Footwork

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey again,
I'm curious if anyone has any footwork drills that they would care to share. Different ways they break down footwork, maybe exercises outside of wing chun that they've noticed has helped with their coordination, speed, balance etc.
Maybe sparring, is the best way to get the kinks out :confused:

Thanks,

J

[Jeff Bussey]

Just found this article and thought that it's relevant to this thread.

http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym26.htm


Also, a while back I talked about getting shin splints. I found out something that I'm hoping will help. I was talking to a guy I know who's been boxing for a bit and also does a lot of rope jumping, which I like to do. He told me that one of the big reasons people get shin splints is from lack of cushion in their shoes at the toe. I'm going to go with him to get a good pair of shoes and I'll let you know if it makes a difference for me.

J

[stricker]

cheers those ross articles are always good ill check that one out later.

i found boxing slipping drills and thai kicking drills good for footwork as you ALWAYS have to be in perfect balance eg must be able to go left or right or block/kick with your left leg or your right leg. so if your slightly off balance too much to one side or too forward or too far back you can get away with it always going the same way but when you mix it up it catches up with you.

i also found wrestling pummelling, thai clinch stuff and judo somethinginjapanese helped me understand better balance and pushing pulling etc from contact in a different way to chi sao so the exposure has helped me.

also we train barefoot but a lot of people use anklets for support. i really like training barefoot now although the layoff from training means when i go back i get blisters on my feet ripping open blood etc

one of the best things would also be chi gerk or leg sparring, no hand takedown defense, static and dynamic body structure drills etc. andrewS is THE MAN for that stuff...

also some people swear by weapons sparring to speed up footwork as you have to be quick to enter etc

[Jeff Bussey]

Thanks Stricker,
Cool info.
The weapons thing is kind of a neat idea.

I'll look into that.

As for Ross, that guy is a beast. There's a video for that article on rope jumping, good stuff.

J

[Cobra Commander]

I have heard time and time again footwork is very very important for a warrior/fighter.

I never realized the truth of this statement until my own personal experiences with fighting and such.

Footwork is very very important. You do not want to become lazy with your feet and be caught "flatfooted" in the wrong situation at the right time if you catch my drift :p

I figure that is why Wing Chun is so serious with Chum Kiu after a student has honed his Sil Lum Tao (or at least got the basics down pat). Wing Chun relies on a lot of shifting, sidestepping, forward motion, etc etc. Basically the feet are the main sources of momentum...

Also in boxing, you learn that the feet move slightly b4 a punch. It is the feet that drives the power of the punch. The hand in actuality is probably the weakest component of your arsenal (i.e your body). If you have no hip, feet, waist, shoulders, you have very little power and effect with your arms and hands.



I always wondered, what would happen to a Wing Chun person, Boxer, Muay Thai, etc Artist if he/she
loses the use of the legs and is wheelchair bound or something....... would there be a way to still maintain or/and improve their skills without the use of legs?
Picture a Wing Chun guy getting into a car accident and he can no longer walk, and he is in his wheelchair headed home and someone tries to attack him, if he continued to train in W.C up to that point do you think he still has a fighting chance? I'm sure by then he would not be fighting fair because of his situation and probably would pull out a stick and use some weapons based knowledge lol!

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey Cobra,
Yup, footwork is essential.
You hear alot that the hands and the feet move together in wing chun, but in reality, your feet start the motion first. Most people's feet aren't as fast as their hands so it only makes sense, unless you're one of those crazy savate guys :D

J

[MyDrills]

Jeff,

i checked the link. I think thats a very good training for all who wants to improve on leg/feet coordination

:)

when ur fast enough, u can practice shaolin stances :)

[anerlich]

if he continued to train in W.C up to that point do you think he still has a fighting chance?

I read an article a long time ago about an Australian Karateka, John Marrable, who gained several dan rankings while in a wheelchair. The memory is a bit hazy, but IIRC he devised ways to do his kata while in the chair, and ways to fight using parts of his chair as weapons, or to block with, etc.

I've read of a high dan kenpo (I think) guy with one leg who continues to practice from a wheelchair. I think he lost his leg after he'd bee ntraining a long time, though.

I read about a US wrestler who is competitive at at least collegiate level and perhaps even higher who was born without hands or feet.

While I wouldn't wish it on anybody, I'd hope the human spirit would find away to keep on even after such an enormous setback.

As for getting into fights in a chair, I'd be looking for some sort of armoured and weaponised chair - blades that spring out from the wheel hubs per the pram in Shogun Assassin, rack mounted machine guns, rocket propelled grenades, flame throwers ... ;)

[Cobra Commander]

I read an article a long time ago about an Australian Karateka, John Marrable, who gained several dan rankings while in a wheelchair. The memory is a bit hazy, but IIRC he devised ways to do his kata while in the chair, and ways to fight using parts of his chair as weapons, or to block with, etc.

I've read of a high dan kenpo (I think) guy with one leg who continues to practice from a wheelchair. I think he lost his leg after he'd bee ntraining a long time, though.

I read about a US wrestler who is competitive at at least collegiate level and perhaps even higher who was born without hands or feet.

While I wouldn't wish it on anybody, I'd hope the human spirit would find away to keep on even after such an enormous setback.

As for getting into fights in a chair, I'd be looking for some sort of armoured and weaponised chair - blades that spring out from the wheel hubs per the pram in Shogun Assassin, rack mounted machine guns, rocket propelled grenades, flame throwers ... ;)


Chuck Norris could probably beat Mike Tyson AND Ric Flair
even if the only body part Chuck has
left is his crotch.

[Vajramusti]

I'm curious if anyone has any footwork drills that they would care to share.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a start-you can try to get a knowledgeable person to go over the details of the footwork
in the mok jong form...there are keys to first rate footwork in every" form" of wing chun-
if properly shown, understood and practiced...imho.

joy chaudhuri

[couch]

Chuck Norris could probably beat Mike Tyson AND Ric Flair
even if the only body part Chuck has
left is his crotch.

Oh my dear sweet crap you're on Chuck's nuts too much!

[praecox]

if you practice WC why do you need to learn footwork wchich has nothing to do with WC?

the WC (Leung Ting's) has absolutely briliant footwork logically connected to the ALL WC system. it's unusual, difficult but logical. strengt from the knees, turns...it's all comes from the RIGHT WC footwork (why you are standing on back leg?). if your footwork is bad, your hand's techniques never would be effective.

best

j

[Matrix]

if you practice WC why do you need to learn footwork wchich has nothing to do with WC?Hey J,
I absolutely agree that hands without footwork is ineffective, and that the footwork should be integrated into the whole body concept of WC. Bolting on other forms of footwork may be counter-productive. As Joy so correctly pointed out there is first-rate footwork included in the forms, especially the dummy. I think that footwork can be brought more to life, so to speak, by incorporating it into your chi-sao. Static rolling only takes you so far ( and that ain't far at all) and puts too much emphasis on the upper body, IMO. Or use it in sparring, if that's your thing.

What intrigues me about your post is that you describe the footwork as "unusual, difficult but logical". The word "difficult" in particular sticks out. Would you care to elaborate on how the footwork is difficult?

Thanks,

[Liddel]

Hey J,
I absolutely agree that hands without footwork is ineffective..... EDIT........I think that footwork can be brought more to life, so to speak, by incorporating it into your chi-sao. Static rolling only takes you so far ( and that ain't far at all).


I agree with Matrix on this one, good post.

I have to say im amazed that there are schools that dont step and turn during Poon Sao at the least....this is the beginning steps of Gor Sao is it not ? and then sparring and then real fighting ???

After all Chi Sao in my mind is any actions where you have a touch point , not just Fook Jum Da Tan Da Bong. :rolleyes:

You cant rely on maintaining personal space with the hands 'only' when practising with a good partner who closes you off with ease, you need turning and steping to make it live and to posses the force/power for finishing actions.

Obviously your aware of this point because your seeking footwork drills, but adding stepping and turning to Poon Sao / Chi Sao is a great start.

FWIW my Sifu always advocated taking all the actions of SLT and putting them into the Chum Kui Horse, with this in mind and hardy practice you can improve your footwork many tmies over IMO.

[Self]

Here is what I got. I have found chi gerk to be the best source for leg training for application, though I usually put so much weight on my front foot and could not move fast enough when I had a hand in my face. So I found an unorthodox method that worked wonders for me and is as follows:
Cut a piece of rope and tie it around your ankles about a shoulder width apart. Shuffle in with a partner and try to shift your footwork and apply turns etc. It will be hard but your footwork speed will increase a dramatic amount and you won't open these giant gates for sparring partners. Like I said, it worked wonders for me but that is for me. Just play around with it and tell me what you find okay? Excellent. (Also, my teacher uses this because he was brought up on the 'stick and brick' method. :))

-Aaron

[Mr Punch]

Good to see you back Joy, with good advice as usual. The dummy footwork is good, chi gerk is good... and don't neglect stepping drills/one step free punching.

With a partner:

Start at crossed hand range.
He steps in with one strike.
You step in/step out concentrating on the connectedness you should have through slt and ck, counter, strike, or pre-empt.

Of course, as you get better you should be working against two/three strike 'combos', and you WILL get nailed, so you MIGHT want to wear a helmet and certainly a gumshield.

And as you progress you'll also be wanting to make sure that every time you step in you can connect with his legs and occupy his space and his structure with your knees, ankles, hips and low instep kicks/sweeps if needs be.

Footwork is one good case where you can also improve on your own.

Solo:

Step out in a clock pattern, with pak da, tan da, a couple or three punches etc. Concentrate on the usual connection to the horse, and make sure that when you're rooted for the punch, you are able to float and move out as quickly as you came in immediately after. I am not recommending stepping in and out like a boxer or karateka (tho I don't see there being anythign wrong with that either!) but you need to build the feeling, the speed, and the connecting AND delinking the bridge (and the bridge's stability is as with everything , in the feet), and making sure you're not double weighted or too rooted, which is an invitation for disaster!

When you step back this manifests itself as having the ability, speed and non-telegraphing to be able to spring straight back in again.


if you practice WC why do you need to learn footwork wchich has nothing to do with WC?

the WC (Leung Ting's) has absolutely briliant footwork logically connected to the ALL WC system. it's unusual, difficult but logical. strengt from the knees, turns...it's all comes from the RIGHT WC footwork (why you are standing on back leg?). if your footwork is bad, your hand's techniques never would be effective.

best

jSpoken like a true believer who has never been shown or practised anything other than wc and Leung Ting's at that. Note: I'm not dissing LT's wc, but I have met a lot over zealous people with no experience of the big wide world of MA out there who always sound like you. You're wrong.

Learning and experiencing things outside your little box is always useful.

Wing chun is not a fighting system, it's a bunch of principles for you to improve your fighting.

So learning things outside your little box is useful for you to understand the confines of the little box you've willingly put yourself in and helping you to find a way to break out in your own way. This makes your wing chun your wing chun, so you are owning your body and not letting the constraints of wc rule you.

BTW, I've trained with all kinds of wing chun lineages and I didn't see anything especially 'brilliant', 'unusual', 'difficult' or even 'logical' in Leung Ting's people (even sifus of 13 years' training). Not to put it down, but just to say 'nothing special'. And this will be of course related only to the people from your lineage that I've met but in fact I found their footwork to be a little basic, a little too straight -line, especially in their insistance of one foot in front of the other, which made them very susceptible to sweeps, pushes and basic kicking/chi gerk principles, let alone serving to completely leave their hips out of any strikes.

This is not a lineage dig, just an observation based on my experience. If you have anything you'd like to say that might explain it from your point of view that would be interesting.

[AndrewS]

J,

What is WT footwork?

0/100? I've learned 40/60 from Leung Ting- that's the knife footwork.

Never going back- got taught to do that on the angle by Kernspecht, from the dummy (and hidden in the circle step, which is derived from Biu Tze).

Circling from the inside? I've learned to crash from outside from sifu Emin- that's from the dummy.

WT has a lot of very nice footwork.

By the same token- most people who practice WT, or any Wing Chun, for that matter have horrible footwork.

Train, learn, it's on you, not the system.

Life's like that.

Andrew

P.S. Mat- Please PM me with some details on who you ran into, 'cos if there's one thing that a WT guy shouldn't be easy prey for, it's sweeps.

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey guys,
Some really good posts on this. Keep them coming. I'm going to try a couple of things out.

J

:)

[Matrix]

I have to say im amazed that there are schools that dont step and turn during Poon Sao at the least....this is the beginning steps of Gor Sao is it not ? and then sparring and then real fighting ???Liddel.
I agree. It's all part of the progression that you've described. Some see Poon Sao as end unto itself, when others see it as an exercise to develop fighting skills. And it's prelimary stage at that. You need to add the stepping and turning etc, IMO.
Just rolling only teaches you to roll. ;)

[Liddel]

Some see Poon Sao as end unto itself, when others see it as an exercise to develop fighting skills.

Very interesting, it sparks my curiousity. :rolleyes:

I guess these are the people that see / or are taught, that Chi Sao is just Fook Jum Da, Tan Da Bong... when its really just contact of the bridge IMO. :rolleyes:

I mean if this was what i was taught i would have questioned it long ago ?

Poon Sao can be a tool, to develope sensitivity. But when you have that heightened sence and you feel an action comming you need to learn HOW to react appropriately dont you ? :rolleyes:

I hope people question that, and realise there is more...... otherwise it would be a very dissapointing art :o

Thanks Matrix.

[Matrix]

Poon Sao can be a tool, to develope sensitivity. But when you have that heightened sence and you feel an action comming you need to learn HOW to react appropriately dont you ? :rolleyes: Liddel,
That's pretty much how I see it as well.
I wish I could tell you that I was smart enough to have figured this out for myself.

cheers,
Bill