA you bastid. Just havet to start trouble don't ya. Can't just let it go huh? :D

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[count]

Hey, what can I say. If it weren't for the specific split in the fingers I was shown it might be one of the dozens of applications for High Pat but this spit is really only good for eyes. Are the rest of you told the fingers should split on the spit?
MaFuYee, you are a trouble maker and your closmindedness lost all 4 of us in the previous discussion on applications. Get a clue dude. Want to discuss something constructively. Don't be so quick to assume you are right and the rest of the world is wrong. Open your mind to the possibilities!1@

[Water Dragon]

OOOHHHHH!!!! I like it!!

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[Sam Wiley]

Count,
Do you mean seeing something similar to the posture you posted a picture of? If so, that movement would probably be Inspection of Horse's Mouth. Inspection is a snake move, definitely, sort of like the tongue darting out. Is the posture you posted done darting the hand forward?

In an interesting sidenote, in Yang style Taiji, we do High Pat on Horse just before Snake Spits Tongue, both going into the same direction. In the original Wudang Taiji forms (in the 4th form specifically) we do High Pat, and then spin around 180 degrees to do Snake Spits Tongue.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[count]

The photo posted above (from bagua, not tai chi) the palm is darting forward. Like I said, similar in application but different in energy. Water as opposed to earth. This is one of my favorites because of the legs. Wrapping and striking simultaniously.
˝

[MaFuYee]

ma's pickin on me... :(
he's just a big bully!
i'm gonna go and tell my mommy!

DoD #pending
Live to Flame
Flame to Live

[count]

Waste!

[JWTAYLOR]

I like it most as a defense against an uppercut. The downward motion of one arm strikes the upcomming uppercut at the forearm and down to the elbow pit while the other hand moves up and into their throat.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Sam Wiley]

Yes. An extremely good application, JWT. One of the original Wudang push hands methods also uses this move. It's called the Nun, and the movement is where not only Inspection of Horse's mouth but also Nun Offers Food comes from. A **** good application.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[MaFuYee]

force against force = good application ?!?!

DoD #pending
Live to Flame
Flame to Live

[Sam Wiley]

Ma Fu Yee,
No, not force against force necessarily. If you slap down the forearm on the inside with one hand it coils you for the strike as well as absorbs his energy with Rollback. If you go up the outside of the forearm (as I prefer, and as the original push hands methods teach), then you expand into him, redirecting his force, pinning his arm to his side, and putting you in the optimum position for an attack. Doing it against the inside, you really coil up for the strike, but he may have time to reattack. Doing it up the outside of his arm at the elbow, you can expand and strike in the same motion rather than have to coild first. But you can still coil if you want to do it that way, striking forward with one hand and then the other. I don't advise using the Rollback type of block on the outside, as he could fold and reattack with a backfist or something like that. So neither one of them really use force against force, as they follow Taiji principles.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[MaFuYee]

jeezus! reading that just gave me a headache!

DoD #pending
Live to Flame
Flame to Live

[Kaitain(UK)]

I asked my teacher about this as the two seemed identical to me

however, if you look in the book 'Mastering Yang style Taiji' by that 'Z-name' guy (Zhuang Fu I think) there is a difference. In Snake your right hand is open as opposed to in a fist in cross hands

BUT - they are both performed with an open hand now in Ip Tai Tak's long form.

I don't have the book to hand at the moment but I'm 90% sure I got it the right way round

however, I just realised I'm talking about turn around and block, versus cross hands. Excuse my ignorance :)

"one room, many keys"

[GeneChing]

Legacy of a tai chi master
Followers reflect on how the martial art helped them 60 years after Tung Ying-chieh's death (https://asia.nikkei.com/Life-Arts/Life/Legacy-of-a-tai-chi-master)

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F8%252F0%252F3%252F3%252F342 73308-1-eng-GB%252F20210519%2520TaiChiMain.jpg?width=700&fit=cover&gravity=faces&dpr=2&quality=medium&source=nar-cms
Mak Tai-kwong, 90, pictured during his working days at Hong Kong's She Wong Lam snake soup shop. He credits a lucky break there in 1948 as having changed his life.
MATHEW SCOTT, Contributing writer
May 23, 2021 08:00 JST
HONG KONG -- Ninety-year-old Mak Tai-kwong looks and moves like a man decades younger. He attributes tai chi to saving his life and prolonging it.

In 1948, when the people of Hong Kong were struggling with chronic food shortages in the aftermath of World War II and work was scarce even for those willing and able, Mak said a lucky break at the She Wong Lam snake soup shop in the then-portside suburb of Sheung Wan changed his life.

"I was very weak, and had no food to eat," said Mak who was 18 in 1948. "Life was hard but I got the job selling snake soup and the snake shop owner saw how weak I was and he paid for me to learn tai chi. In 1948, I started learning Yang style tai chi, and I learned from Tung Ying-chieh, and that's why I am still here today."

This year marks the 60th death anniversary of Tung (1897-1961), who helped take the Yang style of tai chi to the world as it became arguably the most popular form of the martial art practised. Apart from Hong Kong actor Donnie Yuen and his Chinese peer Jet Li, American rock star Lou Reed, of Velvet Underground fame, was also a famous tai chi student.

In December, the centuries-old practice of tai chi -- or taijiquan in Mandarin -- was officially recognized by UNESCO as an "intangible cultural heritage." There are five main schools of the martial art -- Chen, Wu Hao, Wu, Sun and Yang.


https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F_aliases%252****icleimage%2 52F1%252F6%252F4%252F3%252F34273461-1-eng-GB%252F20210519%2520TaiChi1.jpg?source=nar-cms
https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F_aliases%252****icleimage%2 52F0%252F1%252F4%252F3%252F34273410-1-eng-GB%252F20210519%2520TaiChi2.jpg?source=nar-cms
Top: Tung Ying-chieh (seated) established tai chi schools in Hong Kong before taking his teachings to other cities in Asia. Bottom: One such tai chi school was in Bangkok, Thailand.
Tai chi is estimatedto be practiced daily by hundreds of millions of people globally. But back in the 1940s, tai chi was unheard of outside China.

A generation of tai chi masters had over the two decades after WWII gravitated south to Hong Kong from across China to escape political upheavals that led to civil war in the country. Tung was one of them.

Tung, a disciple of Yang Ch'eng-fu (1883-1936), helped develop the Yang style of tai chi based on the teachings of the founders of the martial art -- the Chen family in central Henan Province -- that evolved from combat skills and self-defense (considered to be external to the body) to heath and meditative benefits (internal).

In the early days, Tung had a reputation as a bruiser. Legend has it that Tung took on and beat a British boxer who dwarfed him in size in Nanjing in the 1930s. He then shared his winnings among fans and fellow martial artists.

After seeing out the war in the relative safety of Macao, which was then neutral territory as a Portuguese colony, Tung started opening tai chi schools in Hong Kong.

Now his "empire" extends to the U.S. "He had great teachers, with a lot of skill," explained Tung's great-grandson Alex Dong, who runs the Alex Dong International Taijiquan Association of more than 100 teachers from New York City.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F_aliases%252****icleimage%2 52F9%252F5%252F3%252F3%252F34273359-1-eng-GB%252Ftaichi.jpg
https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%253A%252F%252Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%252Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%252Fimages%252F_aliases%252****icleimage%2 52F2%252F1%252F5%252F3%252F34273512-1-eng-GB%252F20210519%2520TaiChi3.jpg?source=nar-cms

Top: Scenes from one of the many tai chi guide books authored by Tung Ying-chieh (middle). Bottom: Tung travelled regularly to meet with his students to help them master the art of tai chi.
Tung's fighting days were over by the time he opened his Hong Kong schools, and had started to travel through Asia to share his more peaceful methods, although he still enjoyed the thrill of a battle.

On Jan. 17, 1954, Tung helped organize and played the role of ringside referee for an infamous "Death Duel," the lead-up to which had held Hong Kong in its grip. It was staged between Tung's tai chi student Wu Gongyi and a student of the “white crane” style of kung fu, Chen Kefu, after weeks of press hype.

After less than two tepid rounds of action, a draw was called but the true purpose of the fight was served. According to local media, including the South China Morning Post, more than 200,000 Hong Kong dollars ($35,000) had been raised for the 50,000 victims of a fire that had recently ripped through the Shek Kip Mei squatter village in Hong Kong.

After less than two tepid rounds of action, a draw was called but the true purpose of the fight was served. More than 200,000 Hong Kong dollars had been raised for the 50,000 victims of a fire that had recently ripped through the Shek Kip Mei squatter village in Hong Kong.

"We all knew he was strong but he was a very kind man, amiable and very approachable," recalled Mak in Victoria Park. "He was quite a solemn person, not easily angered."

Tai chi's recognition by Unesco took close to a decade of lobbying from China, and from followers of the form. Dong said it was long overdue.

"When people practice tai chi they always tell me they feel better," Dong said. "I always tell my students tai chi is one of the few exercises that teaches you about you. It gives you the chance to feel your own thoughts, recognize you own movement and your way of thinking."

Among those daily participants in Victoria Park is 65-year-old Fanny Tung-cheng, who was married to Tung's great grandson Tung Kwai-sun before he passed away in 1994.

"Yang tai chi is popular because it is based on a fighting style and also it is basic," she said. "Practising every day keeps you active and healthy and that's the way we should all live our lives."

threads
Chinese-food (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?16444-Chinese-food)
White-snake-spits-its-tongue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?4153-White-snake-spits-its-tongue)

[No_Know]

I would like to communicate relevantly. Lausan(?ish), Yang 32 uses a dragon step, with arms moving in a spitting fashion. Khinbu brought a second place in Y24TJQ. By 2nd place I mean second mention. It has 1st place in occurring. The one mainly mentioned for a non-long form is after Opening-in-a-Flash-Fan.

TJQ48mixed has a Spitting

The competition forms or simplifieds are different from the techniques of the Styles hence, simplified. Three Rings Circle the Moon in the 32 mixed has a Dragon step. There is no Dragon step in Yang Taijijian (Taiji sword) form, in the beginning.

Different applications yes. But to make a form there is an initial specific application. In-the-mix and on-the-fly wing-it, but have a base-a foundation, an origin, from which to have varieties.

I see where 24 from fan to parry-punch has a sinking spiral silk-reeling energy? But the form is Bow and arrow shift, bow for arrow and arrow for bow. Settle back to cat then Hsing-Yi like palm with punch.

Before the kicks and after the High Pat on Horse is a Dragon step with left strike over right wrist this might be spitting.

You could do Spitting Dragon or Spitting Snake move after fan and during parry, but it is not officially in the general shorter form [1950's], one might find.


I No_Know

[No_Know]

This video uses titles in English and Chinese. The names in English do not always seem to be the Chinese. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-YK7ptckQ (4. Black Dragon Spits Out Pearl). But in Yang's twenty four taijiquan form The name I have associated with this move is, "Brush Knee and Push"...But whether it be 32 mixed taijisword, Yang's Taijiquan 24 short after the opening fan or after "High Pat on Horse" "What's in a name. That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."-Juliet, 'Romeo And Juliet'; Act 2 Scene 2, -William Shakespeare...

Wrong name, rename, variation name...Done by anybody with any accountability-I am gathering that it will relate to a move of exchange--a withdrawing-pulling move on one side. A push, thrusting, shove, spearing move on the other...A revealed strike synchronized with a deflecting or pulling application move. I might include "Repulse Monkey," and "High Pat on Horse" as spitting moves.-Ernie Moore
Jr.

No_Know

[YinOrYan]

I might include "Repulse Monkey," and "High Pat on Horse" as spitting moves.-Ernie Moore Jr.


They very likely could have been spitting moves long ago before the moves were turned into tai chi. There are still traces of it in the Wu 108 repulse the monkey, and the same with repulse the monkey kicking. That video is technically correct but one can tell she has little, if any, background in kung fu. Forms maybe, but probably not applications nor sparring. I do like how she avoids the left and right from touching each other. I also do it that way to build up more energy...