Shuai chiao vs. Bagua zhang...

[atsai]

I'm unfamiliar w/ both styles and I think I just asked one of those verily broad, in-a-nut-shell, kind of question...

Anyway, when I can put more you-know-what in the you-know-where on a reqular ba$, I hope I can squeeze the time and add both shuai-chiao and bagua zhang into my repertoire. But more realistically, I can probably only devote the effort to one or the other. So my question is, can there be any generalized, while somewhat accurate, compare and contrast between the two sytles?

I lean more toward shuai chiao and my impression is, shuai chiao contains more grappling w/ more forceful, high-amplitude throws. While I've seen some video clips of Bagua applications and read some articles, I still don't know what make up the majority of the Bagua zhang's techniques(and yes, i know there're palm strikes!)...

btw, if you're suggesting visiting the schools, I think there're sifu Tsou and sifu Tim Cartmell located near my area--that's after the final/term paper season though... :)

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art T " onClick="parent.location='mailto:arttsai@mediaone.net?subje ct=from kfo...'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[count]

Hi Art,
First of all, I would highly suggest you come to my class and talk to Jason Tsou. He was a student of Chang Dong Sheng for Shuai Chiao and Baguazhang from the Gong Bao Tien Lineage. Because of this background a majority of our bagua applications a re grappling, some similiar to shuai chiao. There are plenty of palm strikes in bagua but in truth it is not the hand that bagua palm is refering to. The whole body is the palm and yes, you do strike with the whole body. I would say given a limited time to study you could learn alot more, alot quicker by learning some shuai chiao but the rewards of studying bagua are much greater. If you learn bagua, you are learning both and then some. Come by our class and talk to Tsou Sifu, you will be happy you did.
count
:)
PS: see my thread about Jason's upcoming seminar (http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=123191102&m=1311973202). We are all invading San Diego for a workshop on 64 palms in baguazhang at the end of this month.

[Mr. Nemo]

Hey, Art T, do you live in LA? Or are you just visiting?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Both of those men are excellent teachers by reputation.

Chang Tung Sheng's Shuai Chiao is interpreted differently by his students. I have seen Jason Tsou on tape and he looks darn good to me. Also - from my recent foray to Counts site, I notice he teaches Baji as well.

Tim Cartmell has a winning fighting record and a clear teaching method.

You have some good choices.

Also - I think it is Gao style Ba Gua that was developed by a Shuai Chiao man who became a student of Tung Hai Chuan. This being the case, you will find a lot of Shuai in Gao style BaGua.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[atsai]

And yes, I've been "relocated" to LA. :)

Looking forward to visiting the schools. My r&r time starts around in the middle of summer. I've not trained for years due to geographical location and now, I'm unlikely to resume my training anytime soon because of $$$. :mad:

I was interested in the connection between shuai chiao and Bagua because, as MonkeySlap Too pointed out, I read one of Dong Hi Chuan's student, Chen Ting Hua(sp?), originally learned shuai chiao. On Shen wu's bagua page (http://www.shenwu.com/bagua.htm), Chen is said to had been a "master" in shuai jiao. But I read elsewhere that shuai chiao was merely Chen's previous style and he couldn't get very far w/ chinese wrestling... I'm not familiar w/ different lineage and styles of Bagua though; the .opx lineage chart I'm reading was from this page. (http://www.beijingbagua.com/lowgraphic/history.html)

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art T " onClick="parent.location='mailto:arttsai@mediaone.net?subje ct=from kfo...'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[Mr. Nemo]

Actually, Jason Tsou teaches shaui chiao in addition to bagua (or at least, he's taught shuai chiao in the past).

He recommends learning both. He said that learning shuai chiao is like "putting wings on the dragon" or something like that (I heard this secondhand).