Breath control in the internal arts

[kung fu fighter]

Hi,
What's the correct way to breath in chen tai chi or the internal arts when releasing fa ging. Is it taoist reverse breathing( lower stomach expands when exhaling) or normal buddist breathing (lower abdomin expand when inhaling)?

Is normal buddist breathing used only to cultivate and build up dan tien chi, and taoist reverse breathing used to release fa ging, or can one also release fa ging using normal buddist breathing?

[brucereiter]

Hi,
What's the correct way to breath in chen tai chi or the internal arts when releasing fa ging. Is it taoist reverse breathing( lower stomach expands when exhaling) or normal buddist breathing (lower abdomin expand when inhaling)?

try reverse flow breathing and practice fajing on a heavy bag.
then
try straight flow and breathing practice fajing on a heavy bag.

experiment for your self this is i think the best way for you to know the answer for real.

reverse flow breathing is the prefered meathod for ima though ...



Is normal buddist breathing used only to cultivate and build up dan tien chi, and taoist reverse breathing used to release fa ging, or can one also release fa ging using normal buddist breathing?

you can do it both ways ... have you asked your teacher? diffrent teachers might have another way they like it ... so i would ask your teacher and then experiment with what he says for a while ...

good luck

b

[kung fu fighter]

Thanks Shaolindoiscool,

Can I get some other internal stylist and Chen style practioner's opinions about the proper breathing involved in chi cultivation as well as for releasing fa ging.

[imperialtaichi]

Hello Kung Fu Fighter,

I know I'm going to get into trouble for saying this... Do not concentrate on your breathing :eek:

Instead, concentrate on moving your energy. When you forget about breathing, your energy will take over and your breathing will naturally align with the flow. When you do that the breathing will be natural and correct.

Make sure when you fa jing, DO NOT use any force, only use minimal movement and do not have any perceivable change in breathing pattern. An opponent cannot fight what he/she cannot detect/comprehend.

Cheers,
John

[FuXnDajenariht]

i thought reverse breathing was a big no-no?

[SPJ]

As pointed out, in the begining, we practice the forms with natural breathing.

Tai Chi Qi Gong is to practice to breathe in and out longer without or with movements.

The breathing in is called Cai Qi or to acquire air or energy.

There are 3 burners or San Jiao in your body.

As pointed out, you practice till you do not notice you inhale or exhale.

There are Tai Chi moves to breathe in. There are also parts of the moves or steps need to breathe out.

Such as He or close or tug in your chest, or Kai, open or expand your chest, etc

There is also voicing of Heng or Ha.

Yield and release your power. or store your power with steps, arms movements and waist rotation. Then release everything all at once.

:)

[kung fu fighter]

Thanks guys,

I am trying to figure out if taichi has both natural and reverse breathing or is it one or the other. Can you guys tell me how both of these types of breathing would be used to store chi and fa ging? I am under the impression that one can get more ging through reverse breathing. what's your opinions?


Hi John,

When you fa ging, is there any visualization involved such as visualizing the internal energy comming out from your dan tien to the part of your body that's doing the striking?

[Water Dragon]

Doesn't really matter. When you actually hit someone, you don't breathe in OR out. You slightly (very slightly) contract your abs. Some air will come out of your mouth, but it's not a true exhalation. You learn to do the same thing in Boxing and Muay Thai. Choose one and go with it. It's that simple.

Don't pay too much attention to the breathing issue. There're more important things to focus on. ;)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


Don't pay too much attention to the breathing issue. There're more important things to focus on.I'm not picking on you Water Dragon, just the notion of relative unimportance.. of all our physical activities, breathing seems to be the "most important".. 3-5 minutes without breathing has very undesirable consequences.. 3-5 days without water or 5-8 days without food has similar consequences..

It is through the total discipline of Taiji and QiGong that we gain the highest rewards.. and breath control is given very much attention throughout the classics and from most high-level people i have met or read of..

Total body/mind/spirit coordination and cooperation yields total Taiji expression.. breathing is no exception. We move in unison, breath included. Otherwise, our movement/intention is fragmented.

If you analyze breathing as a martial component you will find that you will use Taoist/RAB (reverse abdominal breathing) under the stress of combat.. so, why not train with that perspective? Tai Chi = Breath Energy, seems to be an essential part of the discipline..

Buddhist (normal abdominal breathing) is beneficial for serenity and enlightenment goals.. Taoist (reverse abdominal breathing) is beneficial for cultivating and manipulating Qi.. manipulating as in use for martial purposes..

There are body mechanics associated with breathing.. such as the spinal wave, the sacral pump, or the advance/retreat relationship.. Check the classics...

Be well...

[count]

So, in reverse breathing would you tense on exhalation or relax? Or the opposite? What's the consensus on holding the breath? Anyone taught this appropriate at any time?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Imagine pushing a car.. you "tense" the abs/obliques to add structure and protection for your internal organs while exhaling in a controlled fashion.. the abs expand as you push.. a condition known as "triple Yang", intention/application outward, expansion outward and breath outward.. similarly, recall a situation when you were surprised or frightened, you contract the abs/obliques (inward), you retreat inward and you inhale inward (triple Yin).. these are natural manifestations of reverse abdominal breathing under stress conditions..

I do not recommend "holding" the breath.. but, we do occasionally "float" the breath.. at transition between inhaling or exhaling you can maintain a condition of non-tensed stillness.. where the passage into the lungs is open but not active.. uninterupted flow at a still point of transition.. holding the breath (tensed and passage closed) interupts the flow and cycle..

Be well...

[Water Dragon]

This is what I'm talking about.


Greetings..

Imagine pushing a car.. you "tense" the abs/obliques to add structure and protection for your internal organs while exhaling in a controlled fashion.. the abs expand as you push.. a condition known as "triple Yang", intention/application outward, expansion outward and breath outward.. similarly, recall a situation when you were surprised or frightened, you contract the abs/obliques (inward), you retreat inward and you inhale inward (triple Yin).. these are natural manifestations of reverse abdominal breathing under stress conditions..

I do not recommend "holding" the breath.. but, we do occasionally "float" the breath.. at transition between inhaling or exhaling you can maintain a condition of non-tensed stillness.. where the passage into the lungs is open but not active.. uninterupted flow at a still point of transition.. holding the breath (tensed and passage closed) interupts the flow and cycle..

Be well...

[kung fu fighter]

Hi TaiChiBob,

During Reverse breathing do you pull in and hold the lower abdomen area (dan tien). Does the upper abs expand as you inhale.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

kung fu fighter: The whole abdominal area contracts (compressing the DanTien), the diaphragm is pushed downward (compressing the DanTien), the "floor muscles" contract upward (compressing the DanTien).. and, the "spinal wave" originates from the sacrum traveling upward through the MingMen (compressing the DanTien...).. The DanTien, being compressed from all sides, pushes some of its stored Qi into the circulation..

Try "sniffling", a quick inhallation through the nose with the mouth closed.. or recall a particularly frightening situation, sudden frights cause us to revert to Reverse Abdiminal Breathing..

All of this sets-up a condition where the body protects its vital organs, adds exterior structure for stability, and puts additional Qi into the equation.. it's a "warrior's breath", as i'm told...

Be well...

[fiercest tiger]

Tai chi Bob

Great Info guys, what breathing do you normally do when practicing your Taiji form?

Also how hard is it to achieve the small heavenly circulation whilst doing daoist breathing as you perform the form or better to just sit and do it?

If someone said to you pull your stomach in slightly and let the shoulders relax, tounge touch the roof of the mouth, would you see that as buddhist or Taoist breathing since the stomach is with drawn slightly?

cheers
Garry:)

[Wong Ying Home]

Do not forget the contraction and expansion of the ribs, this plays a vital role in what your looking for

[Ray Pina]

Breath normally. Focus on connectedness. Later on, if you concerned about really fighting and maintaining wind, it's in the exhale. Just exhale. Forget about how to exhale. The lungs are like a spunge. Most people gasp when short of air. Better to exhale fully and let the lungs suck its capacity back in.

In the beginning people focus on this sort of thing. And I understand there's power in the exhale. But can I bench press on the inhale? Of course I can. You train your body what to do and the lungs supply the oxygen naturally. Be natural..... breath natural .... stand and aproach natural. Forget breathing and stance. Train connectedness and mechanics.

[GeneChing]

Read Tai Chi Chuan Breathing Methodology: Grandmaster William C.C. Chen Shares the Fundamentals of Proper Breath-work for Tai Chi Practitioners and Martial Artists (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1383) by Robert Dreeben