Kung Fu in Denver

[Kentktx]

Hi all, I'm a transplanted Texan who moved to Denver for school, and I'm looking around for a kung fu school. I trained a few years in Choy Lay Fut (very Americanized version and nontraditional) and BJJ, but have been out of the scene for about four years. At my current age (35), I'd ideally like to find a fairly traditional school that is still laid back and emphasizes sparring to some degree. Cost is also a major factor as I'm back in grad school and living off workstudy and student loans. The schools I've seen in the area are Wah Lum Preying Mantis in South Denver, and White Dragon in the north, and I think a Hung Gar school near Federal. I checked out the Wah Lum school and it looked pretty good, but the cost may be prohibitive. Any other schools or any suggestions from the Denverites on the Forum?

Thanks for your help,

Kent

[PlumDragon]

Kent,

This is kind of a long post, please bear with me:

Welcome, Denver is awesome! I left Denver a few years back but will be returning in the next couple of years. I will be in town next week to get married, and will be doign some training at the Denver AMA as I mention below. If you are interested, please contact me and we can meet up, chat, touch hands, etc...Anyway, onto the goods:...

Heres the scopp in Denver Martial Arts:

- Wah Lum: There is a Wah Lum branch right near Park Meadows mall (about County Line and Yosemite). They are a good lineage and worth checking out.

- White Dragon: There is a White Dragon school (pai lum kung fu) in Ft Collins, NOT of the Glenn C Wilson lineage. This is a good school and I trained there when I was in college. Classes are always a great physical workout. It may be a drive for you though considering you are in Denver.

- Colorado Chapter of Modern Arnis: Located in Greeley, they teach both Northern Shaolin/Long Fist, as well as tai chi/xing yi/bagua, MiZhong (Lost Track Boxing), and a couple other rare styles. I have trained here as well, and while they are very traditional, you will nto get much sparring there despite a good deal of "application work".

- Denver AMA: Teaching primarily Filipino Kali and Silat, this school is probably yoru best bet. They are located in the Denver Tech Center.

- Greenwood Athletic Club (off of Bellweview and Quebec) also has a Kali instructor but I dont know his name.

- In Boulder, there are a couple of internal guys, one is known by Christopher I think. Also, there is a seemingly Korean school which teaches Tang Soo Do and Hapkido, but also teaches a style of Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu which I only know as So Rim. Apparently the Korean master (last name Jung) here spent time at a temple in Northern China. At any rate, I spent some time there many years ago as a teenager and can vouch for the seriousness and intensity that they train by. If youre interested, I can offer you more information on this school.

There are some other schools around but off the top of my head, those are the ones that stand out. Please feel free to contact me if you want any more specific information about any of them. Email is therin@knology.net

EDIT: There is more than this, this is just the stuff that came off the top of my head...

[Kentktx]

Wow, thanks for all the info PlumDragon. I checked out Wah Lum and liked it, but unfortunately they wanted a year committment that I'm just not going to be able to handle given my paltrey student budget. I saw that there is a White Dragon school in Arvada-- I wonder if it's affiliated with the one you trained at in Ft Collins? Were they traditional, emphasize forms, do any over sparring, etc? The one in Greeley sounds very cool, as I've always liked Long Fist and have heard "legendary things" from my old Sifu about Lost Track, but I live in S. Denver and Greeley would be a bit of a drive. I think the So Rim Praying Mantis school has an affiliate in Englewood or somewhere near me, I'm curious about how the Korean influences. I did a search on KOF and one person (Norther Practicioner) was talking about a Long Fist and Tai Chi school in Denver as well. That would be very cool, but I didn't see any reference to this school on the web or the phonebook.

Thanks a lot for the help, PlumDragon, and if anyone else has any info to chip in, it would be much appreciated!

Kent

[PlumDragon]

Kent,

Glad you found the info helpful. Some more for you:

The White Dragon school in Arvada IS affiliated with the Ft Collins school. Sifu Dill runs the Ft Collins school and Sigung Galliano (sifu Dills teacher) runs the Arvada school, so youd be going right to the source at the Arvada school; a good place to train. Galliano I believe was one of the direct students of one of GM Pai's original students. Training at White Dragon will be moderately priced. I belive when I trained at the Ft Collins school I had a special deal and paid $55 a month for 2 classes a week, so...not the cheapest school out there.

The White Dragon schools will give you 3 or 4 forms in your first 6 months but they are not the true pai family art, its really kind of filler I guess, stuff to help you learn how to move your body. The REAL pai lum material comes in the Chinese soft fist form after your 2nd or 3rd test. Its a traditional school. They do teach a good number of forms but youll get your fair share of conditioning, weapon work and sparring; youll do dummy work, limb knocking (and eventually iron palm if you so choose),sparring, 2-man combat sets, etc...you just wont do any of it until you have the basic down pat. They really hammer basics into you in the beginning classes.

The So Rim school USED to have a branch school in Englewood near University and Orchard. This is actually where I trained. It was called Tao of the Scholar Warrior and was a phenomenol school. Unfortunately this school no longer exists. They had problems paying rent so teamed up with a choreography place called Warrior Quest (a ninjitsu school that is not part of the bujinkan). The rest is history...It is however possible they have opened another school in the area since Ive moved. If you want to look further, search in Boulder for a school called New Tradition Martial Arts, I think it is called...it used to be called Jungs School of Old Martial Arts run by Chul Woo Jung. Contact me offline and I can provide you with a packet of lineage and history, etc.

The LongFist/MyZhong school is a far drive but they do only a single class a week, 3 hours on Sunday evening. Its only $40/month so it might actually be worth your drive, at very least to check it out.

I leave for CO tomorrow and have already spoken at length with the Guro at the Denver AMA. Ill let you know how it goes, but it is much less traditional tham the CMA that you seem to be looking for; no forms, lots of alive always evolving training.

At any rate, if youd like to meet up, feel free to contact me and we can set something up. If not, I will also try to keep you updated on what else I think off.... ;)

Take care
Josh

[BoulderDawg]

Let me talk about my school for a monent

http://www.shao-lin.com

The website can describe the forms taught better than I. However I would recommend the school. It's run by Master David Soard and Master Sharon Soard under Grandmaster Sin Kwang Thé.

I enjoy the experience and feel the school is very traditional.

The price is right. A year's membership is only $300.

[PlumDragon]

BoulderDawg,

I mean this with the most respect possible: Regardless where one goes, you'll hear questionable things about Shaolin-Do; its mish-mash of styles, its large collection of forms, its lack of serious martial intent, and of lesser importance its questionable lineage/history; here, MAP, DL, Empty Flower...With that said:

I believe that each individual student should have the right to have a curiculum filled primarily with forms, contemporary wushu-ish, or whatever they want, free from scrutiny, if that is what THEY desire; not everyone cares about fighting. I have talked with a Shaolin-Do guy who claims he has learned something like 70 forms over 20 years and its ok because that is what he desires. However, because of the heat that Shaolin-Do has received, I question the martial intent that is encapsulated within the system.

While Im relaying this information primarily for Kents benefit and I think he should probably just check you guys out on his own accord with an open mind, Id be interested in checking you out myself. If youve been reading the thread you know I will be in Colorado as of tomorrow, June 16. While much of my time is already devoted to other things, if you are interested, Id be happy to try and set up a time to feel your hands. I promised my fiancee I wouldnt do any serious sparring (for cossmetic reasons) before the wedding but Id be happy to touch hands with you and feel your skill. No ego, not a competition, a friendly relaxed meeting to gain some information about "the other" and maybe even chat over an espresso afterwards.

I apologize if this post was semi-offtopic...

[Kentktx]

I appreciate everyone's responses. Personally, my ideal kung fu school would be one that keeps traditional training but is also laid back and includes combat sport training like san shou or shuai chiao. I'm drawn to Chinese martial arts for cultural, artisitic, creative and spiritual reasons, and it would be cool to get immersed in a system that teaches empty fist and weapons forms, keeps cultural traditions, and has internal training as well like Tai Chi. However, I am also a believer in "alive" training (to use Matt Thornton's terminology), and want a broader emphasis than just forms training at this point in my life. That's completely my opinion and interest, and I'm certainly not trying to be offensive or cause a flame war.

My old Choy Lay Fut school was run by an old white Texas guy, and was very nontraditional and relaxed. He dropped all of the eastern religious influences amd culture. We still learned maybe 10 forms, but focused more on point sparring and some free form MMA type training. At that point that was fine with me as I was working in state hospitals and as a counselor at probation, and was more into pure self defense. I also took BJJ and muay thai for about a year, which was hard core and very cool and practical, but I kept getting injured! Now, I'm getting older (35) and am a university student again, so I'm looking for a laid back school that I can just have fun at, get in shape, socialize, etc. It would be really cool to find a CMA school that combines the forms and cultural training, but still has sport training like san shou that I could have fun with in a relaxed fashion without trying to kill anyone or lose brain cells. I don't really want to compete in matches at my age (which always seems like a great idea when one is 20), but I do like that way of training. As I get older I could get further into the system and learn the cultural and internal sides of the art.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a Choy Lay Fut school here in Denver, as in my experience, they often stress fighting and will train san shou, and also have huge amount of forms and traditional training that's fascinating culturally (iron palm, internal wire sets). From what I gather, the Wah Lum school spars some and will train san shou if anyone has an upcoming match, and does include shuai chiao further on the system. Although not outrageous, their prices were probably a bit high for what I can afford right now, though.

PlumDragon-- I will check out the White Dragon school and the Denver AMA school. They both look good. I like much of the JKDC style and approach, and that would work fine if I can't find a CMA school I like. BoulderDawg-- I'm aware of Shaolin-Do and its history, and it's probably not for me. But I appreciate your suggestion.

Also, PlumDragon-- that would be cool to workout with you. I will have to drag my lazy butt off the couch, so don't expect a lot as I'm way out of shape and haven't trained in 3 years! Send me an email.

Thanks for everyone's input on the Denver scene. I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes, all the above is just my opinion.

Kent

[BoulderDawg]

To each his own I guess.

In the short time I've been training at the Chinese Shaolin Center I've gotten in better shape, Learned proper punching and kicking techniques and various weapons and empty hand forms.

These are my goals and the goal of many others at my school. I'm not really sure what the criticism of Shaolin-Do are and, at this stage, could really care less. Grandmaster Thé said "if you are looking for a school to compete then I advise you to go elsewhere". Maybe this is the problem. We are not involved in the more high profile activities of other schools.

As far as the lineage goes: I'm not going to base my choice of schools on that. "Questionable"?......Don't know and don't care as long as the program gives me what I want. However I don't believe Grandmaster Thé is lying about it.

In any case I kinda equate it to going to an Ivy league school. In most cases you can get the same quality education at a state run institution however you just don't have the name attached to it.

[htowndragon]

the hung gar school on federal also teaches choy lay fut

my homeboy trains there but they dont spar much, they do it outside of class. my homeboy can fight cuz hez just that type of guy. they do teach application, but lion dancing also seems to be a huge part of their school

pai lum trains the traditional way apparently, ive talked to some of their people, and im friends with josh, but after daniel k pai, the style is no longer really "chinese"... i have no comment on their fighting ability, ive seen a mix. but to call it traditional is kind of controversial.

there is also a shaolin hong mei pai school in boulder, but i dont recommend it based on one demo i have seen.

gao style ba gua guys i denver are good

i live in fort collins and i do gong style but im going back to houston for college. actally UT Austin but yeah...

[htowndragon]

about the hung gar school

their lineage is a hung family lineage brought to vietnam. the teacher learned from a monk in a temple as a young boy in vietnam. its a hung family lineage from what i remember that was brought to vietnam by the monk. at least thats what i remember from looking at their alter in their school. also learned choy lay fut from a chinese guy, i think he told me it was chan family.

the original students of the teacher had strong stances compared to the new ones. accordign to my friend who was his #2 student, they used to get whipped with a stick on their legs if their stance wasnt right.

but a lot of people quit due to the training so the teeacher became a lot more laid back

[Becca]

Hi all, I'm a transplanted Texan who moved to Denver for school, and I'm looking around for a kung fu school. I trained a few years in Choy Lay Fut (very Americanized version and nontraditional) and BJJ, but have been out of the scene for about four years. At my current age (35), I'd ideally like to find a fairly traditional school that is still laid back and emphasizes sparring to some degree. Cost is also a major factor as I'm back in grad school and living off workstudy and student loans. The schools I've seen in the area are Wah Lum Preying Mantis in South Denver, and White Dragon in the north, and I think a Hung Gar school near Federal. I checked out the Wah Lum school and it looked pretty good, but the cost may be prohibitive. Any other schools or any suggestions from the Denverites on the Forum?

Thanks for your help,

Kent

Welcome to Denver! Some info: There are two White Dragon (Pai Lum) schools in the immediate area, both under Long shr Galiano. One is in Arvada, the other in Thornton. Cost is $20 per week. And yes, both are indeed affiliated with the Ft. Collins school as well as the one in Longmont. :)

[matt]

oh my god you mean you can find real martial arts here the best i have seen is the tai chi school in fort collins cheng man ching liniage i got a first hand demo when i was younger the guys skill speaks for itself but we had conflicting personalitys so i dont train there. besides that i would say most other schools i have been to in colorado are kinda cheesy. there is some realy good karate guys around this area fort collins. id send you there first i have trained outside the state on a few occasions with very good teachers and nothing i have seen in this area is even close


bugg

[Becca]

How hard did you look?:confused:

There's quite a bit of good martial arts, so long as you don't mind the lack of decent competition...

Other than White Dragon, there's also a fantastic Wah Lum school, some first rate Silate. There's Tai Chi in Westminster, San Soo in Arvada, and Wing Chun in Edgewater.

As for Japanese stuff, there's Enshin Karate taught by Kancho Ninomiya and Aikido taught by Gaku Homma, the last live-in student of Morihei Ueshiba. There's also a very nice selection of MMA-based gyms and schools.

If you can't find anything you like, it's because you ain't really looking.:rolleyes:

[htowndragon]

ive heard good things about enshin sabaki challenge

[csckungfuguy]

hey kent drop me a pm

i live in denver and would like to hook up and let you know what i have found here

[MasterKiller]

The So Rim school USED to have a branch school in Englewood near University and Orchard. This is actually where I trained. It was called Tao of the Scholar Warrior and was a phenomenol school. Unfortunately this school no longer exists. They had problems paying rent so teamed up with a choreography place called Warrior Quest (a ninjitsu school that is not part of the bujinkan). The rest is history...It is however possible they have opened another school in the area since Ive moved. If you want to look further, search in Boulder for a school called New Tradition Martial Arts, I think it is called...it used to be called Jungs School of Old Martial Arts run by Chul Woo Jung. Contact me offline and I can provide you with a packet of lineage and history, etc.

http://www.sorimkungfu.com/

They have Lin Pan Zhang lineage.

[QuackenBush]

Other than White Dragon, there's also a fantastic Wah Lum school, some first rate Silate. There's Tai Chi in Westminster, San Soo in Arvada, and Wing Chun in Edgewater.

Do those White Dragon schools or that San Soo school have a web page at all?

Anyone know of some good internal schools, particularly on the west side of town?

I've found these two:

Sin Lung Kwoon
http://www.enetworkmarketing.com/tangshoutao/tangshoutao.swf
(This one seems like it's just what I'm looking for - curious to know if anyone has any experience with it.)

Taoist Tai Chi Society
http://colorado.usa.taoist.org/index.html

I've been studing TKD in Golden for the last two years and am desperate for something different.

[norther practitioner]

Do I open my mouth now... or should I wait?

[QuackenBush]

Do I open my mouth now... or should I wait?

Well you've certainly got my curiousity up. I've done a lot of searching on this board before posting, but yet I still have no idea what you're alluding to.

[Becca]

Do I open my mouth now... or should I wait?

Na. Say it; you definantly know more about internal schools in the area than anyone else on this board. :)

[norther practitioner]

..... All the Shaolin Do stuff...

Kent, simply do a search on the board about shaolin do on this board and make a decision to go check them out for yourself, there are a few schools around the Denver area.



Welcome to Denver! Some info: There are two White Dragon (Pai Lum) schools in the immediate area, both under Long shr Galiano. One is in Arvada, the other in Thornton. Cost is $20 per week. And yes, both are indeed affiliated with the Ft. Collins school as well as the one in Longmont.

The times I was in the area and watched a little of the classes @ Becca's school, it looked pretty good, but a bit different from what you've learned so far style wise I'd assume.


Well you've certainly got my curiousity up. I've done a lot of searching on this board before posting, but yet I still have no idea what you're alluding to.

Not alluding to much as far as scandle type stuff. Just some observations, haven't really posted much in the last year or two, as I discontinued my training about a year and a half ago now.

I studied Northern Long Fist (a little of a conglomeration of a few different Northern Forms) for a few years with Christophe (his school is off of Mississippi between Fed. and Bway).
He's one hell of a forms teacher, and has produced some very good fighters (I didn't do much on that end with him). Christophe's main thing is Yang taiji, but is certainly a very compitent teacher in regards to the NLF. MK has seen me do my forms that I learned from Christophe and is fairly respected around these parts (for what I don't know :p ) for his opinion.
I learned a bunch of long fist forms, tan tui, a few northern staff forms, a few northern broadsword forms, etc... we did a decent amount of two person drills as well.

Starchaser107's (who also hasn't been around these parts in a while) wife studied a little hung gar about 3 or 4 years ago from the school on or near Federal and I seem to remember him thinking it was pretty good. Shoot him a PM and see if he responds.
There is the Wah Lum school, but you said you've already visited that school so I won't go into that.

Internal wise, The Taoist people as described by one of my older kung fu and taiji sisters after seeing some of their taiji, "They do old people taiji."

I've heard a few things about the Tang Shou Tao people, but don't know too much about what their doing so I'll refrain from comment. I'd recommend going to their school and checking them out. Go check out Christophe's school too, there are a few different things going on their taiji wise now from what I understand. There is a good bagua guy I saw, no idea if he's still teaching or not. I'm going down to Denver sometime this week and will find out who is still teaching and where when I'm down there and will comment more.

I doubt you'll want to drive up to Boulder, I'll skip that stuff too.

I agree with ~ 90% of Plumdragon's evaluations of the schools he talks about but mostly from comments from others (which have been respectable sources).

[Chief Fox]

Hey NP! What's up man? What are you up to these days?

[norther practitioner]

Hey NP! What's up man? What are you up to these days?
Moving to Aspen in a few weeks.

[Shaolinlueb]

Moving to Aspen in a few weeks.

lucky man!

[Chief Fox]

Moving to Aspen in a few weeks.

I used to live in Aspen. What a great place. You going to be a ski bum or do you have real work there?

When I was there in 1993 (13 years ago!:eek: ) I worked at the Breeze ski rentals right at the base of the Gondola. Man I had some good times there.

Ajax Mtn. is a great mountain but for me Highlands and Snowmass were my favorites.

I recommend the ski bum life to any and everyone for at least a year.

Typical Aspen day:
1. Wake up hung over.
2. Ride your bike or take the bus to work.
3. Hang out with your friends all day (aka work)
4. On your breaks go skiing or snowboarding.
5. After work go grab a 12 pack and hang out with your buds.
6. Go to Su Casa for Margaritas
7. Let the night happen. Sometimes we would go to a club called the Tippler right at the base of Ajax. It's not there anymore but there were so many fights in that place we used to call it the Crippler. I actually saw a guy get smashed in the head with one of those thick glass beer mugs. Crazy fun.

Have fun man.

[norther practitioner]

I know the mountains fairly well, I figure it'll take me a few years to get to know them like I know the Vail resorts. I actually have real work there. I'll be the new P. County Engineer. Office will be in and around ABC, across from the airport. I got a place to live in Snowmass for the time being.

[Becca]

That sounds like a fantastic position! Good luck!:)

[villain]

about the hung gar school

they used to get whipped with a stick on their legs if their stance wasnt right.

but a lot of people quit due to the training so the teeacher became a lot more laid back

haha, yeah - that sounds like Sifu Ha :-) I don't know that I would call him laid back these days, but moreso yeah :-)

[goju]

about the white dragonschool in arvada what do the teach exactly?

also dont bother with sd lol unless you wanna learn to fight like this

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=UEdxaWxGcWuRpSlIyUWM&glove-sparring-chinese-shaolin-center-denver-part-1

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=MmJzYzlacWuRpTUFUZE0&glove-sparring-chinese-shaolin-center-denver-part-2

[PlumDragon]

Wow, this is an old thread...


about the white dragonschool in arvada what do the teach exactly?Well, they teach White Dragon Kung Fu. Alot of the beginner material is kempo-ish but they train hard and build a good foundation--good group of guys. Once you get to the soft-fist form about 6 months in to training, it becomes more Kung fu-ey. I spent a lot of time conditioning when I was there (limb knocking, wooden dummy, iron hand).

In the last year or 2, theres a new place in Evergreen teaching several different arts...

[SnowDog]

PlumDragon

I noticed way back in this thread you mentioned the Denver AMA school. Did you ever go and train there? If so, how was it?

I'm trying to get back in the MA game this year and that school looked interesting (and really close to my house) so spoke w/ the Guru over the phone before Christmas time, and I'm supposed to contact them back in a week or so to set up a intro class the begining of Feb.

Since I don't know anyone who has gone there, and you mentioned it in this thread, I just wanted to hear what your thoughts on it were.

Thanks.

[PlumDragon]

Hi snowdog,

If youre looking for FMA in that exact area, then Guro Mondee is probably your only choice.

Coincidentally, I was not able to go back and visit the AMA due to time constraints, so I cannot tell you any real additional info about the school. The reason I mentioned the AMA in the thread though, was because Guro Mondees teachers are also the teachers of one of my past teachers, so she was in a way my "cousin" in arms...Sorry I couldnt be more help on the matter.

[SnowDog]

Thanks for responding,

Too bad you weren't able to make it back and train there, I would have loved to have a 1st hand account.

I have been wanting to try FMA/ JKDC stuff for a while now and that's why that one caught my eye. I'm glad to hear you know of Guru Mondee. When I first found them the other schools/ instructors they have linked to their website are pretty well known and legit so that was a good sign, and having someone else in the MA community know of her is even a better sign. Can't wait to try it out.


Thanks Again