Registering Your Hands

[yutyeesam]

I couldn't find a thread on this through a search, but if you know of it, please post the link.

I'm just wondering if registering your hands does a d@mn bit of good? If anything, does it make you more liable in a self defense situation? Or is it worse when the cops find out later that you're a martial arts instructor?

Thanks for any info,
-123

[Judge Pen]

It's stupid. It's a myth. Anything can be a deadly weapon including your hands. I know of no state that requires reqistering them or one that even has an administrative mechanism for "registering".

As far as "making you a target" then any martial artist is a target if they defend themselves.

[David Jamieson]

I couldn't find a thread on this through a search, but if you know of it, please post the link.

I'm just wondering if registering your hands does a d@mn bit of good? If anything, does it make you more liable in a self defense situation? Or is it worse when the cops find out later that you're a martial arts instructor?

Thanks for any info,
-123

yep, second jp's response to that. someone is giving you the old disinfo if you have recently been fed teh malarky about "registering your hands" lol.

no such thing.

[Ray Pina]

It's stupid. It's a myth. Anything can be a deadly weapon including your hands. I know of no state that requires reqistering them or one that even has an administrative mechanism for "registering".

As far as "making you a target" then any martial artist is a target if they defend themselves.


My father took me to register my hands when I got my black belt, Kearny, NJ.... I was 11 and probably had snot running down my nose:(

[BoulderDawg]

:D
I couldn't find a thread on this through a search, but if you know of it, please post the link.

I'm just wondering if registering your hands does a d@mn bit of good? If anything, does it make you more liable in a self defense situation? Or is it worse when the cops find out later that you're a martial arts instructor?

Thanks for any info,
-123

I've heard that one.

I've also heard that if attacked you have to warn your attacker at least three times before using martial arts.:D

Sometimes, after reading some threads on this board, I think people should have to register their computer as a deadly weapon!

[Judge Pen]

My father took me to register my hands when I got my black belt, Kearny, NJ.... I was 11 and probably had snot running down my nose:(

Did you have to register your feet too? How about your elbows? Your broadsword? If you put you hands in your pocket, can you be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon?

Can anyone from NJ confirm this? Seriously, I've read articles debunking this claim. I'd like to confirm if they are (and I am) wrong.

Regardless, what does "registering" yourself accompolish?

Here is one of the articles that I am referring to:

http://ask.yahoo.com/20050331.html

I KNOW that there's no current statute in NJ that requires this. I DOUBT that there ever was. My guess is that Ray's father wanted to be safe after hearing this rumor. I'm sure that the police actually get questions on this one fairly often.

[EarthDragon]

This is absolutly FALSE!
I share my school with a County sheriff and taught hand to hand comabt for the B.P.D. There is no such nor was there ever a law or requirement by any law enforcement or division or public saftey that has such a thing.

Dont believe the hype! And if somebody does say this to you.......... beat them up becuse they dont know $hit

No offence to anyone but thats why I dont have 11 year old black belts. I am from the old school and beleive you must be 18 years of age to hold this (used to be) honnered title.

I saw 2 little girls at the mall last week with pig talis braces and guess what??? TKD black belts. thay had patches on called little tigers class......... this is the problem with American standards and todays BS crap! sorry needed to rant

[yutyeesam]

Okay, thank you guys for the confirmation. It seems like this is a non-issue. However, if a martial arts student uses his stuff in self defense, vs. a martial arts teacher (ie, one who openly teaches to the public and is a public figure), are there a different set of rules that go into play when assessing the damage? Is the teacher (who may or may not be self-proclaimed) any more liable for using excessive force in a self-defense situation than the student? or is it all the same?

There are a lot of gray areas when it comes to MA teachers. Anyone can open a school, with no credentials. There are no real standards, and I'm not saying there should be. But I'm curious to know how the law accounts for the fact that our profession is teaching how to hurt people.

-123

[Scott R. Brown]

In general, if you win the fight someone will try to make you liable many times. If it isnt the law, it will be the loser. Many socio-paths dont mind dominating you, but if you dominate them they whine to their lawyers! You must always consider who you are fighting. It is likely you have more to lose by fighting than a socio-path who gains status by either winning the fight or going to prison, while you may be mostly concerned with supporting your family and not getting permanently injured.

By the way this has happened to me! I won, I was in the right, I was defending my family, I went to jail! Once the bad guy saw what he was up against he pi$$ed his pants and cried all the way to the police. My circumstance was much more complicated than most so this is by no means something I would say will happen to everyone. It is just my experience first hand. Also the guy out weighed me by about 40-60 lbs, but he was a minor. Thought he was pretty tough for about 2 seconds, LOL!!

[EarthDragon]

yutyeesam,

However, if a martial arts student uses his stuff in self defense, vs. a martial arts teacher (ie, one who openly teaches to the public and is a public figure), are there a different set of rules that go into play when assessing the damage? Is the teacher (who may or may not be self-proclaimed) any more liable for using excessive force in a self-defense situation than the student? or is it all the same?

anytime you are a professional in any type of fighting, self defense,
pro wrestling, boxing etc etc, there is the potential for it to be used against you in court. One could say you went beyond reasonable force.

However there is no law that states if you train, teach, are certified or have taken some MA lessons you are somehow more dangerous than your average citizen.

This is not to be confused in litigation where that very thing could make you look more of a threat and judges will look at your profession and figure you have the neccessary judgement and mneas to control yourself in a combat situation.

however again, I got into a fight outside a bar years ago when this guy threw a punch at me, I ducked, punched back then trapped his elbow and broke his arm. I got arrested as did the other guy, a cop witnessed the whole thing and when in handcuffs the police said wow that was a good shot, but howe did you break his arm so easily? I explianed that I that i won a MA school and have been teaching elbow breaks to my students for the whole month and I just reated out of instinct and that I felt really bad about what i did, then he replied well theres nothing illegal about defending yourself....... i was not charged and let go on my own recognisence.

[Judge Pen]

Here is basic advice that I give regarding self-defense as a lawyer and as a marital artist. You are justified in using potentially deadly force only if you can demonstrate a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. If you can't show, objectively not subjectively, that you were in fear of serious bodily injury then you cannot use force in return. You are limited to using similar force in situations.

If a guy shoves you then you probably can't break his leg. If he balls up a fist, then you can and should strike him before he can strike you. If you are trained then your actions will be subject to greater scrutiny by the lawyers that look at this with hind-sight and an agenda. Did you have to break his jaw? Could you have submitted him without causing serious injury? Isnt' that what you are trained to do? Isn't it true that when you got in the moment you were excited and wanted to hurt the guy? Didn't you want to show him not to mess with you? Didn't you go too far in your force? Did you ego push you beyond what was necessary under the circumstances?

These arguments may or may not be persuasive, but you KNOW that you are going to be faced with them. What I would do is as soon as I defended myself in any circumstance, I would call the police and swear out a warrant agasint them for assualt. I don't care if I'm standing over their unconscious body when I make the call. For me to have been justified in defending myself, they would have committed a crime of at least assault. Put them on the defenseive first before they limp home, take pictures of their injuries and call a lawyer.

[Ray Pina]

Did you have to register your feet too? How about your elbows? Your broadsword? If you put you hands in your pocket, can you be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon?

Can anyone from NJ confirm this? Seriously, I've read articles debunking this claim. I'd like to confirm if they are (and I am) wrong.


Oh, I'm not saying I had to... I'm saying ym dad took me. He loved that I trained martial arts. I remember being taken to the Town Hall (which shared residence with the police station at the time) and going up to some window. There certainly could have been some winking involved between my dad and who ever was behind the window.

Town hall was like 3 blocks away, so it wasn't liek going out of the way.

True story.

If there really was some type of file like that, they'd still have it I guess. The town is Kearney, NJ, 07032.

[Judge Pen]

There certainly could have been some winking involved between my dad and who ever was behind the window.

That makes sense. Like I said, I've looked back through NJ statutes and there's no current requirement (and I see no reason to repeal something like that--weird laws stay on the books forever).

[David Jamieson]

If you find that you have been in a conflict and you won and the poilce came etc etc etc.

It's in your best interest to not say anything about martial arts.

If you're arrested just ask for a lawyer and decline to say anything.

common sense.

[Judge Pen]

If you find that you have been in a conflict and you won and the poilce came etc etc etc.

It's in your best interest to not say anything about martial arts.

If you're arrested just ask for a lawyer and decline to say anything.

common sense.

True. Though I would advocate caling the police and implicating him as starting it and you as defending yourself. Be upfront with that and start the record early that you were doning nothing but protecting yourself or those you care about.

[Chief Fox]

Oh, I'm not saying I had to... I'm saying ym dad took me. He loved that I trained martial arts. I remember being taken to the Town Hall (which shared residence with the police station at the time) and going up to some window. There certainly could have been some winking involved between my dad and who ever was behind the window.

Town hall was like 3 blocks away, so it wasn't liek going out of the way.

True story.

If there really was some type of file like that, they'd still have it I guess. The town is Kearney, NJ, 07032.
That's cool. You've got a good dad. :D

[Ray Pina]

Yea. I love him. Lots of years he drove me to karate and waited outside in the car while I trained. He worked hard and I never saw him much, so going to and from class was the time we spent together .... that and taking me to movies like Missing In Action:)

[BoulderDawg]

To start with defending yourself is a little different than getting in an altercation.

I think in the majority of these cases had someone just walked away then nothing would have happened. I've learned that most people are better with their mouth than their fists.

Anyway, when something likes this happens (let's say I was standing over someone with their breath knocked out or a lump on their head) I'm not going to stand around and wait for the police....or for that matter 4-5 of the guys friends to regroup. I'm just casually going to walk away, get in my car and leave. I would have no desire to explain anythng to the police.

[Judge Pen]

An altercation is different, but I'd rather be the one to talk to the police first then have them show up at my house or my job a couple of days later because the other guy has sworn out a warrant.

[Golden Tiger]

Hands: #339229455
Feet: #339229456

That was with the FBI and it has to be renewed every 7 years.:cool:

[Judge Pen]

Hands: #339229455
Feet: #339229456

That was with the FBI and it has to be renewed every 7 years.:cool:

How does one go about doing that and why would you? There's no mention of it on the FBI's website.

[PangQuan]

i found this:

http://archives.stupidquestion.net/sq4402handsasweapons.html

[Golden Tiger]

You have to be a deadly weapon before you can see it...Thats probably why most of you have never got the invite.

Keep working out all you lil grasshoppers, and a registered lethal weapon you will become.:D

[Wong Ying Home]

Pre emptive striking, reasonable force, fear for my life, are all arguments thet need to be raised.

I must agree with judges pen in his approach here, that from a leagel point of view, his comments will serve you best

[kwaichang]

When the martial arts were integrated post WW II, the service men that continued to study martial arts , Atemi Waza , Ju Jitsu, Judo Ko Budo etc to add credibility to what they had done in Japan stretched the truth some by saying that when they reached Black Belt they had to register with the Police. Most of the martial arts in Japan were taught at the Kodokan and if you received your belt from a reputable instructor you were registered with them. This story was stretched with the Hollywood movies such as In Like Flint and James Bond and others of the 60's This is my understanding as it was taught to me by my Japanese Sensei in the 70's KC

[_William_]

I had to register my looks, because I was too much of a lady killer.

[Judge Pen]

You have to be a deadly weapon before you can see it...Thats probably why most of you have never got the invite.

Keep working out all you lil grasshoppers, and a registered lethal weapon you will become.:D


*Cough--Bullsh!t--Cough* :D

KC, How's the training. Let me know when you want to come over and watch some kung fu flicks.

I had heard that explanation before too. I still have not found any documented evidence that this is required on the federal, state or municipal level anywhere in the U.S.

[Judge Pen]

Pre emptive striking, reasonable force, fear for my life, are all arguments thet need to be raised.

I must agree with judges pen in his approach here, that from a leagel point of view, his comments will serve you best

Thanks. If someone balls their fists and takes an aggressive stance (and they look as if they have the physicaltiy to hurt me) then I'm going to pre-emptively strike. It's easier to explain that you were afraid that they could and would have hurt you but for your actions if you call the police and take charges out against them first. (pre-emptive on both fronts).

[Scott R. Brown]

Amongst Peace Officers (in CA again;) ) a suspect taking a "Threatening Stance" is justifcation for physical intervention. The amount of force used must be accordance with the level of the threat. However, controling force is always going to be greater than what appears to be necessary because to dominate the suspect is to ensure less resistance.

In general when threatened one must have specific factors present in order to physically respond:

1- A clear and imminent threat must be present. That is if the person is 30 feet away and without a weapon and states they are going to kick your a$$, but do not make the attempt to approach you, that is NOT an imminent threat. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that a person is capable of moving 30 feet in 2-3 seconds. This fact has been used to justify some shootings because the aggressor was moving towards the defender thus creating an imminent threat where fear of great bodily injury or life was established.

2- The person must actually have the means to carry out the threat. If an 80 year old woman or an 8 year old child says they are going to kick my a$$ and the threat is imminent I may not respond with unreasonable force because they do not have the ability to actually carry out their threat.

[David Jamieson]

BRRRRRAAAAADDDDOOOOOCCCCCKKKKKK!!!!!!!!


hahahaha, those mia movies were great and hilarious!
good times.

Chuck Norris . His tears kill cancer, only thing is, he never cries .

[kwaichang]

Judge, Training is going good I have started back running couldnt do it for a while as I hurt my foot 1.5 years ago maybe the weight will just melt off. LOst your number call me or e-mail me with it wanted to call this week. BTW I have a form from the Secret Service and Interpol to register your hands as deadly weapons , want a copy ? As we get older we should register our flatulance as a deadly weapon KC:)

[TenTigers]

Here it is in a nutshell. When guys were stationed over in Okinawa during the Korean War, some of the guys who took hand to hand, were getting drunk on shore leave and tearing up the town, wreaking havoc on the locals. These guys were "registered" with the MP's and local constables-not because they were deadly, but because they were jerks. Of courese the story changed somewhat when they got home. Hey, we've all met this guy-my first encounter was in my college dorms. The guy from a different town, you don't know he's a jerk-yet, and he has a story. They all do. The guy I met was a member of The Pagans MC (no, he wasn't) was a practitioner of some deadly Martial Art-he even struck a pose with cool (stupid) three finger eagle claw somethings. Even claimed he knew my girlfriend back home. He had happened to be from her High School, so when I spoke to her, I got the lowdown on this loser. Total b.s. je was basically a geek in High School. I run into these guys from time to time-guys with some story, totally full of it and talking to me as if I wouldn't know the difference. Ninja, please.

[johnyk]

They told me that it's $120 dollars per hand. If I regester both hands it's $200, they give you a discount. How ever I must his with both arms at least once if both are regestered, other wise I can be successfuly sued.

Also I can't hit with my feet, knees, elbows, head, etc, if only my hands are regestered.

Prior to striking an opponent in self defense situation, I must present my black belt and my picture ID attached to it.

I must also punch into the air three times as a warning. My friend was witnessed throwing only two air-punches and now he is in jail for defensive assult with deadly weapon. If he did not throw those two punches he would have been in jail for life.
P.S. don't forget to dictate them their rights.