Carpeted Concrete or Padded Floor

[BoulderDawg]

I recently had a conversation with another student at my school about the type of floor that is best to work out on.

Basically what we have at our school is a carpeted concrete floor. You're not going to slip but it is hard when you fall.

I thought nothing of it. Our Master's explanation was "When someone attacks you on the street you do not have a padded floor.....true, very true. However another student was using a football analogy. He mentioned that many players careers have been cut short due to playing on the much harder (especially the older stuff) artifical surface. I was thinking about that and it makes sense. Once you get a little older and have been working out on the same hard flloor for, let's say, 20 years it's bound to have an adverse affect on your joints.

Right now I have no problems but over time I'm wondering if maybe a padded floor might be best.

[IronFist]

I'd much rather train on a softer surface so I can perfect my technique while reducing the risk of injury, and then have the one time I get into a fight on the street have hard ground, than to always train on a hard surface and possibly get injured.

omg I phrased that terribly, but you know what I meant.

Just get some firm mats. They will protect you, but they're still hard enough to know that you've fallen on them.

The object of training is to avoid injuries as much as possible.

[TenTigers]

people glue carpet directly ontothe cement because the carpet layers are lazy and talk you into believing that it is the only way. My first school was built this way, but my second had padding underlayment, and tackless. Cemeted directly to the floor will prevent stretching and buckling, but your installer can come in and re stretch it. Besides, those cheap indoor outdoor carpets only last about five years before you need to replace it.
Carpet directly on cement is cement with rugburns. The parents might think, :\"Oh good, my child will be safe here" but it's bull. You hit your head on the floor, you're done.
Century sells those puzzle mats-not all of us can afford Swain. The puzzle mats are more costly than cheap industrial carpet glued on cement, but they are cheaper than anything else/
They are also hygenic, and can be mopped each class, or each day with a disinfectant. They don't hold dust mites, toe jam, saliva, blood, sweat, mucus,open running pus-dripping lesions, or children having accidents.
The mats can be replaced if there is a tear, carpet soon becomes stained, dirty, smelly,splits at the seams,and filled with duct tape, and looks like sh1t.
need I say more?

[Oso]

Puzzle mats are great.

Century's are softer but stickier than others. They are not good to do forms on.

And, their key system isn't the best and the mats will come apart under hard sparring or grappling. However, Century puts them on sale a couple of times a year at least 1/3 off.

I'm going to a harder, denser mat with a better key shape and that has a slicker (but not slippery) surface. Falls suck on them but you should, as IF suggests, put thicker mats down for falling anyway.

[mantis108]

Well, we train on both carpeted concrete (cemented without pading) and mats (tatami style). I believe the mats cost about $150 CAD a piece when new. I got it on loan for free right now (working to purchase them). I have to say once you do mats you never go back especially if you are grappling oriented. I am just in love with the tatami style mats. Carpet is not bad just rough on the skin. well, bad fall as well... I don't mind brusies but scratches are horrible. It takes too long to heal and people wonder why you have all those marks on your elbows and arm when you are in short sleeves. So...

Mantis108

[Pork Chop]

*getting whistful*

man... Owings Mills Gold's gym, where Baltimore San Shou was based out of, used to have the NICEST carpeting I've seen anywhere, it was your typical wooly/rough feeling carpet, with at least a good half an inch of padding underneath. We didn't even need mats, falling on that carpet was nicer than falling on a lot of types of matts. Then they had to go and replace it with a hardwood floor to make the aerobics instructors happy. :mad:

The nice thing about soft surfaces is that they tire your legs out quicker. You often hear boxers talking about a "soft" ring making footwork more difficult and sapping a boxer's strength.

[Chief Fox]

What your master should have said was: "I'm cheap and my wallet comes before your safety".

All kiding aside. carpet on concrete is usually that very thin indoor/outdoor type of carpet. All it really does is make the concrete fuzzy.

Working out/training on this type of surface could eventually damage your joints and may also cause long term problems. Notice how I said "could". Everyone is different. Training on concrete is fine for some but extremely bad for others.

Maybe suggest some kind of fund raiser for the school so you can get some proper mats and flooring.

[tattooedmonk]

I recently had a conversation with another student at my school about the type of floor that is best to work out on.

Basically what we have at our school is a carpeted concrete floor. You're not going to slip but it is hard when you fall.

I thought nothing of it. Our Master's explanation was "When someone attacks you on the street you do not have a padded floor.....true, very true. However another student was using a football analogy. He mentioned that many players careers have been cut short due to playing on the much harder (especially the older stuff) artifical surface. I was thinking about that and it makes sense. Once you get a little older and have been working out on the same hard flloor for, let's say, 20 years it's bound to have an adverse affect on your joints.

Right now I have no problems but over time I'm wondering if maybe a padded floor might be best. dawg...this is the same line of crap that has been force fed to those who are gulliable and do not know any better for 15 years plus.. padded floors is the best.... many of my friends/ students have quit over the years for this reason alone ..it does not make you tougher ..it makes you stupider...for all the reasons that these guys have said above me.... and more...many years ago I swept another black belt he turned a 180 degrees vertically in the air and landed on his head...got a concussion ....after that they inplemented the helmets...the helmets do nothing for your other joints ...yeah you can pad up ..but the where is the real contact in sparring?? ...your contact in sparring should be with a solid opponent and not solid concrete...it has no give what so ever...and if you hear about the shaolin monks training on the concrete ....well they do ....but not for sparring or down and ground training...and their concrete is not made of the same composition as ours..the school is a training facility and should use safety gear and padding and all that for specific reasons to protect the student ...on the street if you have been training in a school with no pads and no contact then you will get your ass kicked either way ..by the ground or your opponents...because of the repeated injuries involving fuzzy concrete many people are apprehensive about using certain techniques in turn when the time comes if and when they have to use those techniques they cannot because of the psychological block that goes with it...does this make sense or am I an idiot??
.......food for thought

[tattooedmonk]

What your master should have said was: "I'm cheap and my wallet comes before your safety".

All kiding aside. carpet on concrete is usually that very thin indoor/outdoor type of carpet. All it really does is make the concrete fuzzy.

Working out/training on this type of surface could eventually damage your joints and may also cause long term problems. Notice how I said "could". Everyone is different. Training on concrete is fine for some but extremely bad for others.

Maybe suggest some kind of fund raiser for the school so you can get some proper mats and flooring.trust me this is true on all accounts...the injuries will happen and have...no ones joints can take that impact for very long,,,they are not designed for that...

[Liz C]

'When someone attacks you on the street you do not have a padded floor'
If this logic is to be valid then this would also have to be true: Every time you train at this place you go totally all-out, life or death -- you truly fight just as hard as you would if your life was at stake on the street; if you use weapons you use the exact same ones in the same condition as you would be carrying on the street; you use no boxing gloves, mouth-guards, or other protective gear what so ever; you wear the same clothes and shoes as on the street; you don't do any warm-ups beforehand...etc.

[Oso]

trust me this is true on all accounts...the injuries will happen and have...no ones joints can take that impact for very long,,,they are not designed for that...


lol, I wish someone had told me that in 1990...no wonder I'm ate up.


spent 11 years in just such a school under the guise of 'good training'

no, I don't have any trepidation about taking a fall on some hard ****...but, it takes an act of congress to get out of bed in the morning.


get some mats.

[tattooedmonk]

If this logic is to be valid then this would also have to be true: Every time you train at this place you go totally all-out, life or death -- you truly fight just as hard as you would if your life was at stake on the street; if you use weapons you use the exact same ones in the same condition as you would be carrying on the street; you use no boxing gloves, mouth-guards, or other protective gear what so ever; you wear the same clothes and shoes as on the street; you don't do any warm-ups beforehand...etc.exactly....:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

lol, I wish someone had told me that in 1990...no wonder I'm ate up.


spent 11 years in just such a school under the guise of 'good training'

no, I don't have any trepidation about taking a fall on some hard ****...but, it takes an act of congress to get out of bed in the morning.


get some mats. good training my ass...the list is long with practioners who have had their martial arts training ended or severly altered because of this STUPIDITY....it stands to reason if you want to keep your students safe and in good standings then you provide the proper protection and training equipment to ensure they will be there in the next class, next week ,or next year...let go of your egos( yeah we are tough we practice on fuzzy concrete...just like on the street man ...even the MMA guys do not even do that)...... give me a break...it is a liability...and just plain ignorant and stupid...

[Mr Punch]

Everybody is correct.

I've trained a lot on all kinds of surfaces. Then all it took was a full tackle (I wasn't training, I was having a bit of rough and tumble with a mate) on concrete on my lower back to give me constant recurring back problems (bulging disc). It's ****ing stupid: all it takes is one bum fall.

[dougadam]

Carpet has a lot of bacteria in it. If a student where to get a cut while on the carpet they might get an infection from it.

Personally I have been training for years on a wood floor. And I have had no problems.
:)

[Pork Chop]

Wood tends to have a lot more give than concrete though; even lacquered hardwood.

Also depends on what kinda training you're doing I guess: is it takedowns? stance work? lots of jumping? falling? rolling?

[Water Dragon]

One day, a few years ago, my senior and I decided to do a few throws in his aprtment. Concrete covered with carpet. I got thrown (ridicuously slowly) 3 times before I quit and realized I was probably one of the world's biggest idiots. You don't want to train on concrete. Trust me on this one!

[Mr Punch]

Carpet has a lot of bacteria in it. If a student where to get a cut while on the carpet they might get an infection from it.And wood floors are all polished like a mirror and sterilized to hospital standards? With no splinters of course... :rolleyes:


Personally I have been training for years on a wood floor. And I have had no problems.
:)Kind of like the guy falling out of a tall building... "I'm all right so far, I'm all right so far..."

Depends of course, if you're not training full throws and sweeps and groundwork all the time fine... otherwise, get mats.

[tattooedmonk]

Wood tends to have a lot more give than concrete though; even lacquered hardwood.

Also depends on what kinda training you're doing I guess: is it takedowns? stance work? lots of jumping? falling? rolling?agreed... yes to all the questions...can we say liability..if you have not read my posts on this subject ..if you are inclined ..check them out...

[Eddie]

We have a solid painted concrete floor. I have never trained on a padded floor (except for the padding on the boxing ring. I had to learn how to break fall on concrete floor, and has never known any other way. Down here, padding is expensive, I would have to sell my car to be able to afford padding for the whole floor area.

But we do have a small padded area for those who want to train like that.

BTW- we have never had injuries from not having padded floors. We have broken noses, broken jaws, face cuts, broken ribs, body injuries, even broken toes, but never injuries from falling.

[tattooedmonk]

We have a solid painted concrete floor. I have never trained on a padded floor (except for the padding on the boxing ring. I had to learn how to break fall on concrete floor, and has never known any other way. Down here, padding is expensive, I would have to sell my car to be able to afford padding for the whole floor area.

But we do have a small padded area for those who want to train like that.

BTW- we have never had injuries from not having padded floors. We have broken noses, broken jaws, face cuts, broken ribs, body injuries, even broken toes, but never injuries from falling. do you train sweeps, take downs, throws and ground work??or do you just striking arts??

[PangQuan]

i train on concrete, thin hard bound carpet.

we have one mat for new/dangerous material, otherwise we just use what we have. ive taken a couple minor injuries due to the concrete, but i can run at full speed and fling myself at asphalt and know how to handle the hardness.

of course i did skate for 10 years, so i could already handle the concrete.

i do enjoy going to the park or on any other soft grassy surface and stepping it up a notch.

[Pork Chop]

agreed... yes to all the questions...can we say liability..if you have not read my posts on this subject ..if you are inclined ..check them out...

I agree with you for the most part. On the other hand, I do prefer jumping rope on concrete- i got bad feet (both flat, one club) so i like jumping with shoes on a surface that'll let me have a decent amount of spring. Everything else though, I find softer surfaces to be much better for long term health.

[tattooedmonk]

I agree with you for the most part. On the other hand, I do prefer jumping rope on concrete- i got bad feet (both flat, one club) so i like jumping with shoes on a surface that'll let me have a decent amount of spring. Everything else though, I find softer surfaces to be much better for long term health.yeah.. it is important to train on different surfaces for different reasons .....you should not train on concrete for throws, take down, sweeps, or ground work...period !! it should not be the surface you use for all your training....and if you are training on concrete.... you should be wearing running shoes to absorb the shock...your joints and bones are not designed to take that type of impact.

[Eddie]

We do allot of throws and allot of sweeps. We practice san shou, and has one of the most successful san shou teams in our country (little bragging of course – sorry for that :cool: ). Point is, we never got used to the luxury of mats, actually, I don’t think any of the schools in our province or even my country use mats. Just too expensive (you are looking at about $60 per m2 – covering the whole floor would cost twice as much as my car is worth – about $12 000).

Im not against it either. If I had the money to get them, I would. Just not sure how you train forms on mats, but guess that’s not such a big deal.

Carpets don’t help much either, and it messes up your shoes. Wooden floors are also to expensive. ;)

[Eddie]

Only luxury of soft surface we have ever had, was the grass lawn outside. I see kids come into our school every day who go for 10kilo jogs in the road barefoot. They grow up, and has no problems at all, but the ones who worry about changing running shoes before they go out for roadwork always end up with all sorts of ailments. We deal with all sorts of people here, from the super poor (people who live in tin shacks with no electricity or plumbing) to the rich kids from the other side of the rails. Personally, I have never had shin splints – I run with my usual feiyue kung fu shoes – I can afford running shoes, just don’t bother about it.

Have you seen the Kenian runners? With no money, no professional training, and no equipment, they still kick a$$. :-)

[tattooedmonk]

We do allot of throws and allot of sweeps. We practice san shou, and has one of the most successful san shou teams in our country (little bragging of course – sorry for that :cool: ). Point is, we never got used to the luxury of mats, actually, I don’t think any of the schools in our province or even my country use mats. Just too expensive (you are looking at about $60 per m2 – covering the whole floor would cost twice as much as my car is worth – about $12 000).

Im not against it either. If I had the money to get them, I would. Just not sure how you train forms on mats, but guess that’s not such a big deal.

Carpets don’t help much either, and it messes up your shoes. Wooden floors are also to expensive. ;) to be honest... in the first school I practiced Shaolin in we had concrete covered by indoor /outdoor carpet..

I have never had a problem with injuries to myself or anyone I have sparred or practiced with( in reference to contact with the floor) the school was smaller and everyone had a great deal of control ..which I have not seen in a long time..

The second school we had was bigger, more people, and more conflicting egos and less control....and plenty of accidents

... it is possible to do this with small groups if you keep the egos under control, keep the practice slow, and everyone stays mindful...

but in larger schools with conflicting egos, everyone going at a higher rate of speed, and less mindfulness on what you are doing..... injuries have and will continue to happen in this type of environment...

after seeing to many loses of students, injuries, and considering the costs and liabilities here it is the best investment all around...

by the way congradulations ...what is the name of your team ??... is there any footage of your sanshou/ sanda matches that we can view??

[SevenStar]

Carpet has a lot of bacteria in it. If a student where to get a cut while on the carpet they might get an infection from it.

Personally I have been training for years on a wood floor. And I have had no problems.
:)


depends on what you're training. I trained CMA on wooden floors for years. but we laid down matts for serious grappling. In judo, we use tatami matts. I gurantee you, after serious randori on hardwood or concrete, most of your students would quit.

[Eddie]

I understand what you mean. We also have allot of problems, but we seem to deal with it. We have some unique problems here too, things like blatant racism, ‘classism’ and sexism (all the sisms you get ), but I think we are doing ok. But having said that, we are mot completely under equipped, I almost make it sound like we some back yard school – which we not ;) .

Im busy editing videos to put on our site. Check out our school site – www.choylayfut.co.za or check out the sites of the local organisations for info on our previous events – sawushufederation.org and sa-kuoshu.com .

I didn’t mean to brag :cool: – hope you didn’t see it as arrogance ;)

[tattooedmonk]

Only luxury of soft surface we have ever had, was the grass lawn outside. I see kids come into our school every day who go for 10kilo jogs in the road barefoot. They grow up, and has no problems at all, but the ones who worry about changing running shoes before they go out for roadwork always end up with all sorts of ailments. We deal with all sorts of people here, from the super poor (people who live in tin shacks with no electricity or plumbing) to the rich kids from the other side of the rails. Personally, I have never had shin splints – I run with my usual feiyue kung fu shoes – I can afford running shoes, just don’t bother about it.

Have you seen the Kenian runners? With no money, no professional training, and no equipment, they still kick a$$. :-) that is one of the best surfaces to train on all around... not to hard not to soft.. I do not wear shoes when I train on natural surfaces....
as for the ones who are worried about the shoes..that is why they get hurt..because there mind is on the shoes( thanx Michael Jordan)..

there is a big difference in dirt roads and concrete / asphalt roads...I am sure there is a difference between concrete/ asphalt there compaired to here!?!?!( consistancy wise).... kenian runners...they were meant to run..it is all instinct..and you are right they are bad ass!!

[Eddie]

Our roads here are tarmac. Not much different to those of the usa.
i think allot of it has to do with mind set. Schools in richer areas (in our country) do things differently. Our school, unfortunatly, we try to accomodate everyone. ;)
Where about are you tattood monk. Im going to be in Florida from the 12th of August

[tattooedmonk]

Our roads here are tarmac. Not much different to those of the usa.
i think allot of it has to do with mind set. Schools in richer areas (in our country) do things differently. Our school, unfortunatly, we try to accomodate everyone. ;)
Where about are you tattood monk. Im going to be in Florida from the 12th of August mind set and genetics..people that are subjected to things like this overtime pass on certain traits which increase their tolerance and resistance to such conditions....

in the u.s. most are pampered, live beyond their means, and do not understand this way of life....

I checked out your web site..impressive...all you need now is some padded floors..hahah...

I am located in the Los Angeles area...

[Chief Fox]

I never realized that I wear shoes because I'm pampered and because of Michael Jordan's influence. I always thought that I wore shoes because 9 months out of the year it's freakin' cold where I live.

But thanks to you guys (tattooedmonk and Eddie), I now see that I am just a pampered sheep. ;)

[tattooedmonk]

I never realized that I wear shoes because I'm pampered and because of Michael Jordan's influence. I always thought that I wore shoes because 9 months out of the year it's freakin' cold where I live.

But thanks to you guys (tattooedmonk and Eddie), I now see that I am just a pampered sheep. ;)..good ...now everybody else who reads this will know it too!!
( is this really how you perceive what we were discussing??)if not... every kingdom needs a court jester!!

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

I recently had a conversation with another student at my school about the type of floor that is best to work out on.

Basically what we have at our school is a carpeted concrete floor. You're not going to slip but it is hard when you fall.

I thought nothing of it. Our Master's explanation was "When someone attacks you on the street you do not have a padded floor.....true, very true. However another student was using a football analogy. He mentioned that many players careers have been cut short due to playing on the much harder (especially the older stuff) artifical surface. I was thinking about that and it makes sense. Once you get a little older and have been working out on the same hard flloor for, let's say, 20 years it's bound to have an adverse affect on your joints.

Right now I have no problems but over time I'm wondering if maybe a padded floor might be best.

Is picking your self off the floor one of your school's secrete techniques? Most schools unless its sport orientated judo, wrestling and a few others practice not going to the floor. In my humble opinion vacuums would work much better than your sifu students bottoms for picking up carpet dust.

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

Is picking your self off the floor one of your school's secrete techniques? Most schools unless its sport orientated judo, wrestling and a few others practice not going to the floor. In my humble opinion vacuums would work much better than your sifu students bottoms for picking up carpet dust.

lol your rolling on the floor secrete techniques entitle it dawg scratching flea's

[David Jamieson]

Frankly I prefer a hard flat surface to train on, but train on a variety of terrain and surfaces. Grass, concrete, puzzle matts, etc.

the floor in my kwoon is part puzzle matt and the rest is concrete. It works out fine.