whirlwind kick

[nickV]

how do you do a whirlwind kick??

[Judge Pen]

You mean a Tornado kick? Do you know how to do an outside crescent kick?

[PangQuan]

well, for inside or outside jumping cresent. the footwork is the first step in learning the fluidity of the kick. (besides learning standing kick of course.)

most styles have thier own methods, which would be hard to describe in text.

the footwork will add additional momentum for throwing the kick. once you are comfortable with the kick, it becomes easier to use without the leading footwork.

[nickV]

does the whirlwind kick have any power or is it just for show??i think i can do an out side crescent,but i havent tried.

[Crushing Fist]

ok, if I'm right in what I think you mean by whirlwind kick it could also be described as a "jump spin inside cresent kick" or what we SDers sometimes call a "number 30 kick" after our #30 short form where we first learn it.

this is an inside cresent kick followed by a "whirlwind kick" (http://jackiechanmovie.com/Jackie's%20action/Kicks/myImages/CRESENT.gif)

although difficult to pull off in sparring this kick is not for show...


this is a knockout blow...

we first learn it stepping to make it easier but this particular kick is all over the place and done from various starting and ending positions to make it more difficult.


its one of "Lei's" signature moves in "Tekken" along with his spinning backsweep into jump spin outside cresent.


one way to practice it in the beginning is to stand on one foot then jump and turn toward the side with the raised leg while doing an inside cresent kick 180 degrees from the direction you were facing to start.

This is basically starting in the middle of the technique to get a feel for it.

if you can do this then try stepping forward and driving up your back leg as you begin to turn... at this point you are at that "middle point" from the previous drill.

only you should be airborne, not just standing and turning.

[nickV]

yes,that is what i meant by a whirlwind kick,it is in the end fight in the new police story.how long were you in kung uf before you learned this kick??

[Crushing Fist]

around six months I guess...

its the first sort of acrobatic technique we get, and once you get the feel of it, it's not very hard to do at all.

[Lokhopkuen]

This is whirlwind kick http://harmoniousfist.com/Myspwhirl.gif
The animated image posted by Crushing Fist is not a whirlwind kick because the standing leg is still on the ground when the "kick" is being executed..... Most people make this mistake in their "leaping" kicks.

"Crushing Fist

ok, if I'm right in what I think you mean by whirlwind kick it could also be described as a "jump spin inside cresent kick" or what we SDers sometimes call a "number 30 kick" after our #30 short form where we first learn it.

this is an inside cresent kick followed by a "whirlwind kick"."

[Crushing Fist]

lokhopkuen-

any issues you have with the animated technique I linked you'll have to take up with Jackie Chan :D

the whirlwind you posted is the same kick, done more "acrobatically" and "gymnastically" and it is certainly more impressive to see done.

the only difference is landing on the kicking foot...


but is that a sound combat technique?

I really don't think so.

The other foot is already there ready to land, the only reason not to use it is to make the move more flashy.

Landing on the foot that just made contact is risky business, at best.

Try it out on a heavy bag sometime. If you can make hard contact on a heavy bag with this kick and still land on the kicking foot you are the man

on the other hand its relatively easy to make hard contact and still land on the lead foot.



you are right that the "kick" or point of contact should be made while both feet are still airborne, and that this is true of all "leaping" kicks.

and it is a very common mistake... or inability.


that kind of athleticism is uncommon

[Lokhopkuen]

I don't have issue I have technique friend. We do not do "flash" we do combat. That kick in combat is not a slap in the face but instead a head taken off. Most people who lack the athletic ability or flexibility to perform a particular technique usually use the word "flashy".... My input here was to educate not to insult. Okay? Do not make the mistake of getting yourself all worked up because I used your post as an example. Nothing against you personally. Yet I notice I don't see you posting a picture of yourself performing instead I see words. I am kicker# 4 in that line-up.

I have practiced Northern style over 35 years and I still perform one leg whirl wind kicks and full splits left, right and middle at 50 years old. When I teach a sparring class I am out on the floor with gloves and a mouth piece while my students are in full gear. I know what is effective and what is not. Heavy bag is not a test of skill. Heavy bag is what is called DEAD TRAINING and should ONLY be used for a very short time in one's span of training mainly to test and train what it feels like to impact an object. Other than that heavy bag is a waste of time and creates a false sense of confidence that will quickly be swept away in a real fight. No one will stand still and let you hit them like a hanging bag. When you move they move. You have to kick faster and deeper than they can move. <http://myspace-600.vo.llnwd.net/00738/00/69/738449600_l.gif> The fact you even mentioned the heavy bag pegs you as a novice my friend. Try it against a moving target. I have. I will dig out THAT tape and post it for you to see as well. Northern Shaolim specializes in uncommon athleticism.

Technique, not flash.:D

Peace

[Crushing Fist]

I think you may have misunderstood my intent.

I wasn't getting worked up at all and I wasn't suggesting that you are not a fighter.

I am merely debating particulars with no emotional investment at all.

I know for a fact that that kick will do serious damage and almost certain ko.

and if you can do it the way you guys were performing it, then you can also do it the easier way. so why not practice the more difficult technique that you guys were doing?

what I was saying is that if that foot makes contact its going to be difficult to land on it. would you not agree with that statement? that isn't the end of the world, you can always just fall. if the kick wasn't blocked then that opponent is done anyway.

I'm guessing that when sparring you aren't "taking the heads off" of your students, so without throwing the kick out of range or landing on the other foot, how do you keep from connecting with excessive force? this is why I mentioned the heavy bag, merely as an object with mass that you don't have to apologize to. I know it doesn't mean anything as far as hitting a moving target, but my only point is the physics of landing after contact. A focus mit would be a better choice for training to hit a moving target IMO. but it is still different from really connecting with this kick against the side of someone's head while they attempt to block. How do you train to do this technique against someone without actually "taking their head off"?



I don't post any video of myself because I don't have any. sorry. I'll ask around and see if I can get someone to video me. I have not been training nearly as long as you, but perhaps you could give me some pointers on how I could do better.


anyway I like "flashy moves" and I think many of them have real combat usefulness, including this kick. I am only talking about this one specific point, and I am by no means "certain I am right". I'm open to learning new things.

So I ask that you please not read anything into my comments and questions. I in no way mean disrespect or insult. Your video clip was quite impressive and did not mean to suggest otherwise.

if you would like to address the one issue I have commented on here I would be most grateful. if not that's fine too.

I'm not into bad-mouthing others, so lets just be friendly. I know with as much experience as you have, I could learn a lot from you, and I would be very thankful for it.

sorry if I came off as being "wound up"

this was not my intention.

[PangQuan]

does the whirlwind kick have any power or is it just for show??i think i can do an out side crescent,but i havent tried.

yes it does have power. i enjoy doing a 180 version of this kick. you can get inside your opponent, and bring the kick around the ouside of their front guard. delivered from a standing position. thats a more applicable version. though if you can set up a 360 kick on someone. and actually hit. KO


yes,that is what i meant by a whirlwind kick,it is in the end fight in the new police story.how long were you in kung uf before you learned this kick?

at the school i atend. you will be introduced to this kick right away. you wont be able to do it right away, but you can try. with practice you will eventually get it. then you refine.

[nickV]

ok,thanks alot

[PangQuan]

when we do our whirl wind kick (we call it a fullhouse front for some reason) we do it jumping. of course.

so while we do the jumping kick, we bring our non kicking leg across as a block, then keep it tucked for groin protectin. we land both feet at the same time. stability. sure you can shoot your non kicking leg down if you have to recover, but we land in a solid horse. no one two, both, same time.

[Crushing Fist]

well to be completely fair, we do it all of these ways and more...


first time we learn it we land on the lead foot (we also use this foot as a deflection/block or even kick, though it has little power)

later on in another form we do the land in a horse stance (actually jump up from a horse to the kick and land back in it)

and in yet another form we are supposed to land on the kicking foot while the other foot goes straight into a back thrust kick.


I also do a version where I drop down and land on my side (saw a wu shu monk do it in Wheel of Life)

I like this for the same reason I've been talking about. when this kick makes contact, landing will be a different matter than when doing it in the air. preparing to not land on one's feet at all seems like a good idea. being able to land on either/ both / neither foot certainly gives one the most options to work with.

[Judge Pen]

It's a great kick. I think the flash animation showed a variation of that kick that was preceded with a standing inside crescent. And you are right, you should be in the air for both kicks.

I have a question for Lokhopkuen: What's the difference in applicaiton in landing on your second kicking leg versus landing on the first kicking leg? I know you have to be more explosive to land on the second, but the angle and target of the leg is the same for both, correct? I cringe seeing that landing though, but I've had an ACL tear so I cringe often when I see knees planted hard on an ariel technique.

[lxtruong]

I don't have issue I have technique friend. We do not do "flash" we do combat. That kick in combat is not a slap in the face but instead a head taken off. Most people who lack the athletic ability or flexibility to perform a particular technique usually use the word "flashy".... My input here was to educate not to insult. Okay? Do not make the mistake of getting yourself all worked up because I used your post as an example. Nothing against you personally. Yet I notice I don't see you posting a picture of yourself performing instead I see words. I am kicker# 4 in that line-up.

I have practiced Northern style over 35 years and I still perform one leg whirl wind kicks and full splits left, right and middle at 50 years old. When I teach a sparring class I am out on the floor with gloves and a mouth piece while my students are in full gear. I know what is effective and what is not. Technique, not flash.:D

Peace

Do you use that technique in sparring? That seems dangerous, even with head gear.

[PangQuan]

well to be completely fair, we do it all of these ways and more...


first time we learn it we land on the lead foot (we also use this foot as a deflection/block or even kick, though it has little power)

later on in another form we do the land in a horse stance (actually jump up from a horse to the kick and land back in it)

and in yet another form we are supposed to land on the kicking foot while the other foot goes straight into a back thrust kick.


I also do a version where I drop down and land on my side (saw a wu shu monk do it in Wheel of Life)

I like this for the same reason I've been talking about. when this kick makes contact, landing will be a different matter than when doing it in the air. preparing to not land on one's feet at all seems like a good idea. being able to land on either/ both / neither foot certainly gives one the most options to work with.

further reflection on this shows me that we do the same. in several sets we do this kick diferently. from non kick leg landing to kick leg landing, horse, drop kick, etc...

this kick is in our compulsory broadsword set as well.

though when we practice the kick, solo as a drill, we land in horse.

[Lokhopkuen]

It's a great kick. I think the flash animation showed a variation of that kick that was preceded with a standing inside crescent. And you are right, you should be in the air for both kicks.

I have a question for Lokhopkuen: What's the difference in applicaiton in landing on your second kicking leg versus landing on the first kicking leg? I know you have to be more explosive to land on the second, but the angle and target of the leg is the same for both, correct? I cringe seeing that landing though, but I've had an ACL tear so I cringe often when I see knees planted hard on an ariel technique.



Hey JP the application IMHO is against an opponent attacking from behind or leaping to avoid a sweep. Actually you would land in the "steal a step stance (twisting stance)" the idea is to use the force of the landing and transfer to the hands via spinning the shoulders or stand up again and transfer jing to an out side crescent, spinning back kick or side kick etc. No doubt it is a young person's kick. You can see some examples in movies like Prodigal son, whirl wind into spinning heel kick or Miracle with Jackie Chan, whirlwind into out side crescent into a sweep. My ACL is feeling the strain but I got strong quads.:D Hope I answered your question.:o

Peace

[Lokhopkuen]

Do you use that technique in sparring? That seems dangerous, even with head gear.

Me thinks it is a serious technique with potential mortal results so no, not in a friendly sparring session.:p

You're F**kin' wit me right?

The kick is impractical at best but a person well trained in Shaolin arts should be able to extend the limbs freely in any direction with force. Otherwise you should not call it gung fu. I see many styles who use the name Shaolin that are quite apparently not Shaolin but I don't hold the trade mark so I just kick back and grin with sincere encouragement.
The monks at the temple just pray.

Peaces

[Lokhopkuen]

I think you may have misunderstood my intent.

I wasn't getting worked up at all and I wasn't suggesting that you are not a fighter.

I am merely debating particulars with no emotional investment at all.

I know for a fact that that kick will do serious damage and almost certain ko.

and if you can do it the way you guys were performing it, then you can also do it the easier way. so why not practice the more difficult technique that you guys were doing?

what I was saying is that if that foot makes contact its going to be difficult to land on it. would you not agree with that statement? that isn't the end of the world, you can always just fall. if the kick wasn't blocked then that opponent is done anyway.

I'm guessing that when sparring you aren't "taking the heads off" of your students, so without throwing the kick out of range or landing on the other foot, how do you keep from connecting with excessive force? this is why I mentioned the heavy bag, merely as an object with mass that you don't have to apologize to. I know it doesn't mean anything as far as hitting a moving target, but my only point is the physics of landing after contact. A focus mit would be a better choice for training to hit a moving target IMO. but it is still different from really connecting with this kick against the side of someone's head while they attempt to block. How do you train to do this technique against someone without actually "taking their head off"?



I don't post any video of myself because I don't have any. sorry. I'll ask around and see if I can get someone to video me. I have not been training nearly as long as you, but perhaps you could give me some pointers on how I could do better.


anyway I like "flashy moves" and I think many of them have real combat usefulness, including this kick. I am only talking about this one specific point, and I am by no means "certain I am right". I'm open to learning new things.

So I ask that you please not read anything into my comments and questions. I in no way mean disrespect or insult. Your video clip was quite impressive and did not mean to suggest otherwise.

if you would like to address the one issue I have commented on here I would be most grateful. if not that's fine too.

I'm not into bad-mouthing others, so lets just be friendly. I know with as much experience as you have, I could learn a lot from you, and I would be very thankful for it.

sorry if I came off as being "wound up"

this was not my intention.

Not upset w/ you bro. Just feisty in my old age.

Train hard.

Peaces

[lxtruong]

Me thinks it is a serious technique with potential mortal results so no, not in a friendly sparring session.:p

You're F**kin' wit me right?

The kick is impractical at best but a person well trained in Shaolin arts should be able to extend the limbs freely in any direction with force. Otherwise you should not call it gung fu. I see many styles who use the name Shaolin that are quite apparently not Shaolin but I don't hold the trade mark so I just kick back and grin with sincere encouragement.
The monks at the temple just pray.

Peaces

Haha, figured as much. Well you post was talking about the kick then went into talking about sparring class so I was like holy cow I wouldn't want to be in that sparring class. Good way to lose some teeth.

[Lokhopkuen]

Dedicated practitioner, bad writer.

List of my shortcomings real and imagined grows daily.

Peace

[Judge Pen]

Hey JP the application IMHO is against an opponent attacking from behind or leaping to avoid a sweep. Actually you would land in the "steal a step stance (twisting stance)" the idea is to use the force of the landing and transfer to the hands via spinning the shoulders or stand up again and transfer jing to an out side crescent, spinning back kick or side kick etc. No doubt it is a young person's kick. You can see some examples in movies like Prodigal son, whirl wind into spinning heel kick or Miracle with Jackie Chan, whirlwind into out side crescent into a sweep. My ACL is feeling the strain but I got strong quads.:D Hope I answered your question.:o

Peace

Well yes and no. :D I guess I was asking about the variation where you land on the kicking leg as opposed to the back leg or landing into the twisting stance. Is that just because it takes more force to kick and land on the same leg?

[Banjos_dad]

No doubt it is a young person's kick.

thanks Lok Hop, I'm looking at 4-0 and i have a strong 'whirlwind kick,' we have a different name for it. i don't know about fighting applications though, maybe as a finishing move on someone that's already gazing. or to surprise someone standing behind you, to set up another technique.

[Iron_Fisted_TKD]

does the whirlwind kick have any power or is it just for show??i think i can do an out side crescent,but i havent tried.

The tornado kick is the main weapon used in Tae Kwon Do sparring. If you properly land a tornado kick, the recipient WILL be knocked out.

Some examples..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMp13KOvaQA&search=tae%20kwon%20do
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/16408/Kickboxing_Knockout.html?autoplay=true
THE KICK IS NOT JUST FLASHY, IT ACTUALLY IS GOOD

[Lokhopkuen]

Frickin' awesome clips man! I love TKD!



The tornado kick is the main weapon used in Tae Kwon Do sparring. If you properly land a tornado kick, the recipient WILL be knocked out.

Some examples..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMp13KOvaQA&search=tae%20kwon%20do
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/16408/Kickboxing_Knockout.html?autoplay=true
THE KICK IS NOT JUST FLASHY, IT ACTUALLY IS GOOD