Yang Short Form

[Sevan]

Hello all,

Okies, a friend(well kinda, but not really) has a tai chi video, Yang Short Form. Now I understand that the main point of the video is exercise, but is it worth my time if I want to use it for more than just exercise, a.k.a. fighting effeciency.

Thanks for any comments, suggestions, or whatnot,
Shane

[Mr. Nemo]

A video? My guess would be no. The video probably only shows the movements of the form. The fighting side of tai chi typically isn't stressed in short form teaching (though there are exceptions).

Also, you can't push with a video....

[MaFuYee]

i think of the tai chi postures as mnemonics. (sp?)
unless you are taught what the mnemonic means, it does you very little good, martial application wise.

it's like teaching someone, "Every Good Boy Does Fine", or "All Cows Eat Grass", and never teaching them what the hell that means. (incase you don't know, those mnemonics are used to help you read music.)

***

i do believe that the slow even movements can help any martial artist, with their balance... and if they are astute, perhaps they can even learn to use the proper muscle groups for striking, and proper waist turning... so in that respect, just learning the form can help you, regardless of what style you study... but, it would take many hundreds of hours of good practice. (as opposed to lacsidaisical (sp?) practice.)

in fact, you don't even have to learn tai chi... just do your own style, using the tai chi principles of slow even movements, to gain a greater kinesthological awareness, and the use of active relaxation to learn the most efficient use of the protagonist muscle groups for each movement.

(did that make any sense?)

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

[dre_doggX]

Tai chi chuan should be practice with fighting applications or else its just tai chi not tai chi chuan. you must get a video that shows fighting applications.

go to artisticvideo.com or just order from amazon.com

Andre Lashley

[Sevan]

Another thing then...

well... the video is "Tai Chi for Health"(Terry Dunn), and the main reason why i started viewing it is, well, becuase it was the only thing around, and i havnt gotten around to ordering any videos(as I still dont know of yet what i'd like to study) yet. ;) And the main reason why I'm looking at an 'internal' form is becuase my back is still healing from an injury, and as I am becoming very interested in martial arts(not just the exercise and whatnot) I dont want to just sit on my arse and waste time. If you know what i mean.

Okies, enough ranting, back to the quesion I wanted to ask...
Would this video be something I should try to learn from? If anyone has even heard of it let alone seen it.
And what are some suggestions on what videos are good to learn 'internal' forms from?

P.S. Yes, I would prefer training in person, but I live in the middle of Idaho, and atliest for a good while yet I wont be able to get any personal training.


Thanks agian,
Shane

[Sevan]

oh and about mnemoics, aka EGBDF and ACEG,
I do get what your saying there, as I play the piano, and have for the last few years :)

[Sevan]

Also...
Which internal style(s) are taoist in origin?

Which internal style(s) are buddhist in origin?

I'm just tryin for more info...

Thanks once agian,
Shane

[khinbu]

Why don't you ask:

Which internal style is Moslem origin?

There's no such "Buddhist" or "Taoist" origin. There's only one: Chinese origin.

Wish for peace

[Mr. Nemo]

"Origin" is a tricky word. However, mostly internal styles are thought of as taoist.

Shaolin styles are usually thought of as buddhist, and are usually thought of as "external" styles. I don't know of any buddhist internal styles.

As for internal styles, the ones associated with wudan mountain have a more taoist bend to them (tai chi is one of these). But there actually are moslem hsing-i styles, so wish for peace's post maybe wasn't entirely in jest.

[Braden]

So do any internal stylists wanna chime in as to the use of the taiji forms?

[khinbu]

Mr. Nemo
Yes, I am not messing around. ;)
Xinyi Liuhequan comes to us from Moslem practitioners. Xingyiquan, Yiquan, even Bajiquan (correct me if I am wrong) are this style's descendant. So, there's no Taoist, Buddhist, or some religions origin for Internal Arts. I am agree with you: "Origin" is a tricky word.

And Braden, what do you mean "usage of taiji forms"? Do you mean applications?

Wish for peace

[Esteban]

Hi,

fwiw, I agree that talk about "origins" is tricky. Somebody sone day in the past came up with the idea to hit somebody else with the side of the hand or the palm, instead of balling up a fist --or vice versa. Eventually, some group of people found that a method could be systematized. There's always going to be a dispute between who "invented" something, and who "gets the credit" for inventing it. Whether we agree or not, there are those who argue strongly that "internal" simply means "of [true] Chinese" origin and based on original Chinese philosophy. There are some who go so far as to say that it must be strictly Han (ethnic Chinese) origin. That eliminates arts with Buddhist roots because they are sometimes considered to have come from India. The same would be true of arts with Muslim origins --if one accepts the view that these Muslims weren't Chinese, of course. Taoism, to some, is seen as a purely Chinese invention, so those martial arts based on Taoist concepts are considered "internal." But, almost anyone familiar with Chinese martial arts knows that there are at least as many tjq, bagua, and xingyi practitioners who consider themselves Buddhist as there are those who don't. In fact, it's hard to separate the two, or the Confucian ethic. Chen style has "Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar", etc. Chen style has so many things similar to Shaolin that some people have said that it is not internal, or that it's partly "external." Well, that's the other problem. There have been many descriptions of what is "internal" in Chinese martial arts. People talk about tjq, xingyi, and bagua, but there are other "internal" arts, by anyone's definition. I'd be interested in hearing how they are they same, rather than different from other Chinese martial arts.

Best,
Esteban

[BigDude]

Look for Doc Fai Wongs Tai Chi videos. I'm still working on the Yang Short Form video I've had for several months, as training by yourself with videos is much harder than training in person. I like Sifu Wong's videos because:

1) He shows you the combat applications of every movement

2) He goes through each movement very carefully, explaining all the mistakes you're probably making (for instance, showing you exactly how far the hand should be from the hip at the end of the movement)

3) It's just fun to watch him throw his assistant around when he's demonstrating these techniques.

You can find his videos at:

HTTP://www.wwmas.com

Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone, it's that pitcher that gets hurt