Hughs Dominates Gracie!

[Becca]

Wow!:eek:

Spoiler: Hues got the win by ref stoppage at 4:39. Had Royce on his belly and was ground and pounding him from behind. Very Nice!

But OMG, does Royce have some friggin' flexable joints. Matt had him in a solid armbar. Most likey made it pop, but Royce still managed to keep it going through shear will power and managed to roll his shoulder just enough to slip it out.

I meen, that elbow was bent at least 10 degrees past hyper extention!:eek:

[Mr Punch]

Spoiler: Hues got the win The ****ing thread title's a spoiler! :mad:

It's too late for me thanks but ****ing delete it won't you?

[Becca]

Nope. The thread title is stating the inevitable. How Hughs won is the spoiler.:rolleyes: ;) :D

[sihing]

If you missed the fight, as I did, it's on youtube.com. Yeah basically Hughs dominates...

[Royal Dragon]

Seeing as how he escaped the arm bar by basically haveing superhuman flexibility, does that mean MMA guys will now adapt intense Yoga practice into thier regimes?

[MasterKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zmgbFTe2Iw

here is the fight

[MasterKiller]

Seeing as how he escaped the arm bar by basically haveing superhuman flexibility, does that mean MMA guys will now adapt intense Yoga practice into thier regimes?

That arm popped. He kept fighting because he has heart, not super-human flexibility.

[Royal Dragon]

Has thier been any discussion about the injury?

[Becca]

Seeing as how he escaped the arm bar by basically haveing superhuman flexibility, does that mean MMA guys will now adapt intense Yoga practice into thier regimes?
Some of us already do.

[Chum Kil]

Glad to see Matt win. The ****ing guy is a Human Pit Bull. Pound for Pound the strongest/best fighter around, hands down.

[svenfeynord]

Was it a good fight or did go to the mats right from the start?

[Hunt]

Hughs owned him...as soon as Gracie got popped in the head he went stupid..was my least favorite fight.. the Fisher/ Wiman fight was really entertaining..and the move Fisher used to knock him out with was a crazy flying knee/clothesline

[Becca]

Was it a good fight or did go to the mats right from the start?
Fantastic! Did go to the mat quick, but it took a few minutes, and there were some nice standing exchanges. Gracie's high kicks are pretty sloppy, but he had the guts to throw one or two out there. Many ground fighters won't. He never really had Matt in anything dangerouse, but he did a good job of making it hard for Matt. But one Matt had Royce's back it was just a mater of time. The ground and pound game is just not something Royce has any experience in...

[Becca]

Hughs owned him...as soon as Gracie got popped in the head he went stupid..was my least favorite fight.. the Fisher/ Wiman fight was really entertaining..and the move Fisher used to knock him out with was a crazy flying knee/clothesline
Hughs didn't "own" him... The fight went exactly as predicted: went to the mat quick and was a scramble from hell untill one mad a mistake. Royce made one first...

[BM2]

Was it a good fight or did go to the mats right from the start?
Royce landed some inside leg kicks with one a little high on the inside leg near the groin which causes Matt to withdraw several steps while he shoots a quick look at the ref . Matt scores with a couple of leg kicks. Matt rushed in behind some punches with Royce tieing Matt up. Royce knees Matt to the body. Matt, being shorter, lands two knees that are below the belt. The first bends Royce over.
They stay standing and move towards the center of the ring while still clinched. Royce throws an elbow which Matt ducks under and exposes his side to Matt. Matt muscles them both down where Matt lands in side control. Royce refuses to tap from a keylock armbar which was nasty while the other arm is trapped between Matt's knees. Royce momentarly gets half guard twice but it never was tight nor was he in a position to do anything. Royce turns to avoid some body shots and Matt quickly gets his back. With both hooks in and driving his hips down, Matt flattens Royce then delievers some GnP to the sides of Royce's face. Not being able to do anything but cover up the fight is stop with around 30 or seconds left in the first round.

[Hunt]

we must have seen different fights...at what point did Gracie have any control in that ring...Hughs Dominated him, without question..there wasnt a moment in that match where Gracie wasnt on the defensive....(ok besides the little chump shin kicks)

[Mr Punch]

Nope. The thread title is stating the inevitable. How Hughs won is the spoiler.:rolleyes: ;) :DNot funny. The title is a spoiler.

My post in the Who Will Win thread stated Hughes, but it wasn't inevitable, no fights ever are, and your thread title is frankly, a bit out of order.

[couch]

The link has been dismantled at youtube.com.

If anyone has downloaded it, etc...and you don't mind sharing...please PM.

Best,
Kenton

P.S. My son was born and fight night was our first night home!!! Priorities!

[SimonM]

If you missed the fight, as I did, it's on youtube.com. Yeah basically Hughs dominates...

That match was definately worth watching though. Watching royce fight always makes me feel better about MY crappy kicking skills. :D

[MyDrills]

that's not bad at all for royce

its normal for old mma champs to get badly beaten by younger fighters.

remember the ff fights:


ken shamrock vs tito ortiz
mark coleman vs pete williams
bas rutten vs kevin randleman
maurice smith vs kevin randleman

[hung-le]

The link has been dismantled at youtube.com.

If anyone has downloaded it, etc...and you don't mind sharing...please PM.

Best,
Kenton

P.S. My son was born and fight night was our first night home!!! Priorities!



Its still there.... just pop in "hughs gracie" in the search section at the top of the page...
Good fight...some might not have thought so with it going to the mat so quick....as a spectator of the sport , as long as its dynamic on the groud (which this fight was...) I'll enjoy it


it was all Hughs

Once Gracie backed up close to the fence . ( hard to slip a clinch with you're back up against the fence) that's (IMO) when the grappling really started. off course Gracie went to his back (the guard)..... Hughs had all the offense... but did anyone see how close Royce Gracie came to getting an armbar when he got his legs up and just about over Hugh's head ......(it happened close to the end of the match...)

I've seen Royce do that so many time (he let's his opponent over press while in the guard, then snatch's him like a python in some type of submission hold)

Hughs wasn't having any of that...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

http://media.putfile.com/Royce-Gracie-vs-Matt-Hughes-UFC-60

[Fu-Pow]

Now I remember why I haven't watched UFC in like 10 years.

1) Unbelievably crappy stand up game.

2) 2 guys rolling on the floor for 90% of the time.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzz..........

I'd rather watch K-1 anytime.

[WinterPalm]

If you go to the UFC website you can see an interview with Royce Gracie after the fight. He is drinking a bottle of water with the arm that was locked. He obviously didn't break it or even impair its functioning from the fight.

When I watched the part with Hughes putting the arm bar on, all I could think of was how Royce has had this done to him everyday of his life by his dad, uncles, cousins, nephews, brothers, etc, and it isn't going to make a difference today. That guy has crazy joint flexibility.

[Royal Dragon]

One thing I noticed, was how relaxed, and unaffected Royce seemed while his arm was locked. It was almost like he was like "Ok, nap time till this guys gets board of this". It was like he wasn't worried in the least and was just laying there letting hughs play.

[CaptinPickAxe]

And the douche bag of the year award goes to:

Becca, for fukkin' up my anticipation to rent the DVD. I intentionally stayed away from bullshido for this reason, and even they were kind enough to alert a spoiler. I bet you got snail trail in your panties for being the first to screw up everyone else's fun...

[CaptinPickAxe]

anyone got another view of the "arm popping"?

I need to see the gore

oh, Becca you should of started with a vid instead of the spoiler....

[Water Dragon]

One thing I noticed, was how relaxed, and unaffected Royce seemed while his arm was locked. It was almost like he was like "Ok, nap time till this guys gets board of this". It was like he wasn't worried in the least and was just laying there letting hughs play.

that's experience

[Knifefighter]

Was it a good fight or did go to the mats right from the star

LOL @ thinking a fight is only “good” if it is standing.


He never really had Matt in anything dangerouse, but he did a good job of making it hard for Matt. But one Matt had Royce's back it was just a mater of time. The ground and pound game is just not something Royce has any experience in...

Royce has years of experience in that type of G&P. That is the whole strategy of BJJ (pass the guard to side mount, work for knee ride/mount, take the back, strike/submit from the back). He’s just not used to being on the receiving end.



Hughs didn't "own" him... The fight went exactly as predicted: went to the mat quick and was a scramble from hell untill one mad a mistake. Royce made one first...

It was sad to see, but Hughes completely pwn3d him. Hughes had a very tight ground game and Royce made a bunch of mistakes. That match made Royce look like he has forgotten the very techniques he teaches his students. The lack of basic technique from Royce (one's that he teaches) was astonishing to me.


that's not bad at all for Royce

It’s extremely bad for Royce. He got pwn3d at his own game. It would have been much better if he would have been KTFO’ed during a standing exchange.


its normal for old mma champs to get badly beaten by younger fighters.

It’s not normal for a 5th degree BJJ BB to get completely dominated the grappling and positioning game on the ground. Getting beaten is one thing. Getting dominated technically in something you are supposed to be a master at is completely different.


Once Gracie backed up close to the fence . ( hard to slip a clinch with you're back up against the fence) that's (IMO) when the grappling really started. off course Gracie went to his back (the guard)
I've seen Royce do that so many time (he let's his opponent over press while in the guard, then snatch's him like a python in some type of submission hold).

LOL!!! Royce NEVER had Hughes in his guard



but did anyone see how close Royce Gracie came to getting an armbar when he got his legs up and just about over Hugh's head ......(it happened close to the end of the match...)

There was no arm bar threat there. Best case scenario, that move could have gotten Royce out of bottom side control.

[Becca]

And the douche bag of the year award goes to:

Becca, for fukkin' up my anticipation to rent the DVD. I intentionally stayed away from bullshido for this reason, and even they were kind enough to alert a spoiler. I bet you got snail trail in your panties for being the first to screw up everyone else's fun...
Glad I could be of assistance. ;) :D

[Becca]

Royce has years of experience in that type of G&P. That is the whole strategy of BJJ (pass the guard to side mount, work for knee ride/mount, take the back, strike/submit from the back). He’s just not used to being on the receiving end.


No, acually he doesn't. Hitting is not allowed it the events Royce competes in. Getting hit in the head repetedly by someone with Hughs' power is enough to sidetrack enyone. He may teach it, but if he doesn't make a point of training with people who actually try to KO him in training, he will not be prepared for it in the ring.

But other than that, I mostly agree with you, even if you do put it as more of a belittlement of your fellow KFO'ers. :rolleyes:

[Knifefighter]

But other than that, I mostly agree with you, even if you do put it as more of a belittlement of your fellow KFO'ers. :rolleyes:

Belittlement?? It's hard not to, when people post about things they know absolutely nothing about.

Such as...


Hitting is not allowed it the events Royce competes in.
Royce has only competed in three or four non-striking BJJ matches in his entire life. Every other event in which he has competed involved striking.

Royce fought in the first few UFC's. There were only three rules- not biting, no eye gouging, no fishhooking. People were hit until they were unconscious, bleeding wrecks.

Watch Gracie In Action 1 or 2. You will see Royce and other Gracies doing the same thing in those early fights as was done to Royce the other night.

Royce's entire BJJ fighting system involves striking.

[Royal Dragon]

It's hard not to, when people post about things they know absolutely nothing about.

Such as...


Knife Fighter comming on to a KUNG FU forum and acting like he knows Kung Fu, and is qualified to compare it to his persuites.........

[Green Cloud]

Just like I've said in the past wrestling, grappling, is all good till you get older. Size and strength matter when it comes to the ring. Gracie showed great skill and the fact he didn't tap out when he was in that arm bar proves how great he is.

The fact is when you got a young buck slamming you with all he's got the older grappler who is on his back doesn't stand a chance

Perhaps is he had better stand up fighting skill he would of done better. I was impressed with his flexibility in his training vid but it takes years to hone your stand up skills

[Royal Dragon]

Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time...maybe it's time Gracie learns to cheat a bit?

[Becca]

Belittlement?? It's hard not to, when people post about things they know absolutely nothing about.

Such as...


Royce has only competed in three or four non-striking BJJ matches in his entire life. Every other event in which he has competed involved striking.

Royce fought in the first few UFC's. There were only three rules- not biting, no eye gouging, no fishhooking. People were hit until they were unconscious, bleeding wrecks.

Watch Gracie In Action 1 or 2. You will see Royce and other Gracies doing the same thing in those early fights as was done to Royce the other night.

Royce's entire BJJ fighting system involves striking.
Those UFC fights were before ground and pound, as it is now done in the UFC, evolved. And K-1 and Pride do not allow that sort of ground and pound. King of the Cage does, as do a few others, but Royce hasn't ever competed in them. K-1 isn't a cage fighting event. Niether is Pride, that I know of. They are ring events. And the presence of a cage can mess up an experienced fighter if they aren't careful. You also are not taking itno account the fact that the rules change in K-1 depending on the format. Elbows are only allowed in tai kick boxing and sometimes in San Shou format, but not always. Did you bother to look up the format and rule set Royce was fighting with? I doubt it...

[BM2]

I signed up and get a newsletter every week from this site. Here is how he ended this weeks...
ROYCE GRACIE VS MATT HUGHES: JIU-JITSU WINS!

Last Saturday night Matt Hughes decisively defeated Royce Gracie in a much promoted UFC matchup. One of the most interesting things about this fight was that mixed martial arts have come full circle, with Matt defeating Royce using a strategy first popularized by Royce himself.

Matt Hughes used a positional strategy straight from the jiu-jitsu playbook: takedown to sidecontrol to rearmount, and then finishing with strikes from rearmount. This approach to fighting comes directly from Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Rearmount is not a pin in wrestling and it doesn't win a match in Judo: the dominance of this position is emphasized by jiu-jitsu to an extent not found in other martial arts.

This fight goes to show the HUGE influence the Gracie family has had on mixed martial arts (and martial arts in general). Their techniques and strategies are now out in the open, and have revolutionized our approach to fighting.

Kudos to Royce for igniting the grappling explosion by dominating the early UFCs. Huge respect to Matt Hughes for his continuing dominance in an incredibly tough sport.


Stephan Kesting
http://www.grapplearts.com

[CaptinPickAxe]

Pride does allow the ground and pound. The only rule is no knees to the head while prone (aka all four limbs on the ground)

To say Gracie was out of his element is a cop out. Remember, this is a TRAINED fighter. He should ready for anything that is allowed in the rules. Including and not limited to the ground and Pound. Besides, the whole lead up to the fight, Hughes claimed that this will be how he will defeat Royce. It seems ego can get in the way of even the greatest fighter....

[CaptinPickAxe]

I signed up and get a newsletter every week from this site. Here is how he ended this weeks...
ROYCE GRACIE VS MATT HUGHES: JIU-JITSU WINS!

Last Saturday night Matt Hughes decisively defeated Royce Gracie in a much promoted UFC matchup. One of the most interesting things about this fight was that mixed martial arts have come full circle, with Matt defeating Royce using a strategy first popularized by Royce himself.

Matt Hughes used a positional strategy straight from the jiu-jitsu playbook: takedown to sidecontrol to rearmount, and then finishing with strikes from rearmount. This approach to fighting comes directly from Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Rearmount is not a pin in wrestling and it doesn't win a match in Judo: the dominance of this position is emphasized by jiu-jitsu to an extent not found in other martial arts.

This fight goes to show the HUGE influence the Gracie family has had on mixed martial arts (and martial arts in general). Their techniques and strategies are now out in the open, and have revolutionized our approach to fighting.

Kudos to Royce for igniting the grappling explosion by dominating the early UFCs. Huge respect to Matt Hughes for his continuing dominance in an incredibly tough sport.


Stephan Kesting
http://www.grapplearts.com


So even though Royce lost... It's still a win for the Gracies.:rolleyes:

[Nick Forrer]

Have to agree with knife fighters comments........Royce showed little of the basic technique hes known for (didnt fight for an underhook, didnt close the half guard etc.) although the zen like composure he had whilst having his arm cranked was something to behold.

And Becca, echoing mat and CPA well done for the spoiler in the title:rolleyes: . Pls dont do it again...its just common courtesy for others who havent seen it.

[CaptinPickAxe]

So.....


What happend to Royce's arm? Anyone see another angle to it? Did it break...


I NEED ANSWERS ******!!!:mad:

[MasterKiller]

Royce has only competed in three or four non-striking BJJ matches in his entire life. Every other event in which he has competed involved striking.

400 - 1 in striking events, then? :rolleyes:

Becca,
Watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naWEbPDz80w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVy0k3mDzdU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZyeSScNH8Y

[Becca]

Pride does allow the ground and pound. The only rule is no knees to the head while prone (aka all four limbs on the ground)

To say Gracie was out of his element is a cop out. Remember, this is a TRAINED fighter. He should ready for anything that is allowed in the rules. Including and not limited to the ground and Pound. Besides, the whole lead up to the fight, Hughes claimed that this will be how he will defeat Royce. It seems ego can get in the way of even the greatest fighter....
Ok. Don't follow Pride, so I conced that one.

[Becca]

400 - 1 in striking events, then? :rolleyes:

Becca,
Watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naWEbPDz80w


Dail-up sucks, so I only watched the first. (Royler vs kempo instructor)

Nice vid. Nice of that faceless jiujitsu black belt to help Royler turn his opponant, too...:rolleyes:

But I did get your point. And I actually did know that BJJ was the pioneer for bringing ground and pound to the fore front of most people's attention. But my points, as I see, are still valid.

1. Royce needs to train with people who are actually trying to KO him if he wants to fight that way.

2. He didn't do a half-bad job of making Matt earn that victory.

3. That match was going to go to the first person who made a mistake. That was Royce.

4. Just because it ended in the first round don't meen Royce was getting "owned" the whole fight. Just at the end where he lost his center with Matt's rear mount. Had he not lost his center, the ref would not have stopped it so soon.

[FuXnDajenariht]

The link has been dismantled at youtube.com.

If anyone has downloaded it, etc...and you don't mind sharing...please PM.

Best,
Kenton

P.S. My son was born and fight night was our first night home!!! Priorities!

congrats on your new addition couch!! :D :D

[Mr Punch]

P.S. My son was born and fight night was our first night home!!! Priorities!Congrats man!:D

[Mr Punch]

Just like I've said in the past wrestling, grappling, is all good till you get older.Nonsense. No more so than many styles of kung fu. There are many old old judo and jujutsu teachers. And look at Knifefighter: isn't he an old ****er? :D

Of course age matters, but no more so in grappling than most other MA. And certainly if you compare it to boxing, most karate, TKD, Thai, or most kung fu where they never even fought in the first place it's got a much longer life.


And Becca, echoing mat and CPA well done for the spoiler in the title . Pls dont do it again...its just common courtesy for others who havent seen it.Don't waste your breath man, it's obvious the rude bast**d just thinks it's funny. Basic netiquette, man, jesus.

[Becca]

Don't think it's funny. Was borderline drunk when I posted the thread and wasn't thinking about the fact the title itself saw a spoiler. I don't know how to change the title, or I would... You want me to delete the whole thread, I will.

[Royal Dragon]

Becca, I wouldn't worry about it. By now, everyone knows the deal, and how the fight went.

[Mr Punch]

Don't think it's funny. Was borderline drunk when I posted the thread and wasn't thinking about the fact the title itself saw a spoiler. I don't know how to change the title, or I would... See, if you'd have explained that in the first place, maybe said sorry, and deleted/reposted the thread after my (the first) complaint, then that would have been great, and wouldn't have p!ssed anybody else off!


You want me to delete the whole thread, I will.
Becca, I wouldn't worry about it. By now, everyone knows the deal, and how the fight went.

[jethro]

you haven't called the authorities, have you?

[Mr Punch]

you haven't called the authorities, have you?Try, f**k you.

It's not just me, and it's basic ****ing etiquette all over fight forums. End of ****ing story. If she had've deleted it in the first place, or even just hadn't peppered her first reply to mine with smileys I'd've dropped it a long time ago.

[SevenStar]

Some of us already do.


us? since when did you do mma?

as for RD's question though, it's no secret that rickson is into yoga and endorses training it.

[SevenStar]

Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time...

No, it won't.

[SevenStar]

Just like I've said in the past wrestling, grappling, is all good till you get older. Size and strength matter when it comes to the ring. Gracie showed great skill and the fact he didn't tap out when he was in that arm bar proves how great he is.

The fact is when you got a young buck slamming you with all he's got the older grappler who is on his back doesn't stand a chance

Perhaps is he had better stand up fighting skill he would of done better. I was impressed with his flexibility in his training vid but it takes years to hone your stand up skills

it takes years to hone any skill. Age is a factor in any venue, not just grappling. Younger strikers maul older strikers all the time. It's just life's vicious cycle.

[jethro]

if you call the cops, she is probably gonna be let off with a warning, might not be worth it.

[SevenStar]

1. Royce needs to train with people who are actually trying to KO him if he wants to fight that way.

he does. Have you ever watched him roll with a punch? there's some boxing there.

since you are an mma person... how many of his fights have you actually seen a punch phase him? very few. there is a reason for that.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

congrats on your new addition couch!! :D :D

yeah no **** ... congrats my man.

its a weird paradox .... the best thing in your life just happened to you, but it'll seem like you make nothing but sacrafices. it can make you very tired sometimes, but every first step, every smile, and every hug makes it all worthwhile.

[chud]

In addition to the Hughes/Gracie fight, I also enjoyed seeing John Alessio stuff Diego Sanchez's takedowns. :cool:

[Shaolinlueb]

gracies skills are old. in japan they get dominated. bj penn beat 2 or 3. hoyce isnt the end all of end all. bj penn also beat matt hughes. watch pride instead. more talent there :p

[Becca]

us? since when did you do mma?

as for RD's question though, it's no secret that rickson is into yoga and endorses training it.
Ain't going there with you again... I've stated my experience enough times to know you will dis everything I say in that reguard.

[Ben Gash]

The thing that always makes me laugh about those Gracie JJ in action vids is how bad the stand up guys' stand up is :rolleyes: The funniest one is the Hapkido guy who would have been taken apart by a half decent boxer, never mind a skilled grappler. I mean that first one with the Kempo guy, WTF was all that about. He just stood there for 30 seconds with Royler hugging his leg and just let him take him down. Now I'm not one of these "groundfighting's no good" guys as you all know, but come on, a few punches down onto his head may have been useful :rolleyes: I also love the "modern Kung Fu master". Right, so that means he made it up :mad:
As for the Hughes fight, yes, the fight was decided by the first mistake, but that mistake was the DREADFUL throw that Gracie totally ****ed up. He failed to get the advantage on the ground, and never recovered. As for the "let him work on the arm until he gets bored" thing, hardly a sound fight strategy. If Hughes had been willing to cause him serious injury, rather than going for the submission, then he'd have just broken the elbow, leaving you with a guy on top of you and an arm you can't use (and a fracture dislocation of the elbow is insanely painful, probably a fight ender in any situation). Gracie just seemed to be out of ideas :(

[hung-le]

LOL!!! Royce NEVER had Hughes in his guard



There was no arm bar threat there. Best case scenario, that move could have gotten Royce out of bottom side control.[/QUOTE]

like I said I'm a "spectator"........"one who whatches..... does not do.... enjoys but knows nothing .....etc...etc....


I was going to put some wiseazz remark...but then it dawned on me "you must live or die by what people think of you on this news group "expecially when its in reference to MMA and your knowledge and skill"......You going through the whole thread and cherry picking the posts say's a lot

I thought maybe my words had sunk in ......


Dude it only the internet....this isn't real........

go hang with the dog brothers...instead of trolling and puffing out your internet chest ...you can't tell me that isn't more fun

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

it didnt really seem like he made more than a half assed attempt to get out of side mount, he completely gave him his back, and then gave him his back again when hughes didn't fully take advantage of it the first time.

does anyone else find that odd?

[MasterKiller]

as for RD's question though, it's no secret that rickson is into yoga and endorses training it.

in SUPERFIT, he has a massive strecthing routine, and lots of various other body-weight exercises, including...................................

horse stance. :eek:

[gabe]

LOL at the people dissing Royce. As if they would have had an answer to Matt and could have gotten out of the situation Royce was in. At that level, you make one mistake and that's it. If the fighter is that good, he won't let you reverse it. One errant elbow and the whole fight changed. Going down while at a disadvantage was fatal for Royce. If Matt had been the one to make the mistake, irregardless of how strong he is (remember, many of Royce's opponents were stronger), it could easily have gone the other way in my opinion (assuming the fight went to the ground).

This is exactly what to expect when two elite grapplers go to the ground. One mistake is all it takes. I like'd it. The fight would have been much longer if they were screwing around or were afraid of one another.

[gabe]

it didnt really seem like he made more than a half assed attempt to get out of side mount, he completely gave him his back, and then gave him his back again when hughes didn't fully take advantage of it the first time.

does anyone else find that odd?


Take a guy that weighs as much as you, is four inches shorter or so, pack him with muscle, give him tons of agility and ground mobility, make him a wrestling champ, add tons of matwork and experience, put him on top of you and see if you can get him off or escape.

[Ray Pina]

it didnt really seem like he made more than a half assed attempt to get out of side mount, he completely gave him his back, and then gave him his back again when hughes didn't fully take advantage of it the first time.

does anyone else find that odd?

Yea, the whole thing was odd; it was like watching a funeral. Very bad effort by Royce. I think it was a matter of two skilled ground guys and one was a lot younger and more powerful then the other one.

Two guys using the same technique and idea, one has arms like steal rod the other like a wet noodle..... who won was not a surprise, just thought the wet noodle would have wiggled for more than that, though I was praying he'd win.

[BM2]

I agree completly with this:
Take a guy that weighs as much as you, is four inches shorter or so, pack him with muscle, give him tons of agility and ground mobility, make him a wrestling champ, add tons of matwork and experience, put him on top of you and see if you can get him off or escape.

[Shaolinlueb]

LOL at the people dissing Royce. As if they would have had an answer to Matt and could have gotten out of the situation Royce was in. At that level, you make one mistake and that's it. If the fighter is that good, he won't let you reverse it. One errant elbow and the whole fight changed. Going down while at a disadvantage was fatal for Royce. If Matt had been the one to make the mistake, irregardless of how strong he is (remember, many of Royce's opponents were stronger), it could easily have gone the other way in my opinion (assuming the fight went to the ground).

This is exactly what to expect when two elite grapplers go to the ground. One mistake is all it takes. I like'd it. The fight would have been much longer if they were screwing around or were afraid of one another.

very very good point.
but hoyce's bjj skills are old. and when he tried to stand up those skills were horrible. i dont know how much he cross trains, but i know hughes does and hughes is good at what he does, its just his head is too big now.

[Knifefighter]

The thing that always makes me laugh about those Gracie JJ in action vids is how bad the stand up guys' stand up is The funniest one is the Hapkido guy who would have been taken apart by a half decent boxer, never mind a skilled grappler.
.
Putting this in perspective, you’ve got to remember that most people bought into the myth of the “undefeatable” TMA master. All those Hapkido, Karate and Kung Fu guys who did the Gracie Challenge looked awesome when they went through their warm-up forms beforehand. It wasn’t until the fights actually started that their lack of fighting ability was exposed.

Back in those days, most TMA standup was equally as bad, but they all thought they were killers.


I mean that first one with the Kempo guy, WTF was all that about. He just stood there for 30 seconds with Royler hugging his leg and just let him take him down. Now I'm not one of these "groundfighting's no good" guys as you all know, but come on, a few punches down onto his head may have been useful
.
I was at the Torrance Academy during the “challenge years” and saw many people punching and elbowing down into the head. It never did any good, other than to make the Gracie fighter more aggressive.



LOL at the people dissing Royce. As if they would have had an answer to Matt and could have gotten out of the situation Royce was in. At that level, you make one mistake and that's it. If the fighter is that good, he won't let you reverse it. One errant elbow and the whole fight changed. Going down while at a disadvantage was fatal for Royce. If Matt had been the one to make the mistake, irregardless of how strong he is (remember, many of Royce's opponents were stronger), it could easily have gone the other way in my opinion (assuming the fight went to the ground).
.
Actually, the vale tudo BJJ that I learned from Royce did have answers to that. He didn’t use those tactics, though.
Not sure why, but I have a few ideas.



Take a guy that weighs as much as you, is four inches shorter or so, pack him with muscle, give him tons of agility and ground mobility, make him a wrestling champ, add tons of matwork and experience, put him on top of you and see if you can get him off or escape.
.
Uh, do you remember Dan Severn, a 260 lb. all American wrestler against Royce? BJJ is designed to defend against a bigger, stronger opponent who attains a top position.

[Royal Dragon]

Maybe the "Fix" was in?

[gabe]

"Actually, the vale tudo BJJ that I learned from Royce did have answers to that. He didn’t use those tactics, though.
Not sure why, but I have a few ideas.

Everybody's got an answer to everything, you know?

"Uh, do you remember Dan Severn, a 260 lb. all American wrestler against Royce? BJJ is designed to defend against a bigger, stronger opponent who attains a top position."


Sure. Talking specifics? Ok. You're supposed to be the grappling master here. Quick to critique, too. Isn't Matt Hughes bigger and stronger than you? Why don't we stick him on top of you and see if you do any better than Royce.:rolleyes:
Who here speculates a different outcome?:)

[Hunt]

I was sure Royce was going to do something when they hit the ground....I was thinking ...ok here is where the fight starts...we'll see Gracie do his thing....then Hughs manhandled him....we saw the calm face of a master tactician...who was certain his martial ability could best anyone...turn into a punch drunk melon being bounced off the canvas ......I think I heard the collective ego of the BJJ community shatter into a million pieces as Royce took up the little known cover your head while they pummel you guard- course Hughs used the peek-a-boo through the armpit lip tingler to counter.......

All kidding aside, they are both great fighters. I just think Gracie severely underestimated Hughs....I wonder how many people will convert to the Miletech Fighting system because of this fight

[couch]

Thank you for the kind words, gentlemen. I usually can't wait until daylight because then my cortisol starts pumping through my veins and I wake up!

It's pretty tough...this getting Noah up to get to his mom for feeding, then try and put him to bed before changing him and then getting the wife something to eat and then trying to get in about 1 hour of sleep before Noah wakes or we have to feed him again.

Yikes!

It's well worth it, though!

Thanks again,
Kenton Sefcik

[Green Cloud]

Nonsense. No more so than many styles of kung fu. There are many old old judo and jujutsu teachers. And look at Knifefighter: isn't he an old ****er? :D

Of course age matters, but no more so in grappling than most other MA. And certainly if you compare it to boxing, most karate, TKD, Thai, or most kung fu where they never even fought in the first place it's got a much longer life.

Don't waste your breath man, it's obvious the rude bast**d just thinks it's funny. Basic netiquette, man, jesus.

Hey Mat, the point that I was making is that when you hit 40 youre just not going to have the same speed and strength as someone who knows just as much as you do.

Infact Mat H. just had a better well rounded arsenal than Gracie, watching Hoyce's pre fight training his stand up was that of an intermediate kick boxer.

Having mastered better striking ability would have helped him out a great deal, it might of been a better fight but Mat H. is just a younger stronger and better athlete.

The days of all you need to know is jiu jitsu, well those days are over. If youre not well versed in every area of combat you will lose.


greencloud.net

[qiphlow]

ok i'm gonna say something that will be regardes as heresy:
perhaps--and this is pure speculation--some of the producers persuaded one of the parties to not give 100 % in order to set up a future rematch??

HUGHES/GRACIE II --
coming soon on pay-per-view

on a serious note, my guess is that royce is used to taking his time, and matt is used to getting the job done quickly.

[Green Cloud]

Nonsense. No more so than many styles of kung fu. There are many old old judo and jujutsu teachers. And look at Knifefighter: isn't he an old ****er? :D

Of course age matters, but no more so in grappling than most other MA. And certainly if you compare it to boxing, most karate, TKD, Thai, or most kung fu where they never even fought in the first place it's got a much longer life.

Don't waste your breath man, it's obvious the rude bast**d just thinks it's funny. Basic netiquette, man, jesus.

Hey Mat, the point that I was making is that when you hit 40 youre just not going to have the same speed and strength as someone who knows just as much as you do.

Infact Mat H. just had a better well rounded arsenal than Gracie, watching Hoyce's pre fight training his stand up was that of an intermediate kick boxer.

Having mastered better striking ability would have helped him out a great deal, it might of been a better fight but Mat H. is just a younger stronger and better athlete.

The days of all you need to know is jiu jitsu, well those days are over. If youre not well versed in every area of combat you will lose.


greencloud.net

[brothernumber9]

It would be nice if Rickson stepped back in now, or is he not in the same weight class?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Take a guy that weighs as much as you, is four inches shorter or so, pack him with muscle, give him tons of agility and ground mobility, make him a wrestling champ, add tons of matwork and experience, put him on top of you and see if you can get him off or escape.

well then i'd be fighting a very stocky midget and i still wouldn't be royce gracie. im sure it would be funny though.



who won was not a surprise, just thought the wet noodle would have wiggled for more than that

right right


Maybe the "Fix" was in?

thats what i was gettin at ....