What is Chan/zen?

[SPJ]

Chan/zen is misused nowadays to promote a service or a product.

Zen spa, Zen tea, Zen massage, Zen food, Zen dating--

So what is Chan or Zen?

:D

[SPJ]

In the old time, there will be a room, a garden or some quiet place that one would practice Chan/zen meditation.

either quieting the mind or focusing on a certain subject in life.

how to relate one's life experience with other things in the nature.

so chan is filled with stories or direct experiences.

:)

[EarthDragon]

its a philosophy and way of looking at life. Some say a lifestyle or religion.

I still say philosophy but who am I ????????

wait thats a Zen question... OK never mind

[SPJ]

My favorite are the 3 stories of Chan.

1. Throw the stone to ask for the way. Tou Shi Wen Lu.

a. if you are surrounded by opponents, you throw a stone in one direction to attrack their attention, then you run the other way.

b. if you are not sure about the enemy positions or number of people, you send a small force to move obviously, to cause them to move. Then you have some idea about their positions and forces.

c. you taste some sample before you buy the fruits or wines. you test drive the car, before you buy it etc.

2. Ask the fairy for the way. Xien Ren Zi Lu.

if we do not know what to do, sometimes we may look for a sign, religion, or some knowledgeable people to lead us to the right way in life or tasks at hand. The more knowledgeable or skillful people or gods are called Xien Ren.

in the old time, there were no good direction signs or maps. if you are lost in the woods or wild. Legend said there may be a fairy disguised as fisherman, wood chopping man etc and guide you. usually they maybe just the locals.

3. The blind leading the blind. Mon Ren Dai Lu.

there are a lot of things we don't fully understand. so after some meditations and experiences in life. we are humbled that we dun really know about life. we may not want to give people the wrong guidance as if a blind man leading another blind man.


:D

[SimonM]

So what is Chan or Zen?

:D

Kill kill kill

or, if you prefer,

moo

[BruceSteveRoy]

chan/ zen buddhism is based on the concept of spontaneous enlightenment. the concept permeates in the mahayana buddhism whereas the theravada believe in a process that leads to enlightenment. Enlightenment being similar to the western concept of self actualization as described in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. (or so it has been described to me).

[PangQuan]

nothing...

[el shaitan]

5 tons of flax!

[GeneChing]

three catties of hemp (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=622873&postcount=10)!

[SimonM]

I'm down with that action Gene. ;)

Now, seriously, Ch'an was more about the transmission of the dharma through unconventional, non-verbal methods than it was about instant enlightenment. The concept of sudden enlightenment is actually present in all of the Mahayana sects of Buddhism. Heck! In Pure Land buddhism all you had to do was recite the name of the right buddha at least once before you died and you would be reborn in the pure land in your next incarnation and on the fast-track to enlightenment. Compared to that Ch'an is really hard work. The argument of Ch'an was that you couldn't talk your way to enlightenment. Instead you had to shock yourself or your students out of the patterns of thought that dominate the ordinary life in order for them to grasp the truths of Buddhism at a more fundamental level. Many tools such as the koans, the bizarre, nonsensical answers to questions and (as Gene pointed out) chemicals could be employed to bring about this shift in consciousness. However once a person is shocked out of those patterns the next step is having a revelatory experience. This is where the use of psychadelics can, as Gene said, slow us down. We might believe ourselves to be on the verge of a revelation after taking a few hits from the bong only to lose any insight we may have gained again when we come back down.

The Rastafarians don't believe this to be such a problem and so use a mild psychadelic as a religious saccrament despite forgoing red meat and alcohol while most ch'an/zen monks these days forgo the use of hemp for anything except making clothes out of and instead depend more on the more socially acceptable ways of shifting their consciousness... backbreaking hard work, artistry and meditation.

[SPJ]

nothing...

there are 2 monks at the side of a stream. A woman came by and needed help to cross the river.

So the monk A carried the woman across the stream with her permission.

monk B said why did you carry her? monks are not supposed to be close to the wimmin, is it not?

monk A said I already put her down and why did you not?

meaning monk A only thought about helping her. She was not on his mind in the beginning and after they crossed the stream.

however, monk B is stilling thinking about her even after she left.

--

act and intent

--

:D

[SimonM]

Good example.

[Crushing Fist]

searching for the meaning of life is like riding an ox...




























in search of an ox

[SPJ]

that is deep but why the space out?

;)

[Crushing Fist]

its a dramatic pause :p

[dwid]

A favorite zen poem of mine, by Yuan Hongdao...

The time has come to devote myself to my hiker's stick;
I must have been a Buddhist monk in a former life!
Sick, I see returning home as a kind of pardon.
A stranger here - being fired is like being promoted.
In my cup, thick wine, I get crazy drunk,
Eat my fill, then stagger up the mountain.
The southern sect, the northern sect, I've tried
them all:
This hermit has his own school of zen philosophy.

[David Jamieson]

there's bird scat on the handle of my car door

[David Jamieson]

Chan/zen is misused nowadays to promote a service or a product.

Zen spa, Zen tea, Zen massage, Zen food, Zen dating--


Ch'an / Zen probably doesn't care about being misused to promote positive things such as listed. The concept is invocation of another deeper meaning which without being voiced is more or less understood.

zen tea invokes an idea of calm, mellow, aware and so on and therefore is not really all that culpable as far as misuse goes. :p same with the other examples, with the exception of the dating one which even I am having difficulty with. lol.

Having said all that, if I had to explain verbally what Ch'an or Zen is, then I would defer to the generally accepted idea of it as being - ...described as an intuitive method of spirtual training aimed at the discovery of a reality in the innermost recesses of the soul, a reality that is the fundamental unity which pervades all the differences and particulars of the world. This reality is called the mind, or the Buddha nature that is present in all sentient beings. In common with other Mahayana systems Ch'an teaches that this reality is sunya, empty or void, inexpressible in words and inconceivable in thought.-

[GeneChing]

Chinese Archery. A Brief Discussion on Shaolin Ch'angong's Concept and Practice of Health Preservation Part 1 (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1664) by Chen Haidong and Qi Shilong

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/6465_Shaolin-Chanqong1_Lead.jpg

Archery (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?66419-Archery)
What-is-Chan-zen (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41536-What-is-Chan-zen)
Chinese-Archery-lost-martial-art (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?37406-Chinese-Archery-lost-martial-art)

[GeneChing]

Shaolin Archery. A Brief Discussion on Shaolin Ch'angong's Concept and Practice of Health Preservation Part 2 (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1666) by Chen Haidong and Qi Shilong

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/4493_Shaolin-Chanqong2_Lead.jpg

Archery (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?66419-Archery)
What-is-Chan-zen (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41536-What-is-Chan-zen)
Chinese-Archery-lost-martial-art (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?37406-Chinese-Archery-lost-martial-art)