Order Of Progression In Yang Style Forms?

[sam58]

Can anyone tell me what would be the best order to learn Yang style forms? I already know 24 Forms, and want to know if it would be better to go straight to the 108, or to the 48 Forms first? Any recomendations for videos would be helpful too.

Thanks,
Sam

Look, and it can't be seen.
Listen, and it can't be heard.
Reach, and it can't be grasped.

[GLW]

First off....

24 Posture or Simplified Taijiquan is NOT Yang style. It was created in the min-1950's and based in large part on Traditional Yang style but it is way different. The Grasp Sparrow's Tail, Wave Hands, Lower Snake Body, High Pat on Horse, White Crane Spreads its wings, Step Back, Parry downward and punch, and even the Fan through back from 24 are all different in technique from Traditional Yang style. The stepping is different in a MAJOR way.

Having said that, 24 is a good place to start and get basic ideas. It is NOT a good place to end.

48 Posture - if you are referring to the routine that is known by that name is China is NOT a Yang style either. 48 is a Combined routine that has elements of Yang, Chen, Sun, and Wu styles. It is 6 lines long and quite interesting and intricate. It is a good routine in itself but it also gives a taste to a person who is not sure which style of Taijiquan to specialize in.

108 is often seen as 85 Posture in China. This difference in counting has to do with counting things as "On both sides" as one move or Right, Left, Right as 3 moves. It is NOT to be confused with 88 Posture that is a major rip off of traditional Yang Chengfu...the person who choreographed that one (a Master Li - first name I believe Tianyi...but memory is flaky), was more concerned with making a new well known routine than in NOT copying from another routine.

Make sure that whichever one you do, you know the story of the routine and the roots first.

As for videos, I have seen very few videos on Taijiquan that I would spend my money on. I have several but they are all on routines that I already know and I have them solely because even though they are poor, they were the best I could find on that particular routine for my reference library. I have also bought one or two out of morbid curiosity...sort of like watching a train wreck.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

24 is bogus, but a good beginning. Its like a white belt form.

Progression in yang style usually begins with learning the Long form first. Then into single and double push hands. Later steps can be added to push hands and Da Lu also. The 56 taiji sword form is then learned and 13 broad sword or knife. Later the 13 spear will be taught by teachers that might know it. Some schools teach a Yang fast form, sticky sword and spear, and a 2 person 88 san shou routine, taiji fan or other exotic taiji weapons.

[Rory]

Theres two barehanded forms slow form and a fast form this for wu,yang,chen

[Tsui]

I agree with GLW (amazing isn't it brother), the 24 form while based on the Yang, isn't quite the same.. sort of the reader's digest condensed version eh? As far as videos go, unless you are REALLY experienced, don't try to learn from them- it's just not the same, even a mediocre teacher will be better than a video every time... Good for reference and little else.

If you know a teacher that can teach the 108 form, go for it... sure it will take ahile to learn, but there is SO MUCH great info in there it will be worth it. Anytime you are learning a form, think of what you have, not what you haven't learned yet, your Sifu will give you more when you're ready. Play in the moment and you will be happy...

[Brad]

Hey GLW,

Is the teacher you're talking about Li Tian Ji? Even though 88 is a ripoff of trditional Yang, is the routine still worth learning? I think my coach teaches this before 108 but I also think I can choose to do Chen style.

[GLW]

That is the name...got the spelling wrong...or was it a typo...I have slept since then :)

The Traditional Yang Chengfu routine can be listed as 108, 104, 105, THE long form, or most commonly in China as 85 Posture Yang style (at least in Shanghai). The difference in counting all boils down to whether you do things like count Brush Knee as 1 move 3 times (Left, right, left) or as 1 move (on both sides).

The 88 posture that Li Tianji did is almost a complete rip off of the 85 posture with a change in the way wave hands is done...more like 24 posture, adding the rock step, and a couple of other minor changes....that ended up adding 3 postures...

If it were at least DIFFERENT enough from the traditional routine, it might be OK..but in a college, he would have been charged with plagarism and fired for publishing a routine like this.

I would personally not waste my time on 88 but learn 48 or 42 instead...and definitely learn 85 (long form).

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

did you compete in wushu at san diego?

I really am looking forward to learning the two person sword form and spear form routines of the yang style with my teacher. We might try to learn the 88 form but from another Yang master.

[GLW]

Actually...no...I was a Head Judge there...

[MaFuYee]

why not just learn one version of tai chi, and just do that for the rest of your life? - isn't that enough?

i don't see the point of learning 10 different versions. - except for academic purposes. - most people don't really even have enough time to dedicate to one version. (hence the shortened, simplified versions.)

"You can always get someone to do your thinking for you." - Gordie Howe on why he never wore a helmet during his 30-year pro hockey career, but always wore a cup.