What Taiji means?

[Internal Flow]

Can anybody tell me what is the meaning of the word Taiji? It is one of the few styles that i havent even heard the translation of their name.

[devere]

Tai - "Supreme"
Ji - "Pole" or "Ultimate"
Quan - "Boxing" or "Fist"

Here "poles" refers the extremes of Yin & Yang.

[Internal Flow]

Thanks :)

[GLW]

"Tai - "Supreme"
Ji - "Pole" or "Ultimate"
Quan - "Boxing" or "Fist"
Here "poles" refers the extremes of Yin & Yang. "

The misconception here is that you can and should translate the three characters independently. Doing this, you get what was posted.

this, is however incorrect from a grammar and vocabulary standpoint (scholarly use).

The wording is Taiji Quan

Quan - meaning fist or boxing is appended to just about every style of martial art...for example, american Karate would even be "Mei Guo Quan" - Mei Guo beautiful nation - or America and Wuan boxing....

The Taiji is similar to a contraction in English. But it has a small difference. Each character can stand alone and has a meaning by itself. However, when they are put together, they mean something different and more than each character solo.

Taiji combined this way is sometimes translated as the "Grand Terminus" or yin/Yang...but in essence, it refers directly to the concept and philosophy of the Yin Yang symbol...that is the Taiji. Tai by itself means largest. A wife is called Tai Tai...a big storm is Tai Feng (Da Feng is a big one and Tai Feng is biggest wind...in English, this is a Typhoon...sounds alike...eh...)

But in conjuction with Ji...You get Taijiquan...or...the Fist or Boxing style based upon the concept of Yin and Yang.

Many people try to say that the name implies it is the best of all styles. While I applaud their loyalty to their chosen style, this is at one point short sighted and at another, quite arrogant.

Also, if you keep in ind the concepts of Yin and Yang when training, you begin to get it...one hand advances, the other retreats...one is up, one down... that type of thing...soft yet firm...this will build the ideas in from the name up.

[Internal Flow]

Thanks GLW, could anybody also give me some information about "pushing hands"? Is it just an exercise, or something more? (im new to Taiji, some days ago, i thought it was just some short of exercise)

[Fu-Pow]

Push Hands=a type of sparring to develop sensitivity to ones opponent. There are several different types I think...some are more offensive where you actually try to push the other person off balance.

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/logo.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

[TheBigToad]

Taijiquan is simply a lot of times called "natural spine boxing"

Taiji is the grand supporting foundation. In Chinese architecture buildings where held upright by one strong and flexible pole without he roof and the foundation never really connected to the walls. This let the build withstand earth quakes and strong winds because the center of the house could bend, yield and flex and aloud of the body of the house to do so as well.

This relates to the body in the way the supporting pole of the house is the spine, let it be lifted(Yang) and pulled down(Yin) and natural(Taiji) at all times.
The movements such as "single whip" and "snake creeps down" don't really make it Taijiquan, since any movements keeping the spine in this taiji state and using it to fight is Taijiquan to some degree.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[TheBigToad]

Push Hands aren't sparring at all. In fact they aren't even "combat" training in the way of learning techniques. Push hands is an exercise to begin to feel and sense someone's movement at its very beginning and to neutralize, redirect, lead and yield the moment you feel it. Over time you will begin to feel this movement start faster and deeper inside your practice partner. There are different types of push hands games in fact there are push body games as well so that you can learn to feel force from all angles and extremities.

Sparring practice is sparring practice, technique training is technique training and should not be confused with Push Hands, although you can bring your push hands experiences into sparring and technique training, since Push hands is learning to feel at very deep levels thats all you really can afford to do, no to worry about techniques or fighting.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[JerryLove]

Well few of us spar -

1 a : BOX; especially : to gesture without landing a blow to draw one's opponent or create an opening b : to engage in a practice or exhibition bout of boxing
2 : SKIRMISH, WRANGLE
3 : to strike or fight with feet or spurs in the manner of a gamecock

That said, who said "combat training" was "learning techniques"? The push-hands exercise teaches quite a few combat skills. Exactly which depends on which style of push-hands and where the practitioner is.

Push-hands isn't just about "learning to feel at very deep levels", it's about keeping your center, about finding your opponents, and about preventing your opponent from finding yours. Theses are the skills that keep you from falling down. These are the skills that allow you to bring your opponent to the ground (without resorting to leg takedowns). These are the skills that teach redirection without collapsing.

The skills taught in push-hands are part of a broader set of skills in Taiji practice. But they are also useable in isolation. I was using what push-hands taught me in my Silat play long before I was compitent to fight with my Taiji skills.

[TheBigToad]

Jerry writes;
>>That said, who said "combat training" was "learning techniques"? <<<

No one.

Kevin wrote:

Sparring practice IS sparring practice, technique training IS technique training.

In this way Kevin feels they are sperate and did post as such.


Jerry writes;
>>The push-hands exercise teaches quite a few combat skills. <<<<

Kevin wrote:

although you can bring your push hands experiences into sparring and technique training

Actually Jerry without the listening and feeling from push hands your "combat" techniques aren't going to work as well. So Combat ability comes from push hands practice not Push Hands comes from combat.


Jerry writes;
>>Push-hands isn't just about "learning to feel at very deep levels", it's about keeping your center, about finding your opponents, and about preventing your opponent from finding yours. <<

Kevin feels that the above mentioned comments such as keeping and hiding center as well as what Kevin wrote before:

"an exercise to begin to feel and sense someone's movement at its very beginning and to neutralize, redirect, lead and yield the moment you feel it. Over time you will begin to feel this movement start faster and deeper inside your practice partner. There are different types of push hands games in fact there are push body games as well so that you can learn to feel force from all angles and extremities. "

Are all summed up in DEEP LEVELS OF FEELING, maybe some of us just aren't as deep....

Jerry writes;
>>Skills that allow you to bring your opponent to the ground (without resorting to leg takedowns).<<

Taijiquan contains all methods of combat including levels of shaiujio(wrestling) look to snake creeps down as a leg take down (one of many) and scooping throws, don't set your limitations as another's too.

Jerry writes;
>>The skills taught in push-hands are part of a broader set of skills in Taiji practice. <<<

Kevin's post explains that is the total sense.

I'm confused Jerry, where in your post of trying to undermine me and belittle my understanding did you have anything of actual value you to say?

I'm done with this board for a long time. Razak and others are right this place gets real petty real quick and I'm no longer interested in soiling my mind here anymore. Someone posts actualy and real information designed to help, encorage practice and martial development and idiots just want to abuse it to sound liek they know something.
For those I have meet and become friends with and we know that we can carry on useful conversations with you know where to reach me :)

-Kevin

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[Internal Flow]

Excuse me but im completetely new to Taiji and i actually got more into it through the Kung Fu Forum. I think it is really interesting. Any good books about Taiji? Not only with excercises, but with texts about the art to etc. Thanks

[Fu-Pow]

Sparring = a "free-form" 2 man exercise with specific guidelines or restrictions in which you must operate (ie although it is "free form" it is not a "free for all" like a real fight would be.)

This is how I would define sparring. You may define it differently. But under my definition pushh hands is definitely sparring. As you advance the guidelines become less restricted. You start out simply sensing your opponents energy and at a higher level you actually try to push them off balance....etc. etc. I read an article in Tai Chi Magazine that said push hands was created as a means of "sparring" that would allow practitioners to hone their skill without risk of injury.

By the way Kevin(Big Toad) your cut and paste job above is incoherent...I had a hard time understanding the point you were trying to make.....

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/logo.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee