Exceptional CLF lineage from Chan Koon Pak in SF

[VStanmore]

I posted a selection from the wooden dummies article in other thread:

Chan Heung’s son, Chan Koon-Pak, also made jong techniques one of his specialities and received full instructions from his father. While teaching in Guangzhou, Koon-Pak was approached by Choy Kwai-Yuan and his two sons to teach them the wooden dummy techniques. They had the space required for installing the various jongs in their home. Chan Koon Pak accepted their request and gave them the specifications to construct the jongs.

Once the construction and installation of the jongs was completed, other students of Koon-Pak also expressed an interest in learning the techniques and would gather at Choy’s house to practice every day. These students included outstanding past Choy Lee Fut Masters such as, Wong Fook, Ngan Yiu Ting,

As the article will inform us, students who trained the CLF jongs with Chan Koon Pak were Choy kwai yuan and his two sons, wong Fook, ....and Ngan YIU Ting.

Ngan Yiu Ting was an outstanding student of Choy Lee Fut's second generation keeper Chan Koon Pak, and received instruction in the CLF Jongs (wooden dummies). This elder had a strong following of students in Boon Tong Of Guangzhou in southern china, and the lineage is still going strong today in that area. He was an excellent martial artist and very close to the chan heung's family. Known also as one of the "later ten tigers" of Guangzhou, this elder was known to generate so much power in his pole technique that the opponent sustained wrist fractures!

Some selection from AlecM website that mentions this elder of CLF:

Sifu Ho Ngau was taught Ngan Yiu Ting in Canton. Ngan held a very high position in Choy Lee Fut, as he was the outstanding student of the style's second generation practitioner Chan Koon Pak. Apart from his kung fu ability, Noon was also a scholar and brilliant surgeon and practitioner of traditional Chinese osteopathy
Ngan and Ho Ngau's father were old friends. As a boy, Ho Ngau often accompanied his father in his frequent visits to Ngan's place. It was Ho Ngau's secret want wish to learn kung fu from Ngan. Ho Ngau's father was equally eager to have his son taught by Ngan Yiu Ting. Ngan readily accepted Ho senior's request and decided to teach the youngster.
Ngan thought highly of Ho Ngau. After some years of teaching, Ngan decided he would need more room to install more equipment including the - wooden dummy, so that he could teach Ho Ngau the Proper methods. A fellow practitioner solved Ngan's problem, as he was kind enough to let Ngan to install the equipment in his house. Ngan also requested Chan Koon Pak to take charge the tutoring of Ho Ngau and his other senior students.

I wonder how many people here know of this exceptional elder of Choy Lee Fut kung fu. Apart from Chan Yiu Chi, son of Chan Koon Pak and 3rd generation keeper of the style, Ngan Yiu Ting's lineage is ONE of THE VERY BEST from Chan Koon Pak. Ngan Yiu ting's son was Ngan wun long.....and guess what?

Ngan yiu ting's grandson, Ngan cho keung is now in San Francisco!!I think his website is down, but if I'm not mistaken, he should have a Choy Lee Fut school in SF. You privileged people of San Francisco!!

Does any one here train with Sifu Ngan? If you do, could you inquire for us what CLF jongs (wooden dummies) training was like with his grandfather Ngan Yiu Ting?
Would be very interesting!!

A great chance to learn from a teacher of a great lineage !
Privileged people at SF!:)

[hskwarrior]

didn't Ngan Yiu Ting get beat up by Tam Sam?

oh wait it was more that just Ngan Yiu Ting, his brothers were there too.

[hskwarrior]

I actually stepped up on Ngan Cho Keung. So did someone from my school on another occasion. but it was settled peacefully.

See, Ngan Cho Keung said some negative things about one of Lau Bun's students who was pretty old and still performing CLF. When I caught him laughing and stepped up to him at one of the Tai Chi's in the park. He made some comments on how he could take the staff of one of Lau Bun's students who was much much older than him. I didn't appreciate him talking smack for no reason and asked if he wanted to try and take away my staff. I have one of my old students who was learning stick fighting from me and was one of Lau Bun's students as well was there to witness it.

For anyone who wants to know, Ngan Cho Keung's school in at 8 Old Chinatown Lane in SF's Chinatown. Go with a translatore because they are weary of people stopping by their place.

They practice in some green uniforms.:D

[CLFNole]

One thing that I don't always agree with is that just becuase someone in your family was good it means you are good. I am not taking anything away from anyone but just becuase you don't come from a direct line it doesn't mean your kung fu is inferior or your lineage for that matter.

My sifu, Lee Koon Hung had three daughters who have next to zero kung fu talent, but you bet your arse if we opened a school promoting that LKH's daughters who were trained from birth are passing on his art, the nuts would come in droves.

While yes you can be very good if someone in your family is good, which is apparent with Chan Sifu it is not a certainty.

Peace.

[extrajoseph]

Agree with you completely and that is why Koon Pak made it and his brother didn't, Yiu Chi made it and his brother didn't, Wan Hong Made it and his brother didn't and Yong Fa made it and his brothers didn't.

[CLFNole]

XJ:

I thought On Pak was also an accomplished practioner who just died young?

Also Chan Sifu's cousins in Sun Wui/King Mui, whose children are they exactly?

[extrajoseph]

didn't Ngan Yiu Ting get beat up by Tam Sam?

oh wait it was more that just Ngan Yiu Ting, his brothers were there too.

Hi Frank,

Have you heard the other side of the story? Of course not, otherwise you would not have talked rubbish.

Tam Sam beat up Ngan Yiu-Ting and 10 of his brothers and 20 of their students and then he rapped all their wives, concubines and girlfriends afterward.

He then passed on his In and Out Bak Gwa skill to his teacher Jeong Yim (wink, wink) and that was how the Futsdan Hung Sing got the form.

Get your facts right before you open your mouth!

:D

[extrajoseph]

XJ:

I thought On Pak was also an accomplished practioner who just died young?

Also Chan Sifu's cousins in Sun Wui/King Mui, whose children are they exactly?

On Pak did not died young, he just did not have any male offsprings. Chen Yong Fa has a large family because his father has a brother and a sister as well. Then there are the more immediate family members and the Chan clansmen as well.

[hskwarrior]

so, joseph,

you are going to say that the incident didn't happen?

or that it didn't happen the way someone says it did?

If it didn't happen, then please explain why the Buk Sing Kwoon talks about how he defeated them for whatever the reasons were?

[hskwarrior]

Joseph,

you are chan clan.

can you tell me, if CLF was being taught in King Mui already....

then why did the Chan Family's youngest Great Grand son take Doc Fai Wong as a sifu? Why did the Chan Family allow that to happen?

could it have been due to money? I know he is helping to rebuild Chan Heung's old house.

[hskwarrior]

However, Joseph,

isn't it in Chan Family history that Chan on Pak died young?

I believe that's why most people think on pak died young.

[CLFNole]

Frank:

I have heard it both ways:

1) Tam Sam defeated Ngan Yiu Ting
2) Ngan Yiu Ting defeated Tam Sam

None of us were there so who really knows? Frankly who really cares?

[hskwarrior]

i just wanted to know. that's all.

has anyone ever seen Ngan Cho Keung's gung fu?

[hskwarrior]

that's what i like about SF.

its the only place in the U.S. that teaches all three branches of CHoy Lee Fut.

how cool is that?

one day maybe i'll learn all three branches.;)

[CLFNole]

That is what I would do if I were you. With your sifu's blessing of course if you have learned basically all he has to teach to you, why not go out and learn/experience other aspects or views of CLF. This is what the masters of old did, they followed a variety of people (in a much more civil manner I might add). It could only make your CLF better.

My sifu now always encourages Sow Choy or myself to train with our sisuks/sihings in HK as well as others we are friends with such as Sifu Chow Keung of the Tai Sing Pek Kwar Mun style. I have learned a few sets from other branches and it is nice to get a different perspective on CLF from the way I was taught.

Just my 2 cents.

[hskwarrior]

the last part is true CLFNOLE.

I've done butterfly knives many times before, but it wasn't until i picked up Latosa Escrima that i got a totally better understanding of how to use them.

Outside observations into how you approach your CLF is good.

One thing we didn't learn in CLF was not to over do a block or something. You just do what you do and go on to the next thing. From what i learned in Escrima is zoning. You have a zone in front of you and nothing gets in. if he throws a fake and you go for it, the zone will dictate your move. you can either attempt the block and go into your next move right away, or recover without over extending your protected areas.

So i do understand what you are talking about.

[CLFNole]

I just think with all around you in the Bay area it would be easy to take advantage of it. It all depends on the person though, some just like to follow one sifu and do things one way, which is fine, while others wish to expand their knowledge with other influences. Whatever floats your boat. :D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I agree. Training in all branches is best. There are really not as many differences between them as people think. For the most part, I think it's more political. My Sifu taught me sets from all brances (as he trained with somewhere between 3-6 differenct CLF masters) and I like them all.

What is making the branches MORE different today, is this bickering.

[Mano Mano]

From what i learned in Escrima is zoning. You have a zone in front of you and nothing gets in. if he throws a fake and you go for it, the zone will dictate your move. you can either attempt the block and go into your next move right away, or recover without over extending your protected areas.
Frank that’s exactly what I discovered when I started learning Doce Pares eskrima and also how some of the Filipino stick techniques can parallel CLF empty hand techniques

[hskwarrior]

to tell you the truth is that I am forbidden and I willingly follow this, to learn other hand systems inside my sifu's school. that's where we learned the escrima.

but the reason why I stopped learning the Stick fighting is because the conflicts of the hand system which in latosa escrima is either wing chun or mantis.

I am CLF and will only do CLF hands.

that is why i went on to put together the Tien Loong Bai Mei (Heavenly Dragon Slashes it's tail). It applies so much to CLF and when combined with CLF footwork and hands the stick system turned out to be pretty effective.

Mano Mano, i'm glad you see the benefit in learning escrima to offset your CLF. It brings you right back to CLF doesn't it?

[hskwarrior]

CLFNOLE,

I'm happy to see you and others say that.

Because the way i see it, hopefully in the future students will teach CLF as one big whole, instead of having three branches. That is why on www.clfhistory3fam.zoomshare.com i put all three founders of each branch together.

in the Future, i would like to see all 3 founders looked upon as the founders of the most incredible system of Chinese gung fu. A system that has one of the most incredible histories, techniques and such.

But the only way that will happen is when the ball gets rolling.

And to tell the truth, I am working on what I'm calling "Modern Day Choy Lee Fut".
in it I plan to ONE DAY teach things like Sam Ga Ping Kuen, Sam Ga Sup Gee Kuen, and so on. what i mean by that is take a set like Ping Kuen and take all three brances versions and turning it into one.

but that is still in the future.

[Mano Mano]

Mano Mano, i'm glad you see the benefit in learning escrima to offset your CLF. It brings you right back to CLF doesn't it?
full circle