Ruan Dong...

[Mashi]

Hi, :)
I am looking for any students of Sifu Ruan Dong of Fuzhou, China.
I am taking a trip to Fuzhou in September and am looking for any information like accommodation, good places to eat, places of interest, that sort of thing.
Does anyone know of any of his students?
Thanks

Peter

[Hualong]

:) Hey Mashi,
I was there last year, PM me and i'll give you the contact details, there is also a yahoo group you can join if you would like to discuss the style also.
Hope to talk to you soon.

Hualong

[Mashi]

Hi Hualong

Check your private messages.

Peter :)

[Minghequan]

:) Hualong,

Please send me information on the Yahoo group you mentioned!

[Mufahok]

Thought I share this:-

Many Fuzhou Crane teachers are now available for private or group tuition. You can choose to study for anything like a month to a year in China with them.

No special requirements except paying the fees involved. In other words, anyone interested could have access.

You could contact the Fuzhou Wushu Commitee for details or sign up with Dennis Ngo's organisation for their packages. No sweat. If you read Mandarin, just google the many Chinese websites regarding this;tons of info.

http://www.kungfu-taichi.com/servlet/kungfoo/Action/TravelHub/

Many of these teachers are willing to talk just about anything about BaiHe. In fact, many instructional Dvds are on the way. Ruan Dong got his out and they are eaily available for less than US20 bucks even in the US.

More releases are on the way.

[Minghequan]

Yes you can go through groups like Wushu Scholar although they are quite expensive! Much better to deal with Great Master Ruan Dong directly!

The VCD is a three volume set dealing with the HuaBaBu form and is available via Plum Publications:

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd3/coll_craneboxing.htm

[Mufahok]

The form on that Cd is "Eight Linked Steps" or "Babulien". Written very clearly on the Cd sleeve "BaBuLien" in Mandarin.

"Huababu" is translated to "Neutralizing Eight Steps" a form that is no longer done in Ruan's Crane.

Plus Ruan is now openly declaring ties with Goju-Ryu karate, accepting them into his MingHe family.

Is this your stand?

[Mufahok]

Dennis Ngo has been appointed as the "Chief" of a "White Crane Research Committee" sanctioned by the Wushu authority of Fuzhou.

He is the liasion guy for all their programmes.

Might be relatively more expensive but he is the main man to deal with the Fuzhou teachers. Their "marketing man" so to speak.

[GeneChing]

I'd seek him out directly. At his age, he's one of the elders. Always seek out the living elders. They are our most treasured.

I captured his complete form for competition on my DVD Shaolin Trips: The First World Traditional Wushu Festival (http://www.martialartsmart.net/dvd-gc001.html). His demonstration is towards the end, if memory serves. Also see An Interview with White Crane Master Ruan Dong By Chen Pengcheng in our 2003 July/August issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=351). :cool:

[Mufahok]

I'd seek him out directly. At his age, he's one of the elders. Always seek out the living elders. They are our most treasured.


Yes, for someone conversant in Mandarin or this case heavyly accented Fuzhou Mandarin.

In his Cd, many terminologies/phrases were given out using horizontal translations from Fuzhou to Mandarin.

A typical Mandarin speaker would find it uneasy to fully appreciate.

A similar for instance would be talking to someone from Shan Dong. Most times their Mandarin expressions are very unique making it tough for most Mandarin speakers.

Many of the Baji, ShanDong TangLang, 3 Cannons Royal Fists, Cha Quan and even Hsing I video materials from Northern China carry this kind of Mandarin.

[Mashi]

Mufahok, GeneChing, thanks for that information. :)

Sounds like you need a translator Minghequan..:p

Peter

[GeneChing]

...I've trained under many masters even though I didn't understand their native tongue. It's certainly not optimal, but I've never let a language barrier stop me. Kung Fu is a physical skill, and many masters can teach using body language; many students can learn just by watching. You might not be able to get all the theoretic or philosophic underpinnings, but that doesn't mean you won't get anything at all. There are always many obstacles to training, but never let something like a language barrier intimidate you. You can get it if you really want.

[Mufahok]

Agreed.

Kung Fu is physical, constant lifelong polishing.

Reason why, years are spent with a Master to allow for this polishing.

I am ethnic Fukien Chinese. My teachers are mostly MingNam Fukienese. Language wise; no problem.

Yet, I was made to spend tremendous time, without much verbal transmission, doing simple physical routines.

The theories and principles came much later. When one’s ready.

So if you are going to China to have a “taste”; no problem.

If you are planning to seriously pick up essence, communication is a smaller hurdle.

Insufficient time should be your most concern. This ain’t the movies; no instant Kung Fu.

Unless you're there to have pictures taken with the Master and tell stories.

[Mashi]

Mufahok, Gene, thankyou for your advice. :)

I will be going in September for a taste. Then if i like the taste i shall be going back for Tea...

Minghequan, just noticed that you sell that cd on your site, or is the cd on your site Huababa ? :confused:

Peter.

[Mufahok]

Best of luck to you.

Ruan is famed for revamping Minghe into one long form.

If you could get that; Brillant!:)

[Mashi]

Hi Mufahok,
Good advice, as usual,, but tell me something????
How can Ruan Dong’s student not know Ruan Dong’s System???
:confused:
Peter

[Mufahok]

Interesting.

Ask Ruan for the full story when you meet him.

Let's not speculate. Not something you wanna do in Kung Fu; be certain.:)

[Minghequan]

As stated on our web site and elsewhere, the simple truth is Great Master Ruan Dong is the Technical Master and Advisor to the White Crane Research Institute. One of our members secured his services when he was in Fuzhou in 2005. We are currently negotiating to have great Master Ruan Dong visit Australia.

We are not interested in politics .... just the martial arts and further research and learning. We bow to those who have more knowledge than ourselves.

Mufahok, do you know Sifu Feng Wu? His Calling Crane is very good.

Mufahok, can you direct us to the Yahoo group for Calling Crane?

Many thanks.

[Mufahok]

I belong to one such discussion group comprising mainly of Crane practitioners from Asia. We use Mandarin.

When your name was mentioned, almost all members rejected.

Don’t know why but that the way it is.

Most overseas Chinese don’t acknowledge mainland MingHe. For us, the line there stopped the generation after Xia Zhong Xian.

Almost all his descendents left mainland and established themselves outside China.

Similar to Taiwan’s Feeding Crane and Malaysia’s Flying Crane, the heart of MingHe is possibly the Fuzhou community in Singapore which saw the biggest flock of MingHe masters during the communist political turmoil. Some of these Singapore masters might have returned to resurrect MingHe; I am not sure. For more exact history, you might want to talk to Li Kang, the Hong Kong Kung Fu researcher.

Just in case, I am not MingHe .

MuFaHok refers to “Plum Blossom Crane”.

I am curious; have you met Ruan in-person?

[Minghequan]

Mufahok,

Thank you for sharing the informatrion with me.

Can you ask the people on the Yahoo list you mentione3d if they have ever heard of one Jamie Scuffell.

Jamie Scuffell claims to be an "inheritor" of Flying Crane and claims to be a lineage holder of the "Shen Zhao Pai Fujian White Crane" (Feihequan) under a Master Lui Hong Shen (1923 -2002).

Cna you tell me more about Plum Plossom White Crane! Are you a teacher and where are you located?

[FunkySage]

When your name was mentioned, almost all members rejected.


LOL..... :D

[Minghequan]

What can I say, I have rather "controversial" views:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/p48.htm

:)

[Mufahok]

Don’t want to repeat the details here but I think the consensus is that more than your views are controversial.

About your question; why can’t you approach the Flying Crane people direct? They are not that difficult to contact.

So again; have you ever met Ruan in person?

[Mufahok]

More on Ruan's MingHe:-

Calling Crane (Ming He)
Master Ruan Dong
Register for more info

“Calling Crane Wushu, or Ming He Quan, is characterized by the breathing techniques used to express energy - thus "calling" crane. Rapid, swirling hand movements combined with delicate jumps and the calling sounds result in a stunning display. It was invented by the famous Master Xie Zhong Xiang towards the end of the 19th century in Fuzhou City. Master Xie is a famous name in the history of Wushu, well known not only in China, but also in Okinawa and Japan, where he is given the nickname Ryu Ryu Ko, a variation of Chinese Ru Ru Ge. Many of Okinawan Karate styles draw their lineage from him.

WS Magazine Calling Crane Articles & Videos “

Taken from: - http://www.kungfu-taichi.com/servlet/kungfoo/Action/SeminarHub/

Ruan is in the forefront in supporting the MingHe/Karate ties.

[Mashi]

:) :)
Hi Mufahok, Geneching, everyone else,
I have made contact with Shifu Ruan Dong’s people and thank you for your help.
Thank you…..

Peter :)

[Mufahok]

Brillant!

Hope you like Chinese tea.

Remember, no sugar and must be a little bitter.:) :)

[Hualong]

I have no wish to get involved in the politics of my brothers but since Mr. Ron Goninan is not answering the question maybe I will for you.

Ruan Dong has “Never” met Ron Goninan in his life. Mr. Ron Goninan sent Ruan a video of himself. As stated by Ron Goninan in a post on Martialtalk forums,



Posted by Shifu (Ron Goninan 6-22-2006) Martial Talk Forums.
“As stated clearly, I was viewed in May 2005. A Technical Advisor is just that, someone who advises on technical issues such as techniques and forms etc.”:confused:

“He is my Sifu. He saw me and made several rather kind statements, that is he "VIEWED" my White Crane.” :eek:




As far as we see this he has no teacher, never as. He is using Ruan Dongs name to further himself, but instead of this he is making a mockery of the art. :(

Hualong

[Minghequan]

Hualong,

You have only made two posts on this entire forum and both are about this subject. You don't wish to enter into politcs yet you make such a negative a post and personalised attack against me? Having never met me nor having any understanding of my relationship with great Master Ruan Dong you make negative and political statements.

Sorry Sir but you ARE being political. Are you asscociated with that Fraud Jamie Scuffell as I suspect you are? Perhaps you'd care to identify yourself by name instead of hiding behind the "Hualong" name? Perhaps you were known as "Jenner" on Martial Talk? If so then you were warned several times about your politics by the moderator there.

No sir I did not "send" any video to Master Ruan Dong! You are plainly and simply wrong. As clearly stated previously, Great Master Ruan Dong (Whom I respect highly hence my desire to keep his name out of the petty politics of persons such as yourself) has agreed to be the White Crane Research Institute's Technical Master and Advisor. This I have in writing from Great Master Ruan Dong. This is the degree of our relationship. One of my respected students and members visited Master Ruan Dong to learn his art and to return with such knowledge to share. I am in the process of having Great Master Ruan Dong visit with us to further both our knowledge and his art .... that is if you would keep your sad politics out of it as it is a matter between myself and Great Master Ruan Dong!

I'll not allow myself to lower myself, this forum nor the arts by entering into your sad and pathetic politics. I am here on this forum to learn, not play politics.

It would be appreciated if you would keep your sad and unfortunate politics to yourself.

[Hualong]

You have only made two posts on this entire forum and both are about this subject. You don't wish to enter into politcs yet you make such a negative a post and personalised attack against me? Having never met me nor having any understanding of my relationship with great Master Ruan Dong you make negative and political statements.

Reply,
I came on here to answer a post from ‘Mashi’ to contact Ruan Dongs students. Then you came on and answered him too. I stayed and watched when you were asked if you have ever met Ruan Dong, which you would not answer, or is it that you cannot answer. :confused:

Sorry Sir but you ARE being political. Are you asscociated with that Fraud Jamie Scuffell as I suspect you are? Perhaps you'd care to identify yourself by name instead of hiding behind the "Hualong" name? Perhaps you were known as "Jenner" on Martial Talk? If so then you were warned several times about your politics by the moderator there.

Reply,
You are claiming to be a student of Ruan Dong and you are not. That’s not political, that’s the truth.
I have never met Jamie Scuffell, nor Jenner, sorry.
My name is Jonathan. :)

No sir I did not "send" any video to Master Ruan Dong! You are plainly and simply wrong. As clearly stated previously, Great Master Ruan Dong (Whom I respect highly hence my desire to keep his name out of the petty politics of persons such as yourself) has agreed to be the White Crane Research Institute's Technical Master and Advisor.

Reply,
You said he ‘viewed’ you. :confused:

This I have in writing from Great Master Ruan Dong. This is the degree of our relationship.

Reply,
Ruan Dong speaks a mandarin dialect (I think it is a local dialect), and does not speak English.
Do you read Mandarin? :)

One of my respected students and members visited Master Ruan Dong to learn his art and to return with such knowledge to share. I am in the process of having Great Master Ruan Dong visit with us to further both our knowledge and his art …

Reply,
How can you further the art of Whooping Crane. You don’t even know his forms. :confused:

It would be appreciated if you would keep your sad and unfortunate politics to yourself.

Reply,
Sure, have you ever met Ruan Dong? :)

Hualong

[Blacktiger]

Our Master caught up with Master Ruan Dong last week as they are friends - he was back in Fuzhou catching up with a few of the Zi Ran Men lads.

There was talk that he may be out in Australia soon.

[Hualong]

Hi Blacktiger,

I hope that he does go down to Oz, it will be great for the promotion of his style. Ruan is a good teacher and a good practitioner.

Hualong

[Minghequan]

Hualong,

Please check you PM's.

Please send me your email address as I would like to write to you:

My email is:

tsuruken@austarnet.com.au

[jethro]

You have only made two posts on this entire forum and both are about this subject. You don't wish to enter into politcs yet you make such a negative a post and personalised attack against me? Having never met me nor having any understanding of my relationship with great Master Ruan Dong you make negative and political statements.

Reply,
I came on here to answer a post from ‘Mashi’ to contact Ruan Dongs students. Then you came on and answered him too. I stayed and watched when you were asked if you have ever met Ruan Dong, which you would not answer, or is it that you cannot answer. :confused:

Sorry Sir but you ARE being political. Are you asscociated with that Fraud Jamie Scuffell as I suspect you are? Perhaps you'd care to identify yourself by name instead of hiding behind the "Hualong" name? Perhaps you were known as "Jenner" on Martial Talk? If so then you were warned several times about your politics by the moderator there.

Reply,
You are claiming to be a student of Ruan Dong and you are not. That’s not political, that’s the truth.
I have never met Jamie Scuffell, nor Jenner, sorry.
My name is Jonathan. :)

No sir I did not "send" any video to Master Ruan Dong! You are plainly and simply wrong. As clearly stated previously, Great Master Ruan Dong (Whom I respect highly hence my desire to keep his name out of the petty politics of persons such as yourself) has agreed to be the White Crane Research Institute's Technical Master and Advisor.

Reply,
You said he ‘viewed’ you. :confused:

This I have in writing from Great Master Ruan Dong. This is the degree of our relationship.

Reply,
Ruan Dong speaks a mandarin dialect (I think it is a local dialect), and does not speak English.
Do you read Mandarin? :)

One of my respected students and members visited Master Ruan Dong to learn his art and to return with such knowledge to share. I am in the process of having Great Master Ruan Dong visit with us to further both our knowledge and his art …

Reply,
How can you further the art of Whooping Crane. You don’t even know his forms. :confused:

It would be appreciated if you would keep your sad and unfortunate politics to yourself.

Reply,
Sure, have you ever met Ruan Dong? :)

Hualong

it looks a bit different, but is that you RD?

[Royal Dragon]

No















.................................................. .................................................. ...............................

[Minghequan]

No it is not Royal Dragon. He has been good enough not to enter into any politics which I respect greatly.

The matter has been dealt with directly.

[jethro]

Sorry. I Am Bad At The Quotes Also So Looks Like We Got A third. I Do Wish There Was A tutorial......,.!?!*#*/.......1

[Hualong]

Hi Jethro, :)
No it is not Royal Dragon.

Minghequan (Ron Goninan),
When I got your email I was going to leave this topic alone and then you go and post something stupid.


The matter has been dealt with directly.

You have not answered any questions that were put to you in this thread and you certainly have not dealt with me directly…

Where shall I begin?
I came on this forum to answer Mashi’s post.
Seeing as I have a contact for Ruan Dong and also belong to a discussion group on the subject, I thought that I would help him.

You said in an above post, and I quote, “It would be appreciated if you would keep your sad and unfortunate politics to yourself”. :confused:

You then send me private messages saying,
message,

Hi Hualong (Jonathan),

Please allow me the opportunity of replying to your questions. I do so via PM as I have clearly stated that it is my aim to keep Great Master Ruan Dong's name free of the negative politics of others.

My student visited and trained with Great Master Ruan Dong in May 2005 and represented our White Crane Research Institute (WCRI) with honor and integrity. He also passed on my desire to link up with Great Master Ruan Dong and his Calling Crane Wushu Research Association of Fuzhou and passed on information regarding myself which was viewed very favourably by Great Master Ruan Dong.

Reply,
Ruan Dong is a very good teacher and this has nothing to do with his good name.

message,

Great Master Ruan Dong agreed to become the Technical Master/Advisor to the WCRI and stated so in a letter given to my by my student complete with his seals etc.

Reply,
Are these the same seals that you have photocopied onto your website pages?

We are now working very hard to have Great Master Ruan Dong visit Australia to further his art and to spread his art. We are quite serious about making this happen and in protecting our friendship with Great Master Ruan Dong so we naturally wish to avoid any of the unfortunate politics of others who seek to drag our efforts down or to cause harm to the good name of Great Master Ruan Dong .... One such person is the White Crane Fraud Jamie Scuffell and the other is one Mr. Eric Ling who has made several nasty comments about the authencity of Great Master Ruan Dong.

Reply,
You say that you “wish to avoid any of the unfortunate politics of others”, and then you accuse Jamie Scuffell and Eric Ling of trying to cause harm to the good name of Ruan Dong. Can you prove this accusation?

I do not know Jamie Scuffell and the only reference to him that I can find on the Internet is by you.
I believe that Eric Ling is a senior Fuzhou Minghequan stylist, and from what I have been told from reliable sources he is an excellent player. Where does Eric Ling make these “nasty comments”?

Then you send me another message.
message,

How are you connected to Great Master Ruan Dong?

I am cautious of people using "Hotmail" accounts as this is what the absolute White Crane Fraud Jamie Scuffell uses, making out he is other people for the purpose of gathering info and plying his politics.

Reply,
I’ll say it again, I have never met the man, but I have made enquiries.
I have studied in Fuzhou on two occasions and found Shifu Ruan Dong to be an excellent teacher and a very good man at heart. Since you are claiming Ruan to be your Sifu I did some checking.
Did you know that if you type in the words ‘Ron Goninan’ into google it comes up like a bad rash? :eek:
Let me save you the time of looking.

12 – 30 – 2001
You are the second ever westerner to gain access to ‘little known Lio, Chin-Long Family Paihequan Wuyangkuan Crane-Fist style and lineage of Taiwan’.

I believe this is Feeding Crane.

12 – 28 – 2003
You announce that Dong Mu-Yao is your teacher.

I believe this is Fuzhou He Quan

06 – 23 – 2004
You claim to teach and house the rare art of ‘Hood Chew Pak Hok’.

This I believe is Eric Ling of Fuzhou Minghequan, the one that you have been accusing.

2005, you claim that your teacher is a Flying Crane Sifu and he has just written a book.
That would not be Lorne Bernard would it?

You must be a mountain of knowledge knowing all the main crane styles but yet you cannot say who your teacher is, baffling…
If you would like me to post the links to these claims just say so.
Just from the above you can see that you have claimed every White Crane style to be your own without any prior training in the art.

You are a liar and a charlatan, and when Patrick McCarthy caught you out you wrote this;

From: Ron Goninan
To: Patrick McCarthy
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work.
Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl.
Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once. It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live.
I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background.
I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions.
In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research.

Now before you say that this is all in the past, and all that humble crap that spews from your mouth when you find yourself questioned, I will put it to you that you are still a LIAR and a CHARLATAN.

Can you give any proof of your connection to any Minghequan teacher?
And this does not mean a student of yours talking to one. :rolleyes:

The forms on your website can be found on the Internet, do you know any Minghequan that is NOT commercially available?
That means not from books, video’s, vcd’s, dvd’s or the like.

Your website is a mish mash of white crane information from different styles and mostly plagiarized from books or others websites. I see that you were selling White Crane vcd’s, why did you not know the name of the form on the vcd when it was written plainly on the cover, I mean, this is the style you do, right?

Now this is not political, it is the TRUTH.

This is from just looking at the first couple of pages after typing your name in google.
You like to say that you are controversial, you are not.
Your whole website is your biography of yourself. The only accurate statement that you say about yourself is “ I am a person, not a martial artist”.

There is a saying, ‘Where there is smoke there is fire’, and the whole Whooping Crane community can see you sending serious smoke signals. :eek:

I personally don’t care what you do, but if you are going to claim Ruan Dong as your teacher then at least have the humility to be honest and open about it. :)

And don’t throw your petty agendas at me I am not interested. :eek:
As far as I am concerned ‘ If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and goes quack, it’s a duck’. :eek:

If you wish to carry this on keep going, I will be more than happy to make sure that Ruan Dongs people see this thread, and then maybe he will see you for what you are…

A DUCK. :(

Hualong.


P.S. Minghequan, why do you sign you emails Gan Ren Nu? :confused:

[Blacktiger]

Wowzaz :eek:

[jethro]

Yeah That Took 5 Pages To Get Through It On My Phone. You Came To Type!..........

[Hualong]

Hi ,
I would just like to apologize to any Duck stylists who were insulted by my last post. :)

Hualong

[FunkySage]

I would just like to apologize to any Duck stylists who were insulted by my last post.

I'm not a duck stylist, but I'm sure they'd forgive you . And you know what for the entertainment of your post in exposing Ron, hey I forgive you ... in duck... quack quack

[Mufahok]

Hi,

Decided a while back not to be involved in this thread but after reading Hualong’s post, I am back.

Only because Sifu Eric Ling is mentioned.

I met Sifu Ling a couple of times in Singapore. I was introduced and we spoke briefly about Kung Fu. He has since left Singapore and is now in Sarawak I believe.

I am, however, very close with his kung fu elder brother, Sifu Chen Tien Ngoon, the performer in the White Crane clips I posted.

Spoke to him before writing this; just to check on a few things.

And this is what I got from his Sihing:-

• Sifu Ling would not “pass nasty remarks” about Ruan Dong. Sifu Ling is taught by the late GM Xia Mu Tai who was directly (blood) related to Xia Zhong Xiang. Now the latter Xia is supposed to be Ruan’s teacher. In effect, that would make Ruan and Ling “family”. According to Sifu Chen, Eric is fully aware of this family ties and he would never make any disrespectful gesture of any type towards Ruan.

• Sifu Chen did mention that the only possible “conflict” is perhaps Sifu Ling’s stance on MingHe in relation to Ruan’s. Eric’s line believes that Ling Shixian was the founder of MingHe. Ruan, on the other hand, see Xia Zhong Xiang as the founder. Eric’s family is related to Ling Shixian.

Chen went on to explain that Eric got his first MingHe training from his father and uncles. This style of MingHe is now known as the “old” style among the Fuzhou in Singapore. Instead of doing the 4 or 5 forms commonly associated with MingHe, Eric’s line does 12.

Eric went on to train with GM Xie Mu Tai because Xie was, at that point, closely associated with another of Xie Zhong Xiang student, Huang Xin Xian.
Huang introduced the Tai Chi elements into MingHe and Eric wanted to learn this “softer” version. The Chinese kung fu world knows of Huang more as a student of Cheng Men Ching.



Thanks.

Ps. now you know where I got info about MingHe system. Got them from Sifu Chen, my White Crane mentor at the moment.

[Minghequan]

I will not enter into negative politics. I am here for discussion and friendship.

Sir, I have not been disrespectful to you at any time and have treated you with the respect you deserve. You have made 6 posts on this forum on this thread and not in any other area of this forum which would indicate that you sir have an agenda (troll?).

You post some old Internet crap as a means of attacking me. This is old and all involved have moved on.

To answer your question no I have yet to meet Great Master Ruan Dong who I respect greatly. All I am seeking is to learn and I have sought out Great Master Ruan Dong and am seeking to bring him to Australia to teach. What is wrong with that? Why must you attempt to ruin my and my students opportunity to link up with this great master of the arts?


Hi Blacktiger,

I hope that he does go down to Oz, it will be great for the promotion of his style. Ruan is a good teacher and a good practitioner.

Hualong

I have been involved within the martial arts in various forms and levels for the past 34 years. I started out training in Shotokan Karate before moving onward to Matsumura Shorin-Ryu and Okinawan Hakutsuruken (White Crane) on Okinawa before "discovering" my true love of Chinese White Crane.

I have been lucky to have undertaken a modest amount of research into White Crane and other arts via various people such as, Sifu Yap Leong, Sifu Erle Montaigue (Dim-Mak), Sifu Paul Wollos, Sifu Gu-Ping, Shifu Lorne Bernard and Sifu Fai.

I have been with Sifu Fai for the past seven and a half years. He is a gentleman who keeps to himself (I can't blame him for this ... just look at all this Internet crap!)

A photo of Sifu Fai and I can be found at the bottom of this page:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/p37.htm

He teaches what he simply calls "Shaolin Baihe" or simply "Shaolin". He gave me his blessing to seek out Great Master Ruan Dong and there are many similarities between that Sifu Fai teaches and the Minghe of Great Master Ruan Dong

With all due respect to Mr Eric Ling, he posted the following concerning Great Master Ruan Dong on Southern Kungfu Net:


No not that Ruan Dong. This is another Ruan Dong that communist China “installed” as the “official” leader of MingHe or Whooping Crane in China after failing to convince overseas Chinese to return.

Ruan Dong is a mainland Fuzhou claiming to be a descendent of Xie Zhong Xian and this is where most of us cannot figure out. Who taught him MingHe ? He is too “young” to a direct student of Xie and in all articles written either about or by him, there is no mention of his lineage.

He is very old now but those who have seen his earlier renditions of MingHe just cannot miss the heavy “Wushu” flavor – the excessive body shaking, the extra mimicking of Crane etc… Picture a mainland player doing Praying Mantis Kung Fu and you’ll know what I mean.

I think for some of us, the biggest issue must be his contribution in the book “He Quan”. His explanation of “MingHe” left many of us puzzled.

Many friends are saying that this is common; check any “traditional” Kung Fu materials from China and disparities are obvious. Not only in White Crane but in many different styles.


Hualong wrote:

You have not answered any questions that were put to you in this thread and you certainly have not dealt with me directly…

Hualong, I have clearly indentified who I am in my posts and where it is I am located. You sir have yet to do so yet you accuse me? Identify yourself, Who are you? Where are you located? Who do you train with? How are you indeed connected to Minghequan? Or are you Jamie Scuffell (as I suspect) using another Internet name to further your sad agenda?

As for posting a PM, they are called "Private Messages" for a reason. I believe the moderator should have something to say about this.

[Minghequan]

Here is a photo of Sifu Fai and I:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/user/binary/mr_fai.jpg

And here is Jamie Scuffell who also goes by "Wei Gui Hao" and "Lu Lu Ke" and who claims to be the inheritor of "Flying Crane".

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/user/binary/lu_lu_ke.jpg

[Mufahok]

I actually went into that website to read what Eric wrote.

He stated very unmistakably that he is reflecting the view of the Fuzhou White Crane community at large.

This is really the situation. Many in traditional Fuzhou Crane are asking this;

Where did Ruan Dong got his MingHe from?

Ruan himself announced that he has no record of any sort of his lineage.

And if you had the opportunity to watch Ruan in his younger days; I got a footage, you cannot help but notice how very Wu-Shu he was.

The fact of the matter is Ruan is popular mainly with westerners. I was told that this could have something to do with Patrick McCarthy; Ruan was mentioned in his book or something like that.

In the course of talking to his Sihing, I was also told that Eric is organizing some kind of a “Traditional MA” event next year.

One of the programs is a “Southern Fukien/Fuzhou White Crane Day”. This particular item is endorsed by the “World Fuzhou Association” – this is an international grouping of the Fuzhou clan. Yes the Fuzhou meets once a year on a roundtable basis. The last meeting was held in Sarawak and the current Chairman is a Sarawak Fuzhou.

Guess what? Ruan is on the invite list - a family gathering of MingHe.

So I guess we will all know the truth then when Ruan and Eric meet.

And speaking of truth;

- You stated you have never met Ruan.
- You have never sent any video to Ruan for viewing.
- Your only contact is via a student.

Yet we find this in your website:-

Great Master Ruan Dong of Calling Crane Fuzhou, China said: "Ron Goninan has strong Chi. Best wishes to you and your family and continued hard work."


So tell us, how this works?

Your student described your "chi" to Ruan ?

You sent Chi telepathically?

Or are you just "blowing Chi" in your website!

I really don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish. You got a bunch of incoherent cut/paste mumbo-jumbo in your website proclaiming to be MingHe.

And in the Southernkungfu forum which you so kindly pointed, I found you talking about your 1 form/1 principle paradigm of training?

IS THIS EVEN MINGHE?

I got it from the highest of White Crane authorities; I spoke to several Fuzhou Crane masters here and they all said this could only be Eric’s family “Fuzhou Ancestral Crane”.

So are you saying you’re “Ancestral Crane” now???

Minghequan, believe me when I say this; there are many who have spent years in proper BaiHe Quan training and they all know you are talking rubbish in your website and forums.

This is not politics, this is the TRUTH.

And as long as you don’t understand this, you will never be accepted in the White Crane circles.

[Minghequan]

Thanks for your response but again I state that I'll not enter into any negative politics. It achieves nothing and only lowers the arts.

It is good to know that Great Master Ruan Dong will have the chance to demonstrate his art. I care little for the politics of who is right or wrong regarding White Crane. All I know is from what I have seen of Great Master Ruan Dong's White Crane is that I like it a great, great deal. It has struck a chord in me. To me it appears very beautiful and internal and seems to match in with my personal belief of what I feel White Crane should be. I sincerely hope to learn more of this fascinating art in the future.

As for me as I have CLEARLY stated ... I am just a seeker, not an "expert". I have not stated that I am an expert of anything. I do not want to be anything other than I am ... a seeker. I am not seeking acceptance by others, I just seek to learn, seek and to be happy in life ... which I am.

My student passed on several items to Great Master Ruan Dong concerning myself including some photo's etc and that is when he made the comments to pass on to me. It was very kind of him to do so but I did not seek out his endorsement. Nothing mystical or magical!

Thanks again for your response. I have learnt a great deal from your posts. Thank you.

I wish you all the best.:)

[Hualong]

Hi, :)

I will not enter into negative politics. I am here for discussion and friendship.

Reply,
I’ll translate that into English for you,
“I will not enter into politics if it involves me”
Why don’t you read some of your posts.

Sir, I have not been disrespectful to you at any time and have treated you with the respect you deserve. You have made 6 posts on this forum on this thread and not in any other area of this forum, which would indicate that you sir, have an agenda (troll?).

Reply,
You have no understanding of that word. You were claiming to teach Minghequan, yet you cannot answer any questions put to you.
You claim Ruan Dong as your Sifu, yet you have never met him.
You learn from videos and books and then call yourself a Minghequan Sifu, that’s your respect for the art right there…

You post some old Internet crap as a means of attacking me. This is old and all involved have moved on.

Reply,
You have obviously not moved on, you are still doing the same thing. So YES it is relevant.

To answer your question no I have yet to meet Great Master Ruan Dong who I respect greatly. All I am seeking is to learn and I have sought out Great Master Ruan Dong and am seeking to bring him to Australia to teach. What is wrong with that? Why must you attempt to ruin my and my students opportunity to link up with this great master of the arts?

Reply,
There you go, feel better now… :) You have never met Ruan Dong…:(
Mr. Goninan you ruin your own chances.

I have been lucky to have undertaken a modest amount of research into White Crane and other arts via various people such as, Sifu Yap Leong, Sifu Erle Montaigue (Dim-Mak), Sifu Paul Wollos, Sifu Gu-Ping, Shifu Lorne Bernard and Sifu Fai.

Reply,
They are all good masters, Yap Leong (wuzuquan), Erle Montaigue (Taiji), Paul Wollos (Feeding Crane), Gu Ping (Wushu), Lorne Bernard (Flying Crane), and Fai (Wushu).
How many of these have you trained with?

I have been with Sifu Fai for the past seven and a half years. He is a gentleman who keeps to himself (I can't blame him for this ... just look at all this Internet crap!)

Reply,
Sifu Fai is a student of Gu Ping, he is not White Crane.

He teaches what he simply calls "Shaolin Baihe" or simply "Shaolin". He gave me his blessing to seek out Great Master Ruan Dong and there are many similarities between that Sifu Fai teaches and the Minghe of Great Master Ruan Dong

Reply,
Sifu Fai studied with Gu Ping who teaches Shaolin Wushu (a very good practitioner may I add), are you saying that Ruan Dong’s Crane is like WUSHU? :eek:

With all due respect to Mr Eric Ling, he posted the following concerning Great Master Ruan Dong on Southern Kungfu Net:

Reply,
I am not going to put the post up as it is already posted above.
On the whole he is right, Ruan does over emphasis shaking. The mainland and overseas Minghequan systems differ quite a bit. When I first learnt Minghequan the emphasis was to make the shake big so one could understand the energy better and then over time the shake became smaller and smaller. Overseas Minghe is more internal then the mainland style and the shaking energy is very subtle but very powerful.
But hey, you should know that…

Hualong, I have clearly indentified who I am in my posts and where it is I am located. You sir have yet to do so yet you accuse me? Identify yourself, Who are you? Where are you located? Who do you train with? How are you indeed connected to Minghequan? Or are you Jamie Scuffell (as I suspect) using another Internet name to further your sad agenda?

Reply,
First of all I am not accusing you, you said all that I posted yourself, on other forums, therefore it is not an accusation. IT IS A FACT…
My name is Jonathan Tendel and I am sorry but I will not have you harassing my Sifu like you do the rest. If I tell you my teacher you will only claim his lineage like you do the rest. This is one of the main reasons that many Asian masters choose to be a bit reclusive. As for my connection to Minghe, I have studied with various teachers and still do to this day.
Now for the third time. I have never met the man.
You have this paranoia that if anyone questions you, they are Jamie Scuffell or Eric Ling.

As for posting a PM, they are called "Private Messages" for a reason. I believe the moderator should have something to say about this.

Reply,
Then do not write petty politics to me.

Mr. Goninan, I am not picking on you, I did not come to this forum to argue with you as I have stated above. But don’t tell lies about your association with Ruan Dong when there are people on the forum who have studied under him.
And if your going to claim your teacher is Ruan Dong and that you are a Minghequan teacher you should be able to prove it.

And now you call me a TROLL…
See there you go again with petty insults,

I have one question. Why are you signing your emails Gan Ren Nu? :rolleyes:

Don’t tell me, I already know…:eek:

Posted by Ron Goninan on http://iaomas1.proboards14.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1145151143&page=1

Find out what your name is in Chinese and what it means.

Go Here:

http://www.mandarintools.com/chinesename.html

It is simple and easy to use!

The site also gives you the correct pronounciation if you click on each name.

My name is Gan Ren Nu. Ren is benevolent. Nu is exert, strive, make effort.

What's your name?

:eek:

Minghequan, let me say it so you might understand it better,

Quack,quack,quack, quack, quack, quack,quack…:(

Hualong:)

[Blacktiger]

Oh man this is crazy, there have also been White Crane Articles in "Blitz" an Australian martial arts mag from these guys.

:confused:

[Mufahok]

Okay that’s it.

I am going to contact Sifu Ling and ask for his side of the story.

I hope to be accepted as Sifu Chen’s disciple and that would make Sifu Ling my kung fu uncle.

Ruan is part of Sifu Ling’s White Crane family and I think Sifu Ling would not stand idly by knowing that Ruan’s name is dragged through mud by Goninan.

Hualong, on behalf of Fuzhou MingHe;

THANK YOU.

[Mashi]

Minghequan, let me say it so you might understand it better,

Quack,quack,quack, quack, quack, quack,quack…:(

Hualong:)

I just spat coffee all over my monitor. :p

Mashi

[Minghequan]

Hualong,

You and I have never met yet you attack me on this forum. What have I ever done to you?

Why must you ruin my opportuinity to train with Great Master Ruan Dong and to learn his art which is all I seek to do? Why?

Why are you making this so personal?

Sifu Fai by the way is not a student of Sifu Gu-Ping. Sorry.

By your own words may your true character be known.

I am here for non-political, non-personal discussion and to learn and it is on this platform that I will continue.

I will not enter into politics of any kind. I'm sorry.

If I have offended anyone with my posts then I humbly apologise. My only intent is to learn more about White Crane and to link up with other White Crane practitioners and to promote this wonderful art that is why I was so pleased to link up with Great Master Ruan Dong which you now seem hell-bent on sadly destroying my only chance.

I apologise to anyone whom I have caused offence to.

Sorry but I have placed you on my ignore list

[Hualong]

Sifu Fai by the way is not a student of Sifu Gu-Ping. Sorry.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-20802.html

Posted by Paihequan (Ron Goninan) on E-budo forum. 08-26-2003, 09:27 PM
I have had a fairly interesting if not scattered background in the area of the martial arts commencing in January 1970 in the art of Shotokan Karatedo through to the time spent with Mr. Yabiku Takaya of Okinawa pursuing his Okinawan Tsuruken (two weeks in October 1995), Sifu Gu-Ping of Guangzhou Province, China and his student Mr. Fai and onwards to the present time.

You said that he was yourself…:eek:

Maybe it slipped your mind.:rolleyes:

Ron I found this and to be honest I could not believe your comment.

http://www.anyboard.net/rec/royaldragontaitzu/posts/310.html

Posted by: shihfu
01/13/2006, 16:04:12

What is the history of southern Tai Zhu style and what are the names of its forms how does it relate to Ngo Cho Kun and Fukien White Crane ? Here is a link to Tai Zhu style
http://www.geocities.com/kungfu_galaxy/Southern/TaiChor.html

I don't know all that much about Tai Zhu but the postures seen on that site look kinda off to me!


Do you have any idea who that is?
That master you are referring to is very famous.. his name is Quek Yong Hor (mandarin ‘Gou’)
What qualifies you to say such a thing? :mad:

You really have no idea who that is do you, or do you? :rolleyes:

Hualong:confused:

[Minghequan]

Hualong,

Sir, I was referring to one Gian Lencioni and not Quek Yong Hor, sorry. I have since come to respect Gian for being up front and open with his views and also the manner in which he reacts when people attack him. He is a fine martial artist.

Sir, there is more than one Mr. Fai. Sorry. The person in mention is Sifu Fai of Shaolin Baihe shown here:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/user/binary/mr_fai.jpg

You are making this a personal issue as you post on this section of the forum but will not write to me directly via my email which I have given you. Your politic are obvious. You have some style of a grudge against me and are doing your best to put me down. How terribly saddening. I hope that you eventually find happiness in your life and I will pray for you. Regardless of your on-gonig negativity, I offer you my respect and civility. I wish you well.

You are being political and attempting to attack me personally as you are trying to scrape up every thing you can against me. You must lead a very vacuous life if I am your main concern.

Reputation in our society is linked to income, ego and power; it is not a human right. This means one can be a cfriendishly political self-appointed authority on life and in this case the martial arts who daily gives his so called opinion on others rightly or wrongly.

I simply ask to be treated with civility as I attempt my best to treat others (yes even you sir) with due respect.

[Mufahok]

“What is the history of southern Tai Zhu style and what are the names of its forms how does it relate to Ngo Cho Kun and Fukien White Crane ? Here is a link to Tai Zhu style
http://www.geocities.com/kungfu_gala...n/TaiChor.html

I don't know all that much about Tai Zhu but the postures seen on that site look kinda off to me!”


Goninan, did you really make that statement???

That is Grand Master Quek Yong Hor, one of the MOST RESPECTED masters of Fukien boxing. Revered as the most important master of Nan TaiZhu in many parts of Asia; considered by many to be of the same level with Ven. Sek. His descendents number in the thousands, yes thousands. Among them is none other than Sifu Teo Choon Teck, who for many years trained countless Lei Tai champions in Singapore.

Sifu Teo is a very close friend of Fujian White Crane Boxing’s Pan Family and his knowledge is sought by many even in mainland China.

WHAT QUALIFIES YOU TO MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT!!!

Now I am certain;

YOU ARE A FRAUD, A CON AND A QUACK.

As a ethnic Chinese, I am ashamed that we got a scum bug like you claiming to do Chinese art!!!

[Blacktiger]

Oh dear :confused:

[FunkySage]

Okay everyone... lets have a reality check before the mud slinging continues.

The truth is, the year is 2006 and the internet is well established and there is a lot of information movement going around. It is also true there are people out there who want fame, respect and money. It is the natural way of things that someone will come along and steal something claim it as their own and try to gain these things from it. Although I haven't got an example I would happily place a bet that this has happened since the dawn of human civilisation. It is a negative part of human culture that we have to accept.

With regards to chinese martial arts, in the "old days" if people thought you were a fake, it would be up on the lei tai for a punch up and basically whoever lost was wrong. (Guess you are lucky to live in more civilised times Mr Goninan with the number of enemies you make, you'd either be constantly eating dirt or the best thing that ever claimed to be white crane.)

Anyway what it boils down to is, unless you are going to keep a style completely secret with no video footage and teaching in closed schools with handpicked students, people like Mr Goninan will keep popping up. There are probably more like him claiming to be white crane but have the sense to keep quiet and just do their own thing.

We cannot protect everyone in the whole world from charlatans like Mr Goninan. We must accept it happens and just go on protecting what we know and make sure it gets passed on to the next generation in the correct way.

As with regards to charlatans, its impossible to stop them. Best thing is just laugh at them, and if people believe him so what, do you honestly care what other people think when you have the real stuff. Personally I don't, its all hot air although very entertainng hot air. People who are experienced in CMA will be able to see whether they have it or not. Will Mr Goninan be able to perform forms with correct use of the waist and intention. Probably not but even if he does, Good luck to him, because at the end of the day he will never have what you have.

[B-Rad]

Bull$hit. Accepting liars and ignoring them will only make it worse. Of course, make sure they really are thieves and liars and it's not just misunderstanding before going on the attack (do your homework), but if you come across someone stealing your stuff and you feel you can prove it, you should tell people. Ignoring it just to avoid a bit of stress seems a bit cowardly to me. There's nothing wrong with being angry as long as it's focused in the right direction and you don't allow it to control you.

[FunkySage]

B-Rad, Ron Goninan has been around a fair while, not just here but on other forums. People keep speaking out about him but he's still around like the turd that won't flush.

What are you going to do? Go around and beat him up? That'll get you in trouble with the law.

Constantly follow all his internet posts and track him down? Well if you want to waste your whole life doing that then OK do it, but personally I think there are better things to spend with your time than tracking down losers.

What happens if 10 or 15 Groninans pop up at the same time? You going to keep track of all of them? Not possible buddy. Leave them in their fantasy world. The main thing is you don't let the real stuff die out, enough of it is disappearing already. Let Ron and his friends say what they want, its not cowardly its pragmatic.

Oh and I never said anything about accepting liars. What I said is you gotta accept that people like this always pop up and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

[B-Rad]

Exposing a liar isn't any more of a waste of time than arguing about how big a waste of time exposing liars is :p Frauds do get caught and stopped, or at the very least, less people are taken in and hurt by conmen because someone exposed them. Just because someone keeps poping up online or elsewhere, it doesn't mean that actions like telling the truth about a career conman can't make a difference in other people's lives. The truth is, it's NOT impossible to stop charletians. It may be difficult, but it's been done before.

[Minghequan]

Thank You all for your views.

There is nothing wrong with seeking and researching an art and in seeking out a authentic teacher of same.

What is it you feel you have achieved by this thread other than to call out names and lower yourselves.. This thread (like many others) will die out and be replaced by others. In the general scheme of things, you will have achieved very little other than to show your true colours as people.Its all only word like so many thousands of words written in so many forums. Such is the nature of the Internet. I'll still be around, still seeking out my own truths and I'll still be happy long after this thread is dead and done with.

I'll bet that when this thread is done, you'll not see "Hualong" post anymore on any subject on this respected board!

The truth is there are far more important things in my life such as my family to continue to be involved in such negativity.

I am not a fraud , I AM however a seeker and regardless of all the name calling, the jumping up and down, the sad and pathetic smear campaign and all the ego-related politics this is what I will remain .... a seeker.

You can call me what you like, the fact remains that I will still be seeking and still be happy as I have this wonderful thing .... its called a life!

I have never said I was an "expert" of anything! I am simply a seeker, a real person and not some high and mighty "self-proclaimed "martial artist". I have the support of some wonderful people. I don't make claims to know anything about the martial arts. You see I am simply a seeker and am still learning.

I thank you all for your views as always I learn from others. It has been interesting and insightful into the nature of certain people.

My wife has read this thread and she is right when she advised I simply walk away from it and place my energy in my own pursuits and leave the politics and ego to the politicians.

I'll not engage in any more of your politics and let this thread die a natural death. Thank you all once again. Be happy with your life.

[B-Rad]

I don't know if your a fraud or not, but people have asked some good questions about you and how Ruan Dong fits into your school/org. that you never answered, and you do often attack another person (this Jamie Scuffel guy) when he wasn't even mentioned. You seem to be fine when it comes to discussing "politics" except when you're on the negative end of it. If you're legit and just trying to learn like everyone else, that's awesome! But acting like you're above all of it... not cool. Just because Hualong's new to the board and has something against you, doesn't mean he doesn't bring up some good points!


I have never said I was an "expert" of anything! I am simply a seeker, a real person and not some high and mighty "self-proclaimed "martial artist". I have the support of some wonderful people. I don't make claims to know anything about the martial arts. You see I am simply a seeker and am still learning.
The reality is, when you set up your own school, website, and become a teacher, you're portraying yourself as an expert and it's a way of telling people that you DO have good knowledge about the subject. At least that's how I view it. Maybe some others disagree with me... could be an interesting topic of discussion ;)